Tin Foil Hat Time

[P-Tizzle]

I'm sorry if you don't think this deserves it's own thread, but I just have something I need to be talked off the ledge about.

Let me preface this by saying I blame Mario, the staff, and the players 100.0% for the loss on Saturday. We're having a lot of discussion about refs, and this is another, so I get the inevitable rolling of the eyes on this thread in general. But this game wasn't lost by the refs, it was lost by our braindead coaches and players. But I need to explain, because I'm a little confused here.

I personally know an ACC official. He's a friend of friends, but we know each other fairly well, have spent time together and conversed plenty. He didn't do the game Saturday, but he has done games in the past. I haven't spoken to him since the spring, but in the past we have had discussions about his job, overall. I asked him about how the officials are graded, among many other things. And one thing he told me is, as you'd expect, every call or non-call is graded, but one of the "harshest" grades you can get is by making a call that is wrong or unnecessary. The example he used for me is, if there's a quick screen or sweep left, and you call a hold on the right tackle, it better be the world's worst hold, because it really has no impact on the play. Basically even if the RT wasn't even there, or never got out of his stance, the defender over him isn't making the play. And that makes sense. He didn't say this part verbatim, but the way I pretty clearly understood it was, they want you to err on the side of "non-calls" versus making calls that are borderline or bad that impact games.

So, to the tin foil hat part. I am NOT a conspiracy theory guy. At all. Maybe I'm a moron for that, but it is what it is. And when I watch Miami games, I genuinely try to watch them through non Orange and Green glasses. I'm almost never the guy who complains about refs. I try to be impartial. I'm also not trying to let this NBA stuff cloud my judgement. No, to be clear, I do not think everything is rigged. But watch this ******* play. It's 3rd and 8. The entire world knows, if Miami converts, the game is over. They have no timeouts. This is literally, 100.0%, the play of the game. If you were going to make a call or non-call to impact a game, this sure seems like the one to do it on. And back to what I said, these guys are being coached/taught to NOT throw needless flags.

If one person here can tell me with a straight face that this is a hold, kind of a hold, maybe a hold, or one ref on one planet in the entire solar system would even be confused and call this a hold, I will gladly delete this thread. But....this isn't a hold. It's not even close to a hold. It can't accidentally be interpreted as a hold. Remember, these are the refs who watch our games live. They watch tape of our games. They watch Bain get held on almost every single snap, and almost never call it. So, if you watch him all game long, and swallow the whistle, that's cool. But you CANNOT call this bull****. Not on 3rd and 8 with the literal game in the balance.

So, watch this if you have a minute and give me your opinion. As a total non-conspiracy theory guy, am I out of my mind for being REALLY ******* suspicious of this?

I believe in the gameday thread I said I agreed with the call (but it was also defensive PI, so replay of down). But this is holding. #61 does pull the DE to the ground and then lays on him, preventing him from getting up while Beck had the ball. Yes, #61 isn’t on the DE for long at all (but that’s a judgment call by the ref). The ref is going to throw the flag because Beck still has the ball, technically #61 did lay on him, preventing the DE from pursuing Beck. It’s lame. It’s petty. But it’s a penalty.

 

[SFbayCane]

Again, I've followed this closer than most over the years. Here's my theory of how the ACC goes about the business of using officiating to create desired outcomes.

1) They protect Clemson. That has been the ACC's designated Lion for the past decade plus. Even the chart I posted above shows that Clemson has the biggest call differential in their favor.

2) Maximize the number of bowl eligible teams: If you are a 9-2 ACC team playing against a 5-6 ACC team on the final Saturday, the ACC referees will do everything possible to hand the game to the 5-6 team in an effort to get them bowl eligible. Remember, the ACC has been a 100% revenue sharing conference. Their goal has always been to maximize revenue based on total number of bowl teams.

This is all just my theory but Ive seen a ton of data points over the years that lead me to believe this is how/why they do it.
And of course...

3) Keep the Miami Hurricane down. The last thing any team or conference wants is a strong Canes team. You can see it on the field and in the data.

 

[caneforlifeforreal]

Ill say it

Its rigged. We do make mistakes and call dumb plays. But the game itself is supposed to be fair

Its not. I know it. You know it. Im sick of having to be 2001 version to "not put it in the officials hands". That is never gonna happen. And they are counting on that.

It is what it is. But until the admin does something nothing will change

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Refs mix up numbers on plays regularly.

They threw a flag because they determined that one of the Linemen were holding, they got the wrong lineman, but there was a hold on that play.

And if we're to go further into this non-conspiracy conspiracy, why would the ACC want us to lose to SMU on the road given we're the much bigger draw than any other program in the conference?

Our games get the highest viewership & we make the conference the most money of any team, why would they deliberately take us out of ACC & playoff contention?

The ACC would rather for the storied powerhouses of Virginia, Louisville & Georgia Tech to be one of the representatives in the playoffs over Miami?

Why would they chose on the road @ 5-3 SMU to ***** us over & not @ home vs Notre Dame? Or on the road vs FSU?

What significance does SMU have to ACC over Miami?

I have no idea. That’s why I posed the question. The likelihood that there’s some plotted conspiracy is obviously minuscule. But why are our opponents almost dead last in penalties called? It was just a terrible call, in my opinion, on the one play that would probably impact the game the most. I just wanted to see if a singular human on earth could even be partially convinced it was actually a hold. And Mr. Tizzle below said he thinks it is, so I’ll leave it alone.

 

[Canedude08]

We were in shock in the stadium when Cici got that holding call. Never mind the obvious DPI(or defensive holding if you want to be particular) got waved off. This is the downside of playing such a slow brand of football, it gives the opposition a chance to steal games late and the refs WILL HELP THEM DO IT.

Miami has to have a sizeable lead late, especially on the road, that's why you have to play with a sense of urgency and avoid the focus penalties. You already know that the refs won't give you the benefit of the doubt, don't jump offsides, don't false start. Merely avoiding those will help.

 

[TwentySix]

It was a horrible call. And they threw the flag right at Mauigoa. Idk if some of yall are just stirring **** or what but they didn’t “mix the numbers up”

 

[NC_Canes_11]

You can call a hold on every play so let’s say that’s the right call. So now let’s talk about Marion getting held and Toney getting tackled. How do you miss those 2 calls? At worst it should have been offset and redo 3rd and 8. In no universe is it acceptable that it turned into 3rd and 18.

 

[scrantoncane]

I said the same thing on Saturday afternoon

On the holding call on cici (and no PI on ‘Marion), I thought the DE tripped and fell and cici kinda fell on top of him. Didn’t look like a hold to me.

 

[skyman]

Ill say it

Its rigged. We do make mistakes and call dumb plays. But the game itself is supposed to be fair

Its not. I know it. You know it. Im sick of having to be 2001 version to "not put it in the officials hands". That is never gonna happen. And they are counting on that.

It is what it is. But until the admin does something nothing will change

Yup, and the way we cycle thru coaches and NONE of them ever complain, I guess we are in on it too.. **** is probably wwe really.. NONE of our coaches ever have balls to straight up call **** out, always on some ball supposed to go to jojo but he wasnt available bs? They probably get bonuses and toast up with refs honestly.. Dabo eating 10k fines and Mario cant call out one of like 8 crazy calls?!

 

[Astcloud11]

I believe in the gameday thread I said I agreed with the call (but it was also defensive PI, so replay of down). But this is holding. #61 does pull the DE to the ground and then lays on him, preventing him from getting up while Beck had the ball. Yes, #61 isn’t on the DE for long at all (but that’s a judgment call by the ref). The ref is going to throw the flag because Beck still has the ball, technically #61 did lay on him, preventing the DE from pursuing Beck. It’s lame. It’s petty. But it’s a penalty.


View attachment 341873View attachment 341874

Brother, this dude very clearly slipped and had his head below Cici's punch before Cici could even engage...yet, Cici still put his hands up as the guy tumbles forward and just secures the block with his body. The literal definition of "Holding" in the football rule book;

"the offensive player is using his hands or arms to materially restrict the defender's movement, path, or angle of pursuit, such as grabbing, tackling, hooking, twisting, or pulling him to the ground."

So, unless the ref truly, somehow believed that Cici tugged an already slipping player to the ground...its a ridiculous call.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

You can call a hold on every play so let’s say that’s the right call. So now let’s talk about Marion getting held and Toney getting tackled. How do you miss those 2 calls? At worst it should have been offset and redo 3rd and 8. In no universe is it acceptable that it turned into 3rd and 18.

It didn’t turn into a 3rd and 18. It turned into a 4th and 8, because they magically picked up a flag that they threw. If you threw it, why’d you pick it up? So the only real penalty was the hold on 61, which of course they declined, and it’s punt time.

Off topic, but as usual, the call made no sense. We don’t throw the ball downfield the whole game, and Beck is throwing the ball well in the intermediate game. He had several 3rd and medium conversions in the game. But on the biggest play of the game, let’s throw a low percentage pass 40 yards downfield. Where was that ball for the first 3.9 quarters? It wasn’t a perfect throw either, but Marion had at least half a step and he was getting held for 10 yards. 8 yards literally ends the game. We don’t need 48. We just need 8. More **** that just doesn’t make sense from a strategic standpoint.

And all that to say, it should’ve worked because the ref obviously saw the holds, because he threw the flag, and the Cici hold was complete phantom bull****. I just don’t think that’s your best call in that situation.

 

[PIPO]

I'm sorry if you don't think this deserves it's own thread, but I just have something I need to be talked off the ledge about.

Let me preface this by saying I blame Mario, the staff, and the players 100.0% for the loss on Saturday. We're having a lot of discussion about refs, and this is another, so I get the inevitable rolling of the eyes on this thread in general. But this game wasn't lost by the refs, it was lost by our braindead coaches and players. But I need to explain, because I'm a little confused here.

I personally know an ACC official. He's a friend of friends, but we know each other fairly well, have spent time together and conversed plenty. He didn't do the game Saturday, but he has done games in the past. I haven't spoken to him since the spring, but in the past we have had discussions about his job, overall. I asked him about how the officials are graded, among many other things. And one thing he told me is, as you'd expect, every call or non-call is graded, but one of the "harshest" grades you can get is by making a call that is wrong or unnecessary. The example he used for me is, if there's a quick screen or sweep left, and you call a hold on the right tackle, it better be the world's worst hold, because it really has no impact on the play. Basically even if the RT wasn't even there, or never got out of his stance, the defender over him isn't making the play. And that makes sense. He didn't say this part verbatim, but the way I pretty clearly understood it was, they want you to err on the side of "non-calls" versus making calls that are borderline or bad that impact games.

So, to the tin foil hat part. I am NOT a conspiracy theory guy. At all. Maybe I'm a moron for that, but it is what it is. And when I watch Miami games, I genuinely try to watch them through non Orange and Green glasses. I'm almost never the guy who complains about refs. I try to be impartial. I'm also not trying to let this NBA stuff cloud my judgement. No, to be clear, I do not think everything is rigged. But watch this ******* play. It's 3rd and 8. The entire world knows, if Miami converts, the game is over. They have no timeouts. This is literally, 100.0%, the play of the game. If you were going to make a call or non-call to impact a game, this sure seems like the one to do it on. And back to what I said, these guys are being coached/taught to NOT throw needless flags.

If one person here can tell me with a straight face that this is a hold, kind of a hold, maybe a hold, or one ref on one planet in the entire solar system would even be confused and call this a hold, I will gladly delete this thread. But....this isn't a hold. It's not even close to a hold. It can't accidentally be interpreted as a hold. Remember, these are the refs who watch our games live. They watch tape of our games. They watch Bain get held on almost every single snap, and almost never call it. So, if you watch him all game long, and swallow the whistle, that's cool. But you CANNOT call this bull****. Not on 3rd and 8 with the literal game in the balance.

So, watch this if you have a minute and give me your opinion. As a total non-conspiracy theory guy, am I out of my mind for being REALLY ******* suspicious of this?

You can add this play as well:

 

[Hoyacane1620]

View attachment 341871

Refs not even looking at them

 

[gabednconfused]

There is a multi-year, cognitive bias displayed by officials and the league. Because we are the most hated team in CFB, there is no benefit of the doubt? Missed the call? Didn’t see it? Must be Miami’s fault. When you have a team perceived as the bigger and better one, your eyes drift towards them. This is a failure of the refereeing process but it’s long rooted in our near term history as a program.

The only way this stops is if Mario starts speaking out, in specific calls, and literally names and shames. Take the fine, take multiple fines, stop being a ******* ***** you are not nick Saban and you’re not taking the league boss to the cigar room after.

Use the court of public opinion to influence and adjust the bias. This is Mario’s failure.

 

[cf3000]

Except in the ACC, where the officiating is done by worthless pieces of **** parading around full of incompetence.

I watched that frame by frame several times and I guess someone will have to educate me as to how Bell was holding on that play. He kept his feet moving, stayed in front, stayed inside the DEs pads, and didn’t hook or pull the jersey. Maybe I just don’t know WTF I’m talking about. But it certainly wasn’t as blatant as the DPI on the same play, which looked like an intentional effort to stop a sure TD.

That's not holding

 

[CanesDynasty]

View attachment 341871

The crazy part is Beck had that pocket all game and we only managed 20 points.

* And that is a clean, legal block by Bell. The only holding on that play were by the DBs covering Marion and Toney

We lost to 3 opponents on Saturday in this exact order. Miami, the refs, and a distant third was SMU

 

[DoctorKrazey]

For the most part, I haven’t seen very many Miami fans blaming the loss on the refs. I look at it like this: If you’re really a playoff team you shouldn’t be in that position against a team like SMU. We literally punted the ball once in the first half and were in SMU territory the entire time…and had 13 measly points to show for it.

 

[TOcane]

For the most part, I haven’t seen very many Miami fans blaming the loss on the refs. I look at it like this: If you’re really a playoff team you shouldn’t be in that position against a team like SMU. We literally punted the ball once in the first half and were in SMU territory the entire time…and had 13 measly points to show for it.

You can't really say this anymore though there are other cfp teams this year that have been in dogfights with lesser opponents until the end of the game. OSU and Indiana are really the only two teams just laying it on people.

 

[Empirical Cane]

I'm sorry if you don't think this deserves it's own thread, but I just have something I need to be talked off the ledge about.

Let me preface this by saying I blame Mario, the staff, and the players 100.0% for the loss on Saturday. We're having a lot of discussion about refs, and this is another, so I get the inevitable rolling of the eyes on this thread in general. But this game wasn't lost by the refs, it was lost by our braindead coaches and players. But I need to explain, because I'm a little confused here.

I personally know an ACC official. He's a friend of friends, but we know each other fairly well, have spent time together and conversed plenty. He didn't do the game Saturday, but he has done games in the past. I haven't spoken to him since the spring, but in the past we have had discussions about his job, overall. I asked him about how the officials are graded, among many other things. And one thing he told me is, as you'd expect, every call or non-call is graded, but one of the "harshest" grades you can get is by making a call that is wrong or unnecessary. The example he used for me is, if there's a quick screen or sweep left, and you call a hold on the right tackle, it better be the world's worst hold, because it really has no impact on the play. Basically even if the RT wasn't even there, or never got out of his stance, the defender over him isn't making the play. And that makes sense. He didn't say this part verbatim, but the way I pretty clearly understood it was, they want you to err on the side of "non-calls" versus making calls that are borderline or bad that impact games.

So, to the tin foil hat part. I am NOT a conspiracy theory guy. At all. Maybe I'm a moron for that, but it is what it is. And when I watch Miami games, I genuinely try to watch them through non Orange and Green glasses. I'm almost never the guy who complains about refs. I try to be impartial. I'm also not trying to let this NBA stuff cloud my judgement. No, to be clear, I do not think everything is rigged. But watch this ******* play. It's 3rd and 8. The entire world knows, if Miami converts, the game is over. They have no timeouts. This is literally, 100.0%, the play of the game. If you were going to make a call or non-call to impact a game, this sure seems like the one to do it on. And back to what I said, these guys are being coached/taught to NOT throw needless flags.

If one person here can tell me with a straight face that this is a hold, kind of a hold, maybe a hold, or one ref on one planet in the entire solar system would even be confused and call this a hold, I will gladly delete this thread. But....this isn't a hold. It's not even close to a hold. It can't accidentally be interpreted as a hold. Remember, these are the refs who watch our games live. They watch tape of our games. They watch Bain get held on almost every single snap, and almost never call it. So, if you watch him all game long, and swallow the whistle, that's cool. But you CANNOT call this bull****. Not on 3rd and 8 with the literal game in the balance.

So, watch this if you have a minute and give me your opinion. As a total non-conspiracy theory guy, am I out of my mind for being REALLY ******* suspicious of this?

I blame your wife's friend.

 

[DoctorKrazey]

You can't really say this anymore though there are other cfp teams this year that have been in dogfights with lesser opponents until the end of the game. OSU and Indiana are really the only two teams just laying it on people.

True, but the thing that disturbs me about teams under Mario is they have a history of wetting the bed against lesser opponents. If it’s a prime time game against a top 10-15 team his teams tend to play well in those type of games, it’s the games against inferior competition where he has problems. I saw a really scary stat the other day about Mario and I think it’s a massive indictment on his inability to motivate his teams…

Since Mario took over at Miami, the Canes lead all of college football in losses when they were a double-digit favorite.

That is a HUGE issue, and frankly, pretty dang embarrassing.