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Off-Topic Tier one Special mission unit; special operations; military

PIPO said:
www.politico.com

This Military Tragedy Became a Blockbuster Movie. Here’s What It Didn’t Tell You.

More than 20 years after Operation Red Wings, the mission that inspired the bestselling memoir and film “Lone Survivor,” Navy SEALs are finally opening up about what really happened.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

When you have time, a great read.
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There were a number of things that went sideways. One, just kept on occurring and that was the military's fault.

Communications. NEVER go small, deep in enemy terrain - without SOME communications that could actually reach some backup. They lost communications due to isolation and mountains. Thanks to satcoms - that's fixed now.

Mission Priorities. So they got spotted. And they let them go. That was a fatal mistake. That got them killed. Men/Team comes first. Mission comes second - sometimes first - humanitarian concerns take last place. You have prisoners - you have a real problem. They take up too much time and effort to guard and preserve. Eliminate the problem and concentrate on your mission. Mission second. Team first. Prisoners third. Keep it clean and lean.

Let's see. Do I choose for my men to survive - or does my decision place them at great risk - unnecessary risk? The moment they were discovered - that mission was over. Time to hat up and clear the area as fast as possible.

One survivor. Not his fault. Limited options and bad decisions.
 
Memnon said:


@rangerbrother305
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Wow. I was in SF but in transit to VN, two of us got sidetracked by a General Hollingsworth who was putting together an Arctic Ranger Company O 75th Rangers in Alaska, and we're known as "The Forgotten Ranger Company."

I already wore the Beret that was green, and on my wall, some family member framed a authorization letter dated 25 November, 1970 which gave official authorization to wear the Black Beret.

Back then, the LRRP units in each Vietnam Division - were changed to Ranger Companies. One Company per DIvision. We were about as popular to the rest of the Army as a dose of the clap. Jump boot, bloused, berets, and yeah. I get it. We looked different. Then again, we WERE different.

I had to go through LAX, and had someone yell at me, "Troop!" I turned around and it was a Major, who had something on his mind: "That's unauthorized head gear!" I replied, "Not where I come from."

That pisced him off and he told me "You WILL remove it!" Now he's got me a bit irritated, so my reply was to bow up a bit, free my hands, get one foot a bit in front of another, and replied, "I'm NOT removing it, and YOU aren't either!"

He wrote my name down - but I never heard anything else about it.

Glad they're getting another Regiment.

We're going to need it.
 
It’s been
Memnon said:


@rangerbrother305
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Memnon said:


@rangerbrother305
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This has been in talks for a while. Two nights ago, I said I prefer the current setup without a 4th Battalion.

But I also understand the reasoning behind it.

The good: more time with their families, since having another battalion in the alert/ready cycle means more time home between rotations.

It also opens up more leadership positions for Rangers currently assigned to Regiment, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Battalion. As it stands, leadership roles are limited unless guys move up to CAG.

The cons:

Less squad firepower if they cut squads from nine to seven — which is huge in a firefight.

It could dilute experience at the battalion, company, and platoon level.

Again, my sentiment is I don't agree with it, but I get it. But that’s the old guy in me talking. Who in 2001 used to laugh at the old guys complaining about the changing of the beret color. I guess that I am that old guy now 😆
 
UMFarArcher said:
There were a number of things that went sideways. One, just kept on occurring and that was the military's fault.

Communications. NEVER go small, deep in enemy terrain - without SOME communications that could actually reach some backup. They lost communications due to isolation and mountains. Thanks to satcoms - that's fixed now.

Mission Priorities. So they got spotted. And they let them go. That was a fatal mistake. That got them killed. Men/Team comes first. Mission comes second - sometimes first - humanitarian concerns take last place. You have prisoners - you have a real problem. They take up too much time and effort to guard and preserve. Eliminate the problem and concentrate on your mission. Mission second. Team first. Prisoners third. Keep it clean and lean.

Let's see. Do I choose for my men to survive - or does my decision place them at great risk - unnecessary risk? The moment they were discovered - that mission was over. Time to hat up and clear the area as fast as possible.

One survivor. Not his fault. Limited options and bad decisions.
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Other option is to take prisoners with you. When Heli lands, cut them lose and you’re gone.

Then again, if they where compromised before during insertion and tracked, as has been the Intel, they would’ve had to deal with it when ambushed.

Basically this was a SEAL team that was raw and inexperienced. Murphy for one, although portrayed as a hero, had an accidental discharge that injured a SEAL that ended their career and others (vet seals) as a result didn’t want to serve with Murphy. So he had a lot of pressure in him as an officer to perform and make decisions.

All 4 SEALS on this mission where SDV (SEAL Delivery Vehicles) SEALS out of Hawaii and Virginia Beach and just didn’t have the necessary experience to go out there on their own without any experienced SEALS.
 
PIPO said:
Other option is to take prisoners with you. When Heli lands, cut them lose and you’re gone.

Then again, if they where compromised before during insertion and tracked, as has been the Intel, they would’ve had to deal with it when ambushed.

Basically this was a SEAL team that was raw and inexperienced. Murphy for one, although portrayed as a hero, had an accidental discharge that injured a SEAL that ended their career and others (vet seals) as a result didn’t want to serve with Murphy. So he had a lot of pressure in him as an officer to perform and make decisions.

All 4 SEALS on this mission where SDV (SEAL Delivery Vehicles) SEALS out of Hawaii and Virginia Beach and just didn’t have the necessary experience to go out there on their own without any experienced SEALS.
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When you have five or six men - total - you don't have the resources to take a single prisoner. One man in a five man group costs you 20% of your fighting force being 100% at ready and not distracted by also having to keep eyes on the prisoner. Terrain dictates a lot. Prisoner? Unacceptable.

That prisoner-taking only worked once for us. I took several turns of det cord around the necks of the two guys and hooked up the clackers, before I cut some more det cord and took a few turns around a small tree, and when it detonated in front of them and cut it in half - then they realized what was tied and fashioned around their necks.

One of them sharply spoke to his buddy and I cuffed him up the side of his head and asked our Kit Carson scout and interpreter what he said, and the interpreter says, "He say don't trip! Don't fall! Be careful!" Smart man.

This interpreter/scout was part of a platoon - not a team. So we had additional resources. Prisoners will get you killed - and can do so a dozen different ways.

We've lost a lot of good, military men over the decades - due entirely to pisc-poor communications. Throw in a cancelled mission by being discovered - no contact, and THEN letting the captive(s) go? You don't even know IF you can get a bird in.

That was crazy.

And yes, I've experienced a tactically idiotic officer - and it was a full time job trying to - not counter - but take his commands - but fulfill his commands - my way.

Guys hated him.
 
PIPO said:
Other option is to take prisoners with you. When Heli lands, cut them lose and you’re gone.

Then again, if they where compromised before during insertion and tracked, as has been the Intel, they would’ve had to deal with it when ambushed.

Basically this was a SEAL team that was raw and inexperienced. Murphy for one, although portrayed as a hero, had an accidental discharge that injured a SEAL that ended their career and others (vet seals) as a result didn’t want to serve with Murphy. So he had a lot of pressure in him as an officer to perform and make decisions.

All 4 SEALS on this mission where SDV (SEAL Delivery Vehicles) SEALS out of Hawaii and Virginia Beach and just didn’t have the necessary experience to go out there on their own without any experienced SEALS.
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Spot-on. Plus ML will never be respected for his actions during this event as it was despicable and should have his trident removed.But it won’t ever happen.

I was out there on the SAR and it ****ed everyone off once the true details came out.
 
rangerbrother305 said:
Spot-on. Plus ML will never be respected for his actions during this event as it was despicable and should have his trident removed.But it won’t ever happen.

I was out there on the SAR and it ****ed everyone off once the true details came out.
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I’ve seen a lot of info out there how ML had full mags of ammo and hadn’t fired his weapon. That he retreated while leaving the 3 other SEAL behind to fight, per Predator drone feeds not released and then of course, the Navy leadership fed him the story and gave him the platform while Rangers, SF and others had to hump through the mountains trying to recover the remains and get him out.
 
PIPO said:
I’ve seen a lot of info out there how ML had full mags of ammo and hadn’t fired his weapon. That he retreated while leaving the 3 other SEAL behind to fight, per Predator drone feeds not released and then of course, the Navy leadership fed him the story and gave him the platform while Rangers, SF and others had to hump through the mountains trying to recover the remains and get him out.
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IMO the biggest issue with the majority of SEALs is they don’t learn leadership skills which shows up time and time again. By the things they do, how they treat others and other things. See the below as an example of learning leadership skills and having to go through trenches before becoming one of the below:

Ranger Battalion squad leader (E-5/E-6):

  • RASP 1 entry: often comes in as junior enlisted (E-1–E-4), sometimes fresh out of OSUT/Airborne school
  • 1–2 years: private/specialist, builds proficiency, does first deployment(s)
  • ~2–3 years in: sent to Ranger School (tab required for promotion to leadership positions)
  • ~3–5 years in Regiment: promoted to Sergeant (E-5), often as a team leader first
  • ~5–7 years in Regiment: promoted to Staff Sergeant (E-6), squad leader billet

  • Green Beret
  • Active duty/Guard, U.S. citizen
  • E-4 to E-7 enlisted (Airborne/Ranger qualified if E-7), or 1LT(P)/CPT officer


MARSOC (Raiders)

  • Active duty Marine, any MOS
  • E-4/E-5, 3–7 yrs TIS, or O-2/O-3 officer


Delta Force

E-4 to E-8, or O-3/O-4

4+ yrs in service, 2.5+ yrs remaining
 
Seal Team 10 had no business taking on that mission to begin with, they had absolutely no experience as an advanced RECCE unit & not a single one of them on that mission had ever executed, let alone participated in a successful Capture/Kill HVT mission.

It starts at the top with NSW, always hunting for glory. They had been advised by several others from the Army & the S-2 & S-3 of 3rd Recon Batt for the Marines that it was impractical logistically & that without a conventional force element close by for QRF that it would not be a doable mission.

Vanilla/White Side SEAL Teams are not structured or designed for HVT missions, especially not deep recon style targets that require way more tactical provision. Even the TacDEVRON ST6 Squadrons aren't really all that adept at target hunting, even though it's their primary objective along with hostage rescue, although, they tend to fuxk that up as well.

The fact that they even got discovered shows how out of their area of expertise they were. Recce units like RRD/RRC would have never been discovered in the first place, because they train specifically for those type of scenarios & know how to embed themselves deep in hostile enemy territory for days on end without ever being spotted.

That was a JSOC caliber mission that should've been taken by the Rangers+CAG with a 24th STS element augmented with them. That's what they specialize in. They would've dropped in in the middle of the night & snatched Ahmad Shah up before the Sun even rises. By the time he wakes up, he would’ve already been apprehended in zipties being handed over to the CIA.

The most messed part about ORW wasn't just the 3 SEALS who got killed, it was the other 16 service members who also died during the search & recovery in ORWII.

8 other SEALS & 8 160th SOAR aviators & crewmen also died looking for & recovering the bodies of ST10. And due to Marcus's refusal to give full detailed answers & be more cooperative, Axelson died because they couldn't get to him in time. He was still alive when the search first started, but Luttrell told the Rangers that everyone was dead so that changed the trajectory of the recovery pursuit.

When they found Axe, he had only been dead for a few hours.
 
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Memnon said:
Seal Team 10 had no business taking on that mission to begin with, they had absolutely no experience as an advanced RECCE unit & not a single one of them on that mission had ever executed, let alone participated in a successful Capture/Kill HVT mission.

It starts at the top with NSW, always hunting for glory. They had been advised by several others from the Army & the S-2 & S-3 of 3rd Recon Batt for the Marines that it was impractical logistically & that without a conventional force element close by for QRF that it would not be a doable mission.

Vanilla/White Side SEAL Teams are not structured or designed for HVT missions, especially not deep recon style targets that require way more tactical provision. Even the TacDEVRON ST6 Squadrons aren't really all that adept at target hunting, even though it's their primary objective along with hostage rescue, although, they tend to fuxk that up as well.

The fact that they even got discovered shows how out of their area of expertise they were. Recce units like RRD/RRC would have never been discovered in the first place, because they train specifically for those type of scenarios & know how to embed themselves deep in hostile enemy territory for days on end without ever being spotted.

That was a JSOC caliber mission that should've been taken by the Rangers+CAG with a 24th STS element augmented with them. That's what they specialize in. They would've dropped in in the middle of the night & snatched Ahmad Shah up before the Sun even rises. By the time he wakes up, he would’ve already been apprehended in zipties being handed over to the CIA.

The most messed part about ORW wasn't just the 3 SEALS who got killed, it was the other 16 service members who also died during the search & recovery in ORWII.

8 other SEALS & 8 160th SOAR aviators & crewmen also died looking for & recovering the bodies of ST10. And due to Marcus's refusal to give full detailed answers & be more cooperative, Axelson died because they couldn't get to him in time. He was still alive when the search first started, but Luttrell told the Rangers that everyone was dead so that changed the trajectory of the recovery pursuit.

When they found Axe, he had only been dead for a few hours.
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This is so spot-on. @Memnon who are you lol..Did you serve?

I work with still with guys to this day who have worked at every JSOC and USASOC Unit. I have seen or know someone who have worked every huge known and unknown mission since Granada. The stories are told in great detail, that mission, NK mission, and the HOstage Rescue Missions where ST6 have killed and or wounded hostages.

Also- know the legendary Billy Waugh from having drinks on numerous occasions in what was the most exclusive bar in the world. You talk about some crazy stories - your balls have to be big as earth to do what he did.
 
PIPO said:
I’ve seen a lot of info out there how ML had full mags of ammo and hadn’t fired his weapon. That he retreated while leaving the 3 other SEAL behind to fight, per Predator drone feeds not released and then of course, the Navy leadership fed him the story and gave him the platform while Rangers, SF and others had to hump through the mountains trying to recover the remains and get him out.
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PIPO, if you'll permit - I can see this being true - without him being to blame.

First - I don't know how in Hades anyone could suggest he never fired his weapon. Everyone fires at least some return fire upon contact - and this wasn't a two-minute drill. (Just to get that one out of the way.)

Having some full mags? I see nothing wrong there, whatsoever. It would take a dumbasc to fire up all his ammo - as you fire normally the first mag to just produce lots of firepower - and then you better be spreading it out as you only have a limited amount.

This retreat. To disengage as safely as possible, one guy would fold back (depending on terrain) a short distance to cover the next man designated to fold back - about the same distance behind the first man to pullback - and one after another, folding back behind the last man - while the others covered his retreat. Four covering, one retreating.

And you keep folding back - with covering fire. Man after man. Each one has the other four or five covering his retreat.

If everyone's out of mags - you're truly and thoroughly ****ed! If just one is out of ammo - you're 20% ineffective.

I didn't read the book - or any book on this matter - but some of the things pointed out to be completely damaging - are not absolutes - at least in my experiences.

Then there's the real situational action. IF the situation becomes a complete loss of control - it just may come down to a "every man for himself" event. Sounds like these guys had a really complete loss of control moment. Overwhelmed.

Don't know siht about any drone footage - I only know that every facet of this endeavor - from mission determination, mission planning, the point of insertion, the piscpoor communications, their discovery, their decision to turn the prisoner loose, their lack of an effective line to retreat, the inability to lose their pursuers, and even subsequent deaths - disaster after disaster after cascading disaster - what a siht show.

Not defending him at all. I don't know his realtime situation. Nor for that fact - does anyone else.

I just wanted to address WHY he should have some full mags.

We were just off a main trail on recon - and when what looked like a reinforced company of enemy came down that trail, they decided to take a break right there in front of us. I had this one SOB - just had to get off the trail a ways - to take a squirt.

I was on my stomach, and he stepped between my extended hand and my head - and never saw me. Did I do the right thing - or should I have opened up and shown them how a man is supposed to die? Idealistically?

Of course, my buddies would have been killed as well. I opted to survive if possible - and every moment of that little event - I was in survival mode. I don't know this guy's mind - his exact situation - how the others were making out - were they dead or soon to be - but in combat - sometimes - most times - things just turn to siht.

I'll say this. He was the only survivor. All those hunting him - didn't get him.

He has to live with whatever he knows he did, didn't do, and is. You dammned well better be confident you did right - meaning - you better like yourself - because that "yourself" is going to be with you 24/7 - for the rest of your life.
 
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UMFarArcher said:
PIPO, if you'll permit - I can see this being true - without him being to blame.

First - I don't know how in Hades anyone could suggest he never fired his weapon. Everyone fires at least some return fire upon contact - and this wasn't a two-minute drill. (Just to get that one out of the way.)

Having some full mags? I see nothing wrong there, whatsoever. It would take a dumbasc to fire up all his ammo - as you fire normally the first mag to just produce lots of firepower - and then you better be spreading it out as you only have a limited amount.

This retreat. To disengage as safely as possible, one guy would fold back (depending on terrain) a short distance to cover the next man designated to fold back - about the same distance behind the first man to pullback - and one after another, folding back behind the last man - while the others covered his retreat. Four covering, one retreating.

And you keep folding back - with covering fire. Man after man. Each one has the other four or five covering his retreat.

If everyone's out of mags - you're truly and thoroughly ****ed! If just one is out of ammo - you're 20% ineffective.

I didn't read the book - or any book on this matter - but some of the things pointed out to be completely damaging - are not absolutes - at least in my experiences.

Then there's the real situational action. IF the situation becomes a complete loss of control - it just may come down to a "every man for himself" event. Sounds like these guys had a really complete loss of control moment. Overwhelmed.

Don't know siht about any drone footage - I only know that every facet of this endeavor - from mission determination, mission planning, the point of insertion, the piscpoor communications, their discovery, their decision to turn the prisoner loose, their lack of an effective line to retreat, the inability to lose their pursuers, and even subsequent deaths - disaster after disaster after cascading disaster - what a siht show.

Not defending him at all. I don't know his realtime situation. Nor for that fact - does anyone else.

I just wanted to address WHY he should have some full mags.

We were just off a main trail on recon - and when what looked like a reinforced company of enemy came down that trail, they decided to take a break right there in front of us. I had this one SOB - just had to get off the trail a ways - to take a squirt.

I was on my stomach, and he stepped between my extended hand and my head - and never saw me. Did I do the right thing - or should I have opened up and shown them how a man is supposed to die? Idealistically?

Of course, my buddies would have been killed as well. I opted to survive if possible - and every moment of that little event - I was in survival mode. I don't know this guy's mind - his exact situation - how the others were making out - were they dead or soon to be - but in combat - sometimes - most times - things just turn to siht.

I'll say this. He was the only survivor. All those hunting him - didn't get him.

He has to live with whatever he knows he did, didn't do, and is. You dammned well better be confident you did right - meaning - you better like yourself - because that "yourself" is going to be with you 24/7 - for the rest of your life.
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Worth the read below.

I understand what you are saying regarding treating and covering fire and peeling.

The nick name for Lutrell in circles is the “Lone Runner” meaning he plain out ran. Not covering fire and peeling. But those are just stories out there among many in SF.

Good article regarding Red Wings:

 
PIPO said:
Worth the read below.

I understand what you are saying regarding treating and covering fire and peeling.

The nick name for Lutrell in circles is the “Lone Runner” meaning he plain out ran. Not covering fire and peeling. But those are just stories out there among many in SF.

Good article regarding Red Wings:

Click to expand...

Thanks. I read it. Wow.

This was worse than anything I previously knew. Really bad. I gotta digest this a bit more, that's for certain. Tomorrow.
 
@PIPO.

Aside from some of the things I already mentioned, this mission was pure insanity. The First Rule of Boulschitting is, "Never start believing your own Boulschitt."

I know. These guys were SEALS. Tough. But they suffered serious tactical skills. That Trident covers a lot of territory - but these guys were not trained sufficiently in ground tactics, inexperienced in ground tactics, and when put in what amounts to a no-win mission - tragedy.

When I went though SF, the training was much different than it is today. They're still really good - but we had instructors who'd served in Korea and with multiple tours in Vietnam - in the early days. They knew their stuff! One, I'll never forget - was MSgt Nale. Sounded like NAIL. He'd been put back together a few times, and was scarred up pretty well.

We ran op after op, after op. One of us would be chosen to command the mission they gave us. Not just a half-asced training mission - but we were operating against members of the 6th Special Forces Group. They always knew where we started from and knew our destination - and would just ambush the living doo-doo out of us. Then critique us. Rip into us.

I'm not talking about one or two missions - one after another all day and often into the night. We got better. We moved better. Even when they made matters worse by some sever sleep deprivation.

Now we didn't have to sit in ocean water and freeze our asces off to show how tough we are, nor deal with the diving skills - which may break some men, but that doesn't do diddly squat for the need to move like Apaches across dry terrain. Maybe they should spend less time having to sit on their asces holding arms in the cold water's edge - and more time gaining skills in movement. Running ops. Scores and scores of ops. That's how you learn. Adjust. Can hide. Can cover your tracks. Jeez!

We always had a few helicopters combined making dozens of landings and takeoffs even miles away when we inserted - not just the largest helicopter in country - like they used - making one hover. That mission should have been scrubbed right then if that was the only bird available. You just telegraphed you likely presence! And unlike most US soldiers - others TRACK! Good trackers!

We also always had air cover - gunships, observation helicopters, and could get fighters on station pretty quick. These guys had NOTHING! And WE learned that over the years - the hard way.

To blame this one guy who lived - for inconsistencies - there's more to that which will never be known.

I don't mean to make this about me - just to share what we were stunned by. After a pretty good sized firefight - a day or so later, our numbers were somewhat reduced and we found ourselves sharing what we experienced. It was a riot! We were all together - in the same place - at the same time - doing the same things - against the same enemies - and it was a hoot as to question ourselves if we were really there ourselves!

We couldn't believe the differences! Really surprised as different guys weighed in - and thinking - how did I miss that? Or "I thought this happened first!" I've pondered those moments over the years and my conclusion is that a combat fight - is not the organized group action. It's all a series of one-on-one personal battles - to kill this one threat - and then move onto the next - and so on, too busy to know what others are really going through.

While we were talking - someone said that Ryder was put in for a Silver Star for assaulting a machinegun team and killing them just before they got set up on our flank. That was NOT the Ryder I knew - and then he walked up. I asked him words to the effect - "Heard you assaulted a machinegun crew and are in for a Silver Star."

He shook his head and told all of us, "I didn't assault ****. You were Point - up front - and a bit to the left. When the shooting started, I ran in the other direction a bit. These guys were setting up right in front of me, and they were between me - and where I was going. I just fanned them as I ran by - and the LT mustta seen it - and thought I'd done it a-purpose. I didn't. They were just in my way."

I think the interviews "facts" depended a bit on who was questioning, a bit on the perceptions that may have either faded or were made clearer, and I'd imagine that some of the contents in the book were - watered down a bit. To this day, if I were asked about some of the things I did - I'd leave a lot out. Don't want my family or even grandchildren to think bad of me, or think I was stupid, berserk, or hateful.

When you start putting things on paper - you can't help but smooth out some bumps and wrinkles - for you - and for those who you worked with and respected. It's much easier sometimes to say, "I don't know." "I didn't see that." "I tried to." "I'm not sure."
 
UMFarArcher said:
@PIPO.

Aside from some of the things I already mentioned, this mission was pure insanity. The First Rule of Boulschitting is, "Never start believing your own Boulschitt."

I know. These guys were SEALS. Tough. But they suffered serious tactical skills. That Trident covers a lot of territory - but these guys were not trained sufficiently in ground tactics, inexperienced in ground tactics, and when put in what amounts to a no-win mission - tragedy.

When I went though SF, the training was much different than it is today. They're still really good - but we had instructors who'd served in Korea and with multiple tours in Vietnam - in the early days. They knew their stuff! One, I'll never forget - was MSgt Nale. Sounded like NAIL. He'd been put back together a few times, and was scarred up pretty well.

We ran op after op, after op. One of us would be chosen to command the mission they gave us. Not just a half-asced training mission - but we were operating against members of the 6th Special Forces Group. They always knew where we started from and knew our destination - and would just ambush the living doo-doo out of us. Then critique us. Rip into us.

I'm not talking about one or two missions - one after another all day and often into the night. We got better. We moved better. Even when they made matters worse by some sever sleep deprivation.

Now we didn't have to sit in ocean water and freeze our asces off to show how tough we are, nor deal with the diving skills - which may break some men, but that doesn't do diddly squat for the need to move like Apaches across dry terrain. Maybe they should spend less time having to sit on their asces holding arms in the cold water's edge - and more time gaining skills in movement. Running ops. Scores and scores of ops. That's how you learn. Adjust. Can hide. Can cover your tracks. Jeez!

We always had a few helicopters combined making dozens of landings and takeoffs even miles away when we inserted - not just the largest helicopter in country - like they used - making one hover. That mission should have been scrubbed right then if that was the only bird available. You just telegraphed you likely presence! And unlike most US soldiers - others TRACK! Good trackers!

We also always had air cover - gunships, observation helicopters, and could get fighters on station pretty quick. These guys had NOTHING! And WE learned that over the years - the hard way.

To blame this one guy who lived - for inconsistencies - there's more to that which will never be known.

I don't mean to make this about me - just to share what we were stunned by. After a pretty good sized firefight - a day or so later, our numbers were somewhat reduced and we found ourselves sharing what we experienced. It was a riot! We were all together - in the same place - at the same time - doing the same things - against the same enemies - and it was a hoot as to question ourselves if we were really there ourselves!

We couldn't believe the differences! Really surprised as different guys weighed in - and thinking - how did I miss that? Or "I thought this happened first!" I've pondered those moments over the years and my conclusion is that a combat fight - is not the organized group action. It's all a series of one-on-one personal battles - to kill this one threat - and then move onto the next - and so on, too busy to know what others are really going through.

While we were talking - someone said that Ryder was put in for a Silver Star for assaulting a machinegun team and killing them just before they got set up on our flank. That was NOT the Ryder I knew - and then he walked up. I asked him words to the effect - "Heard you assaulted a machinegun crew and are in for a Silver Star."

He shook his head and told all of us, "I didn't assault ****. You were Point - up front - and a bit to the left. When the shooting started, I ran in the other direction a bit. These guys were setting up right in front of me, and they were between me - and where I was going. I just fanned them as I ran by - and the LT mustta seen it - and thought I'd done it a-purpose. I didn't. They were just in my way."

I think the interviews "facts" depended a bit on who was questioning, a bit on the perceptions that may have either faded or were made clearer, and I'd imagine that some of the contents in the book were - watered down a bit. To this day, if I were asked about some of the things I did - I'd leave a lot out. Don't want my family or even grandchildren to think bad of me, or think I was stupid, berserk, or hateful.

When you start putting things on paper - you can't help but smooth out some bumps and wrinkles - for you - and for those who you worked with and respected. It's much easier sometimes to say, "I don't know." "I didn't see that." "I tried to." "I'm not sure."
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Wow!!!

Thanks for sharing. That was awesome to read. Also, you are correct about Redwings. In the end, command has let a lot of these guys down. So many stories from Afghanistan and Iraq about poor command.
 
The reason why Luttrell being found with full mags was a problem, is because he LIED & said he had gotten into a firefight with over 100+ taliban.

If you're engaging with an enemy target that has you surrounded on all sides as HE described, then while you're maneuvering to provide cover fire to bound back & di di mau to an emergency exfil, why would you have multiple mags if you're being closed in from every angle with enemy combatants firing AK's, PKM's & RPG's?

He also claimed that he fell several feet down the mountain/hill in the Korangal Valley, breaking several bones including his ribs, his femur, his collarbone, his back etc. & LOST his rifle & his kit. Which would mean that he shouldn't have any Mags because his JPC 1 or AVS would've been lost on the mountain in the fall.

Also, if you're a Navy SEAL, it's literally apart of their Frogmam ethos to NEVER leave their brothers behind. Even when under heavy enemy assault, they're not supposed to RUN & find cover by themselves. They may take cover to provide cover fire for their fellow teammates under duress & in that instance there's tactics that can be used to help gain the advantage back in their favor. Like 40mm, or CS, M-18 smoke grenades. You pop smoke to create visual cover & bound back as fast as you can to a safe spot, until you get comms & get an emergency evac.

If one of your teammates takes fire & gets hit, they're supposed to DRAG him with them. It's literally in their SQT.

So there's no scenario where a SEAL runs away from his teammates & gets lost from them while they're under heavy enemy fire & they all die, but he survives. They literally swear an oath to each other before they get their trident that they will DIE with each other on the battlefield if the situation ever gets too hairy.

How does a Navy SEAL who was allegedly ambushed by hundreds of Taliban fighters, NOT get shot, but somehow all of his teammates do??? That's like saying, "My whole team drowned out in the middle of the Ocean" Well how did you survive? "I swam to shore".

The fact is & it's been proven, basically everything Luttrell wrote about in his book & his account of the story was a lie. It was a well crafted story concocted by the command at NSW to turn a terribly gone wrong failed mission into a Hollywood movie as a means to boost Navy recruiting during the GWOT.

It was not a valiant heroic fight to the bitter end that he somehow by the grace of God survived. They were an inexperienced unit taking on a mission that had really bad Intel on, that was poorly planned & improperly executed. They were a reconnaissance team that didn't know anything about Urban/Mountainous Recon. Their area of particular specificity was NURO, AUV's & VBSS, they had no clue what they were doing in Afghanistan, in that particular region. As evidenced by the fact they were discovered & killed, which does not happen to Recce units, whether it's Army, Marines or AFSOC.

Somebody (most likely Marcus), incorrectly assessed the situation once they were discovered & fired off a shot that started the firefight, then panicked once he received return fire & hauled *** off the Mountain/Hill leaving his teammates behind. He went & hid, until nightfall in a surrounding village until Gulab found him & offered him quarters in his home, until the Rangers found him a couple days later.

That's why he was the "Lone survivor", because he left his teammates behind.
 
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