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Transfer arguments on Bleacher Report

D RevLee said:
No, the NCAA is more afraid of losing lawsuits than any conferences. If the NCAA loses its amateurism rules then the flood gates will open. They will lose billions. Why do u think 51 of the 64 waivers have been granted to the players? The NCAA doesn't want to get taken to court, lose, and have precedent set which would snowball into them losing even more control. There's a reason why the portal was created (which basically enables free agency in CF), and there's a reason why so many players have been granted immediate eligibility. The days of amateurism with the NCAA is slowly coming to an end.
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Agree100%,NCAA doesn’t want lawsuits,that’s why Shalala pushed the envelope and they folded, something Tate and Co. should take into account.
 
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MIATL said:
This is what too many on this board don't seem to get.

Small schools, with limited athletic booster programs, will NEVER be able to compete if the college game ever goes all in on paying kids and allowing transfers to play immediately.

All of y'all calling for this to happen have to understand the law of unintended consequences. Miami doesn't win with a completely open market. The same way Miami doesn't win with coaching hires in the completely open market.

Y'all are griping about "bags" now?!? Imagine when big schools come calling for Miami starters because "the kids should be able to do whatever they want". Yeah ... That works, until they "don't want to make the crib great".
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You're acting like these kids haven't already turned down bags of they're here in the first place. A kid like Lingard for example, has already been offered all sorts of bags and obviously turned them down. If he's here and thriving, why would he all of the sudden start chasing bags?
 
canesproponent said:
I told you guys that the SEC would try to kill this.

The entire SEC possesses a severely ingrained "plantation owner" mentality. These "players play for the good of 'mama' " (i.e. Alabama).

The portal negates the Foundation and they will kill it within two years. Hopefully, we do not need it anymore...

On a societal basis, the Portal gives kids a great chance to earn sizable income. A second string at Bama (the KKK) can go start somewhere else and earn a much better draft position.
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The only think that’s changed w the portal is other schools can find out about a potential transfer, rather than the player having to reach out. Players still have to sit for a year, barring a waiver. This really isn’t some sea change to the system. It’s just a more streamlined process.
 
rustywalkedaway said:
The NCAA has been sued before. It can afford lawsuits as it is funded by its member institutions. It cannot afford to lose member institutions, largely for that very reason.

You merge multiple topics into one. If the "student athlete" went away, there would be no current NCAA. Its existence is based on that status. In fact it created the term "student athlete". The NCAA, speaking for its member institutions, wants that status to remain. So, of course, the member institutions don't want student athletes to be professionals as that changes the entire model and resulting bottom lines.

The NCAA is the "governing" body of 347 DI schools who voluntarily join. The billions you refer to do not go to the NCAA (meaning stay there), they largely go through the NCAA back to the member institutions and conferences. The NCAA receives money, then passes it back to their member institutions and activities. See http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go.

That revenue has nothing to do with things like conference TV and media packages. Those are a big part of the "billions" people like to throw around, but those don't belong to the NCAA. Those go to schools and conferences. However, at least now, if you aren't an NCAA member, you won't be in a power 5 conference. If you aren't in a power 5 conference, you won't get to share in the big TV revenues and won't be able to participate in things like bowl games or other NCAA championship events. So you need to be an NCAA member, even though it is voluntary.

And the NCAA needs its member institutions.
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Member institutions who leave, no longer will be able to play any games. It’s pointless. Besides, Institutions don’t need to leave, they just change the rules. The ncaa is driven by the universities not the other way around.

The NCAA can afford to fight lawsuits till the end of time, yes, but that’s not why they try to avoid lawsuits.

If the NCAA loses a court case dealing with it’s amateurism rules, the entire system could fold. They need to stay out of court to make sure that the system continues to operate as it does now... with the players having no power.
 
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canesproponent said:
I told you guys that the SEC would try to kill this.

The entire SEC possesses a severely ingrained "plantation owner" mentality. These "players play for the good of 'mama' " (i.e. Alabama).

The portal negates the Foundation and they will kill it within two years. Hopefully, we do not need it anymore...

On a societal basis, the Portal gives kids a great chance to earn sizable income. A second string at Bama (the KKK) can go start somewhere else and earn a much better draft position.
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I agree on your "plantation " mentality, but I don't see the portal going away. What needs reformed is the transfer rules. I think that anyone transferring outside of their conference should be eligible immediately if they were not suspended or dismissed. Graduate transfers would trump in-conference transfers, suspensions and dismissals.
 
kryptonite said:
That's fine, but if the school can terminate your ride when they want to, you should be able to leave when you want to. Academic scholarships don't preclude a kid from transfering do they?
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The answer to your last question is: Possible, but not likely. The student is the one that chose to go to the particular university in the first place, and she/he is doing it on a scholarship (free ride). Therefore, why should he/she leave? Students leave a scholarship for some of the following reasons: (a) The scholarship is withdrawn due to not meeting GPA or other unmet requirements; (b) The student has circumstances that prevent him from continuing his/her education at this time in said school (e.g. family illness); (c) The student decides to stop her/his education to go into private business (many examples, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg); (d) The student becomes disillusioned with his academic progress and decides to change careers; even then, the student can still continue his/her education in that university. Regardless, the cost to a university is much less than that of a student-athlete. One must not confuse an educational scholarship with an athletic scholarship. Students on an athletic scholarship are doing two things simultaneously (getting a free education & enhancing their athletic worth in the pursuit of a professional athletic career). Both of these are very costly to a university, in many respects. Thus, what needs to be answered (in my opinion) is how does a student/athlete compensate a university for sunk cost, if the athlete decides to leave/transfer?
 
DTP said:
Why should you be forced to stay at a school? You can't have both. Either schools should be forced to honor the entire scholarship or kids should be free to transfer. You're saying it's OK for a school to drop a scholarship if the player doesn't meet expectations but it's not OK for a player to transfer to a different school if the school doesn't meet his expectations? There's no restrictions on transferring for academic reasons, why only for athletic?
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The answer to your last question is: Because athletic scholarships are not just for sports. Student-athletes get an education as well as enhance their athletic worth by attending the institution of their choice. I agree that a student-athlete should not be forced to stay at a particular university, but there has to be a middle ground that balances student-athlete desires with the sunk costs to an institution when the individual decides to transfer. Some of these student-athletes don't just transfer based on playing or not playing, sometimes they decide to transfer for other personal reasons that have nothing to do with anything. Just the fact that on a whim they just want to move somewhere else.
 
TheU 4ever said:
The answer to your last question is: Because athletic scholarships are not just for sports. Student-athletes get an education as well as enhance their athletic worth by attending the institution of their choice. I agree that a student-athlete should not be forced to stay at a particular university, but there has to be a middle ground that balances student-athlete desires with the sunk costs to an institution when the individual decides to transfer. Some of these student-athletes don't just transfer based on playing or not playing, sometimes they decide to transfer for other personal reasons that have nothing to do with anything. Just the fact that on a whim they just want to move somewhere else.
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Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. There's no way in which the relationship between student athletes and schools isn't slanted heavily in the school's favor.

This is a situation where schools have had everything their own way and now want to cry when the field gets slightly more level. They still have the upper hand and get the better end of the deal. The only reason to fight this is that you think it benefits other schools more than your own, and that's what we're going to see. This is like when saban wanted to slow the game down because he thought it was to his advantage. But what he said was that he was worried about kids getting hurt. Now the portal is helping Miami and not the big powers so they don't like it. They'll use some BS arguments, but it comes down to advantage. So in the end they'll get onboard and the power structure will remain the same. They'll poach players from lesser teams...that diamond in the rough that you coached up? Yeah, he's going to transfer to OSU.
 
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TheU 4ever said:
The answer to your last question is: Because athletic scholarships are not just for sports. Student-athletes get an education as well as enhance their athletic worth by attending the institution of their choice. I agree that a student-athlete should not be forced to stay at a particular university, but there has to be a middle ground that balances student-athlete desires with the sunk costs to an institution when the individual decides to transfer. Some of these student-athletes don't just transfer based on playing or not playing, sometimes they decide to transfer for other personal reasons that have nothing to do with anything. Just the fact that on a whim they just want to move somewhere else.
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You’re talking about sunk cost in a situation where the university is profiting off these kids in a company store type system.

If the athletes aren’t being paid, then they shouid have some right to go somewhere else. If the schools want protect their investment in these kids, then it shouid be incumbent on them to give the athletes an environment that they don’t want to leave.
 
SEC hates this because it renders bags a general waste of money. If someone gets 100k to sign with Bama/UGA/LSU etc... and then leaves after redshirting a year, that’s a horrible return on investment, and I would bet my life would probably result in some violence.

For any school can’t play bag game it’s great because those will generally be good landing spots.

The other issue here is you gotta probably limit how many schools you can go to. You shouldn’t be able to transfer 4 times. Basically once as an undergrad and then once as a grad transfer. You would typically only get a grad transfer if they redshirted, and something tells me, most kids will just transfer after a redshirt year because they are prissy *******.

This is literally Pandora’s box. I do suspect Tate will get denied though. If he gets his waver approved it would send the whole process into a tailspin, so for his sake, I hope they are doing a great investigation on urban and somehow linking Tate’s lack of playing time to some crazy coaching issue caused by him. Probably the only way.
 
D RevLee said:
The portal is here to stay and the SEC can't do anything about it. The NCAA is more scared of getting challenged in court than anything the SEC can do. Players will have more and more control from here on out.
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The SEC schools won’t push too hard because they know if they take this to court a lot of other stuff will come out about they way most of them recruit these players! Especially momma SEC!...ie Alabama!

What they will do is on NSD have their kids sign a LOI with an NDA on NSD to protect the plantation.
 
If the NCAA wants to kill it, then they will approve every waiver.

But this Tate thing shouldn’t be a waiver issue at all. He’s graduating before the season starts. The ****ed up rule requires him to seek a waiver to begin with.

If he doesn’t graduate this summer, make him sit a year. Otherwise, **** off bc he’s a grad student
 
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Did I miss something? How can he graduate from OSU when he is enrolled at the U? He didn't graduate from OSU before transferring so he had to ask for a waiver.
 
DTP said:
You're acting like these kids haven't already turned down bags of they're here in the first place. A kid like Lingard for example, has already been offered all sorts of bags and obviously turned them down. If he's here and thriving, why would he all of the sudden start chasing bags?
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I hear your point. But signing kids and keeping kids are separate topics.

You think Lingard stays to battle Dallas for the number 1 spot if a larger school he’s also interested in offers him the number 1 job if he just transfers? Maybe, maybe not.

But changing the system to full open free agency makes that a question every year, at every position.

And if people are in favor of paying players, then the kid almost has an obligation to go where he can get paid the most ... Over and under the table.
 
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MIATL said:
The attorney said nothing.

They were granted their waiver. He and Justin spoke highly of UGA.

Everyone wins.
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I just thought that they would use the Race card when asking for the waiver. The lawyer said they didn't use it, would like to see the waiver request that they submitted. Again, it was Ohio State that we are talking about.
 
MIATL said:
I hear your point. But signing kids and keeping kids are separate topics.

You think Lingard stays to battle Dallas for the number 1 spot if a larger school he’s also interested in offers him the number 1 job if he just transfers? Maybe, maybe not.

But changing the system to full open free agency makes that a question every year, at every position.

And if people are in favor of paying players, then the kid almost has an obligation to go where he can get paid the most ... Over and under the table.
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Schools will still have an 85 scholarship limit so it's not like the bag schools could just load up on every transfer they want. If you want to start paying off transfer kids, you'll have to start taking less incoming freshmen. It works it's self out.

As for paying players, it would have to be a certain system where everybody gets the same thing or it would never work.
 
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