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Official TVD comments on Hard Rock

canecrazy23 said:
Here's a perfect example of a young fan who didn't go to OB games.
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I started going to games in 97 so yes I did go to OB games..obviously didn't go to OB games in the 80' or early 90'.
Are you trying to say we had great attendance at the OB because that would be false.
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
They blocked last year? We could not run the ball. Drops were pervasive the first half of last season. It changed when Harley stepped up and finally took a more on field leadership position. Even Rambo had the dropsy. He did have a big game against Michigan State especially since they were playing bailout zone and it was pitch and catch King to Rambo. Mallory played well down the stretch but was struggling the first half of the season.
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harley was good the year before under likens his first season. go back to it.

rambo sucked at OU and got benched for dropping the ball. he magically improved here.

the offense shifted once TVD got in there bc we played to his strengths too.

lashlee isnt a good run concept guy. gattis has better run concepts. Mario and mirabal are also responsible for why we run the ball well too bc if you haven't noticed the OL is well improved thanks to them. either way, enjoy your boy. im done w this bull**** coach saving you guys all do every ******* time.
 
hoops156 said:
do you even watch other teams? do you know what Rambo was doing at OU? do you know why he left? he was inconsistent and not good there. he got benched for not being good.

he wasn't Addison coming over and picking up where he left off winning awards.

on top of that, likens had Harley improving as a WR. Harley wasn't good under Dugans and the Penn state bum. pope actually had his best season under likens and we all know pope isnt good (hes not even playing at JSU).

Rambo turned his career around here.

im not saying our WRs are good. im saying they can be coached better as a unit. the entire room sucks right now. the issues they had go back to spring and are still the same. ask cribby what they looked like in camp back in the spring.

we obviously need better WR talent here, but we also need better coaching from their position group but somehow gattis as a WR coach now can do no wrong? even his best supporters will tell you hes not getting it done as a WR coach right now and thats key - right. now. it can change later on.
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So Rambo was getting bad WR coaching at OU?
 
Pentagon Cane said:
But not against anybody with a pulse. From my advantage point against Clemson regardless of King getting murdered nobody got separation the whole game. The only time was Wiggins on a 50/50 ball where he could have made a play but didn't.

The knock on Rambo at OU was hands but nobody denied the kid had talent at the college level. Sometimes a change is good and it did him good. Not like Riley could not scheme nor recruit talent and develop it. Same with Hartley which was focus and maturity. He stepped up second half of 21. Everybody else on roster was 4th or 5th options. They benefitted from Rambo, Harley and Mallory.

I have issues with what Gattis is doing from a passing game perspective. Quite a few actually, but even if we run more RPO and attack outside the hashes with what remains on roster, I'm not sure we have a viable #1 or #2. But to your point, Gattis is going to have to scheme up what he has on roster. Is he capable? My fear is no.

I will give Durkin credit. His kids did a good job with matchup zone and passing off in zone coverage, which is remarkable with 2 kids suspended and 2 kids tossed. Their communication was impressive. I'll take their DB coach.

A running quarterback would have had a 100 yards because there were lanes to tuck and run.
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we couldn't pass the ball on southern miss. we couldn't pass on atm. we didnt do much on Bethune.

we also four stars in our WR room. somehow they're not good at all. none of them can improve within 8 months? come on now. they're not 1 star kids.
 
Empirical Cane said:
I appreciate the update.

I perhaps needed a refresher from my 4-years there as a student.

I just don't recall the student section, as per my original point, being so lightly filled "back in the day" when I was a Rathskellar OG.
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No worries. I wasn't a Rat OG but I certainly spent my fair share of time there on thursday nights as a student from 89-93. But even then during the 58 game home winning streak, you were still looking at 5k students at most. Even if you are only getting half that now, you are only talking a very small number related to total capacity. The attendance problem is not a student problem and it's not a location or stadium problem.
 
hoops156 said:
rambo was not good there and got passed up.

you down want to believe me then go ask the number of football guys on this board.
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I know....just drilling down on why he wasn't good there when by all accounts they had a good WR coach and he turned his career around here.
 
Torocane said:
So Rambo was getting bad WR coaching at OU?
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I mean - **** OU did have some duds there even w how great Riley is - Jadon Hasselwood isnt a no name talent and he struggled there. for the most part, they produced kids w Riley as the coach. when were talking about an entire room not getting it - maybe look at the teacher. apparently, you think its all on the players and no blame is placed on their sole position coach. again, if cooney were the position coach and you saw this same exact play from the group - you still protect him like hes your kid? nah you crush him.

likens was able to elevate the entire room from their crap (pope sucked and still had his productive seasons under likens), harley was bad before likens got here, Rambo was a cast off at OU and somehow became a record breaker w lashlee likens. thats a lot of improvement for guys who were written off here or elsewhere by previous staffs.
 
hoops156 said:
I mean - **** OU did have some duds there even w how great Riley is - Jadon Hasselwood isnt a no name talent and he struggled there. for the most part, they produced kids w Riley as the coach. when were talking about an entire room not getting it - maybe look at the teacher. apparently, you think its all on the players and no blame is placed on their sole position coach. again, if cooney were the position coach and you saw this same exact play from the group - you still protect him like hes your kid? nah you crush him.
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I don't recall ever saying that "no blame is placed on the sole position coach" I simply asked you about Rambo. That's a lot of projection on your part.
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
But not against anybody with a pulse. From my advantage point against Clemson regardless of King getting murdered nobody got separation the whole game. The only time was Wiggins on a 50/50 ball where he could have made a play but didn't.

The knock on Rambo at OU was hands but nobody denied the kid had talent at the college level. Sometimes a change is good and it did him good. Not like Riley could not scheme nor recruit talent and develop it. Same with Hartley which was focus and maturity. He stepped up second half of 21. Everybody else on roster was 4th or 5th options. They benefitted from Rambo, Harley and Mallory.

I have issues with what Gattis is doing from a passing game perspective. Quite a few actually, but even if we run more RPO and attack outside the hashes with what remains on roster, I'm not sure we have a viable #1 or #2. But to your point, Gattis is going to have to scheme up what he has on roster. Is he capable? My fear is no.

I will give Durkin credit. His kids did a good job with matchup zone and passing off in zone coverage, which is remarkable with 2 kids suspended and 2 kids tossed. Their communication was impressive. I'll take their DB coach.

A running quarterback would have had a 100 yards because there were lanes to tuck and run.
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we scored 9 points against ATM even w the yardage control and first down control.

we scored 30 points on southern miss including 10 at halftime.

we haven't done much so far against teams either.

our most improved unit is the OL and we know who to thank for that - hint hes done it everywhere hes been
 
Torocane said:
I don't recall ever saying that "no blame is placed on the sole position coach" I simply asked you about Rambo. That's a lot of projection on your part.
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rambo wasn't good at OU and got benched for it. he had a rep as dropping balls. what happened here?

like I said, you give the benefit of a doubt when youre producing high level receivers in your system yearly when 1 or 2 flop. when its your entire room, you got some issues beyond the roster.
 
Torocane said:
I started going to games in 97 so yes I did go to OB games..obviously didn't go to OB games in the 80' or early 90'.
Are you trying to say we had great attendance at the OB because that would be false.
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Really. That’s what you got from my post.

I was saying the exact opposite.
 
hoops156 said:
I mean - **** OU did have some duds there even w how great Riley is - Jadon Hasselwood isnt a no name talent and he struggled there. for the most part, they produced kids w Riley as the coach. when were talking about an entire room not getting it - maybe look at the teacher. apparently, you think its all on the players and no blame is placed on their sole position coach. again, if cooney were the position coach and you saw this same exact play from the group - you still protect him like hes your kid? nah you crush him.

likens was able to elevate the entire room from their crap (pope sucked and still had his productive seasons under likens), harley was bad before likens got here, Rambo was a cast off at OU and somehow became a record breaker w lashlee likens. thats a lot of improvement for guys who were written off here or elsewhere by previous staffs.
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I'm not defending Grattis as sole position coach...I do know that this is not his first time as a WR coach...he was that Alabama I believe and honestly I don't know if he was good or bad but there should be some sort of track record there...correct?
 
Just for historical reference, using post-1983 as a guideline, here was the avg. attendance:

OB capacity 75,500 (1984-1990)
-Marquee Games (e.g: rivalries, top 25 opponents):
67,281 (89% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
43,108 (57% capacity)

OB capacity 74,712 (1991-1993)
-Marquee Games:
74,968 (100+% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
49,575 (66% capacity)

OB capacity 74,476 (1994-2002)
-Marquee Games:
68,536 (92% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
39,472 (53% capacity)

OB capacity 72,319 (2003-2007)
-Marquee Games:
59,773 (83% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
44,995 (62% capacity)

Compared To

Dolphin/LS/SLS capacity 74,916 (2008-2014)
-Marquee Games:
59,411 (79% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
46,446 (62% capacity)

SLS/HRS capacity 64,982 (2015-present)
-Marquee Games:
50,545* (78% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
53,000* (82% capacity)
*Did not include Covid year

Take from this what you will, but it appears SLS has been a better venue for non-marquee games than the OB, but the OB was by far a better home field for big games, & that was pretty consistent, even during the lean years (95-99 & 04-07)

But, it also appears a 55-60k stadiumw/ an ability to expand by 8k is the perfect fit for us vs. a 65k+ capacity. Even the famed 2017 game had a shade over 65K.

Something else to note: The reason HRS doesn’t feel like a home venue is not only the color scheme, but it’s the schematics. Remember; we were all juiced when the stadium was renovated & seats were removed, but this stadium’s design doesn’t fit the collegiate feel. It’s why it’s a perfect venue for The World Cup. When the Chargers played at Home Depot Field in Carson for its temporary home, sure it was a much smaller stadium than a traditional NFL field, but it was so far away that it didn’t give LAC any home field advantage due to schematics.

The OB when it rocked, it rocked b/c of how it was designed. It was an extremely intimidating place to play. Even the crowds were sparse, it still felt like a home game. When I see our crowd at SLS, 50k be damned, it don’t look, or sound like a home field. ND & VT in 2017? Yes, but that’s a 2 game anomaly vs. 14 yrs of data.
 
Rellyrell said:
Just for historical reference, using post-1983 as a guideline, here was the avg. attendance:

OB capacity 75,500 (1984-1990)
-Marquee Games (e.g: rivalries, top 25 opponents):
67,281 (89% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
43,108 (57% capacity)

OB capacity 74,712 (1991-1993)
-Marquee Games:
74,968 (100+% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
49,575 (66% capacity)

OB capacity 74,476 (1994-2002)
-Marquee Games:
68,536 (92% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
39,472 (53% capacity)

OB capacity 72,319 (2003-2007)
-Marquee Games:
59,773 (83% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
44,995 (62% capacity)

Compared To

Dolphin/LS/SLS capacity 74,916 (2008-2014)
-Marquee Games:
59,411 (79% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
46,446 (62% capacity)

SLS/HRS capacity 64,982 (2015-present)
-Marquee Games:
50,545* (78% capacity)
-Non Marquee Games:
53,000* (82% capacity)
*Did not include Covid year

Take from this what you will, but it appears SLS has been a better venue for non-marquee games than the OB, but the OB was by far a better home field for big games, & that was pretty consistent, even during the lean years (95-99 & 04-07)

But, it also appears a 55-60k stadiumw/ an ability to expand by 8k is the perfect fit for us vs. a 65k+ capacity. Even the famed 2017 game had a shade over 65K.

Something else to note: The reason HRS doesn’t feel like a home venue is not only the color scheme, but it’s the schematics. Remember; we were all juiced when the stadium was renovated & seats were removed, but this stadium’s design doesn’t fit the collegiate feel. It’s why it’s a perfect venue for The World Cup. When the Chargers played at Home Depot Field in Carson for its temporary home, sure it was a much smaller stadium than a traditional NFL field, but it was so far away that it didn’t give LAC any home field advantage due to schematics.

The OB when it rocked, it rocked b/c of how it was designed. It was an extremely intimidating place to play. Even the crowds were sparse, it still felt like a home game. When I see our crowd at SLS, 50k be damned, it don’t look, or sound like a home field. ND & VT in 2017? Yes, but that’s a 2 game anomaly vs. 14 yrs of data.
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its HRS not SLS anymore. the new renos do a better job at keeping sound in. it was loud vs Tech in 2017 in the rain and it wasn't filled by any means esp when it was pouring.
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
But not against anybody with a pulse. From my advantage point against Clemson regardless of King getting murdered nobody got separation the whole game. The only time was Wiggins on a 50/50 ball where he could have made a play but didn't.

The knock on Rambo at OU was hands but nobody denied the kid had talent at the college level. Sometimes a change is good and it did him good. Not like Riley could not scheme nor recruit talent and develop it. Same with Hartley which was focus and maturity. He stepped up second half of 21. Everybody else on roster was 4th or 5th options. They benefitted from Rambo, Harley and Mallory.

I have issues with what Gattis is doing from a passing game perspective. Quite a few actually, but even if we run more RPO and attack outside the hashes with what remains on roster, I'm not sure we have a viable #1 or #2. But to your point, Gattis is going to have to scheme up what he has on roster. Is he capable? My fear is no.

I will give Durkin credit. His kids did a good job with matchup zone and passing off in zone coverage, which is remarkable with 2 kids suspended and 2 kids tossed. Their communication was impressive. I'll take their DB coach.

A running quarterback would have had a 100 yards because there were lanes to tuck and run.
Click to expand...
Clemson isn’t fair to use because our line was super young and terrible. That’s wasn‘t route concepts that was getting destroyed on both lines.They lined up and blitzed the A gaps. Now to be fair I ripped the **** out of him for that game like I have Gattis but the OL situations are night and day different. JG’s OL gave his qb’s time to pass , made pretty good pockets and we ran the ball. The biggest reason for that is Mario and Mirabal working miracles. That’s why they’re widely considered the best at teaching that group. Btw A&M was nowhere in that Clemsons defenses world. That’s was an awesome veteran group. Durken is no Venerables either.
 
hoops156 said:
its HRS not SLS anymore. the new renos do a better job at keeping sound in. it was loud vs Tech in 2017 in the rain and it wasn't filled by any means esp when it was pouring.
Click to expand...

Ummm, u did see me say SLS/HRS, right? Lol

It was SLS in 2015 & HRS in 2016, but the seating capacity changed in 2015 to what it is now.

Edit: did u actually read my post or was this a knee jerk reaction? Also, per attendance record, 2017 v. VT had a capacity of 63,932 or 98% capacity 🤷🏾‍♂️
 
Torocane said:
I'm not defending Grattis as sole position coach...I do know that this is not his first time as a WR coach...he was that Alabama I believe and honestly don't know if he was good or bad but there should be some sort of track record there...correct?
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he was at Bama for one season but they were getting elite at that position before and after him and he had no hand in coaching their most recent run of elite WRs including the most recent transfer from OSU. he didnt develop Smith, Waddle, Ruggs, Williams, Metchie.

he didnt really produce much NFL talent at Michigan but I gotta go back and check.

Likens produced two NFL (I think first or seoucnd rounders at WR) from ASU.
 
Rellyrell said:
Ummm, u did see me say SLS/HRS, right? Lol

It was SLS in 2015 & HRS in 2016, but the seating capacity changed in 2015 to what it is now.
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yes I know. and yes I know we got rid of the corners in the stadium and reduced capacity. 64 is about perfect for us and the fins. we aren't a sports town. we will never fill anything weekly.
 
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