Theory about ACL Injuries for Richt's teams

Linear progression by adding 5 lbs a week? And you’ve been doing that for 16 weeks? Always been more partial to a more periodized approach utilizing base, load, peak, and recovery weeks broken down into blocks of 4-6 weeks. Gains are through supercompensation.

Week 1 - Base
Week 2 - Load
Week 3 - Peak
Week 4 - Recovery
Week 5 - Base
Week 6 - Load
Week 7 - Peak
Week 8 - Recovery

Periodization is ideal for D1 athletes. The guy you are arguing with thinks we are talking about athletes who have never stepped foot in a gym before. You peak at LP otherwise Powerlifters would be squatting 1000lbs in a couple years. You can milk the LP in HS until you can't progress anymore, but after that periodization is necessary. Even the guy he is talking about, Rippetoe, speaks about moving onto a periodization workout.
 
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"Turley does not have some sort of magical formula, nor are his players putting up Zeus-like numbers in the weight room."

"I don’t care how much guys can bench squat or power clean," Turley said. "It has nothing to do with playing football. Football is blocking and tackling. It’s creating contact, avoiding contact and gaining separation if you are a skill guy on the perimeter. That’s football."

"Turely explains that bench press and squat goals don’t even factor into his thinking when he designs a workout for a player. He is concerned only with a player’s ability to move as he needs to on the football field."

******* preach it.
 
You're missing the point and misunderstanding my post. Obviously we resistance train athletes and the goal is to make them stronger, but that's not the end goal. Resistance training is a tool to make our athletes better at their sport. You're over here posting numbers like we care what kind of numbers people put up, like it's Gold's gym.

My goal isn't to impress people with how much Denzel Perryman bench presses or deadlifts, it's to make him a better LB, and speed is always the name of the game. That's why the entire systemic program is designed to make athletes more explosive.

Lol. You are the one misunderstanding my post. Poster A claimed that all college freshman should hop on Rippetoe. RIppetoes starting strength is a routine where you squat 3x a week and increase the weight by 5-10 pounds every workout. This works UP UNTIL you reach your limit. The number I posted where the usual limit people max out at. Not a minimum to be able to play football at a serious level. You are not going to see a guy rep out 500 pounds on rippetoe unless hes 5'3 and 300 pounds. I am not saying if a guy can't bench 250 he can't play football well. I was just stating why Ripptoe is useless for a D1 athlete. It is because they already surpassed the level of getting a benefit from the routine.

Now if your point is that squatting heavy and deadlifting heavy are not beneficial to an athlete then we are going to disagree there. The numbers are not the end all be all, but lifting heavy weights is one piece of the puzzle. Why do you think every good D1 team has their players squat, deadlift, bench, etc. and even have a board to commemorate the biggest lifters?
 
I know this has been talked about a little on the board re: the frequency of ACL injuries for Richt's teams.

Richt: Numerous ACL injuries a fluke

So I was talking to a buddy of mine who works with the team and he mentioned that they do heavy squats and Olympic lifts on both Tuesdays and Thursdays IN SEASON.

Look, I'm no S&C guru and I'll take a back seat to those who know more than I do... but isn't that a little much to be squatting so often in season? That seems a lot even for the offseason. Do muscles have enough time to recover before game day? Even an idiot knows that strong muscles are what keep joints stable and aligned... if they're compromised on game day, could those fatigued muscles from our 'in season' S&C program (that came from Georgia) be a significant catalyst for potential injuries?

What do you guys think?

As long as they are getting proper nutrition and adequate rest time they will be fine. Also yes Bama uses HGH for their players to recover faster. Also Deca,Tren,Test and the newest one on the market DHB. Cochran is smarter than he looks and knows how to cycle the ****tails so that the players peak at just the right moment. However all this hormone altering makes the athlete susceptible to injuries, as we’ve seen in the past. Bama sold there soul a long time ago to win at all cost.
 
"Turley does not have some sort of magical formula, nor are his players putting up Zeus-like numbers in the weight room."

"I don’t care how much guys can bench squat or power clean," Turley said. "It has nothing to do with playing football. Football is blocking and tackling. It’s creating contact, avoiding contact and gaining separation if you are a skill guy on the perimeter. That’s football."

"Turely explains that bench press and squat goals don’t even factor into his thinking when he designs a workout for a player. He is concerned only with a player’s ability to move as he needs to on the football field."

******* preach it.
I know Turley’s Work well. He’s on some cutting edge ****. Many other S&C coaches were skeptical when he first introduced his methods but Stanford has proven year after year to be a durable team. Imagine if they were getting all the 4 and 5 stars that UGA and Bama get.
 
I was just stating why Ripptoe is useless for a D1 athlete. It is because they already surpassed the level of getting a benefit from the routine.

You're right but for the wrong reasons. Rippetoe is useless for a D1 athlete because it trains motor patterns that make them slower, not because they've "surpassed the level of getting benefit from the routine". I'd be willing to bet good money I've trained more collegiate athletes than you, especially since one of my internships was here at UM, and I think you'd be amazed just how inexperienced these kids really are. Some of these high school S&C programs are practically non-existent, or left the kids to do stuff on their own where they completely burned in terrible technique patterns for all their movements, ****ed up their shoulder range of motion and compensate in the incorrect way on all their lifts/movements. The fact that they even made it to the next level was because of their talent, and was in spite of their high school strength and conditioning.

Inexperienced kids are easier to train because they don't know anything. They're fresh and receptive to proper form and the beginning of a proper periodized program. We don't have to waste time running them through a linear program because I don't give a **** how much they bent over row to begin with. I need to improve their mobility, fix their ****** movement patterns and get them prepared to lift big weight explosively when the season starts.

Now if your point is that squatting heavy and deadlifting heavy are not beneficial to an athlete then we are going to disagree there. The numbers are not the end all be all, but lifting heavy weights is one piece of the puzzle. Why do you think every good D1 team has their players squat, deadlift, bench, etc. and even have a board to commemorate the biggest lifters?

I said in an earlier post that squatting heavy and deadlifting heavy are absolutely part of a proper program, just that you shouldn't stay there.

As an aside, and this off-topic, but many collegiate programs are behind the times because it's a good ol' boy system and people who still think powerlifting is good for football and basketball players still run strength programs at the high school and collegiate level. It's hard to get them out. The board to commemorate the biggest lifters is generally just as a motivational tool for the athletes, which I'm also not necessarily against as it provides good motivation and some competitiveness within the weight room.
 
I know Turley’s Work well. He’s on some cutting edge ****. Many other S&C coaches were skeptical when he first introduced his methods but Stanford has proven year after year to be a durable team. Imagine if they were getting all the 4 and 5 stars that UGA and Bama get.

Agree. I think people are just now catching up with Jim Radcliffe over at Oregon.

Aight, heading to bed.
 
You're right but for the wrong reasons. Rippetoe is useless for a D1 athlete because it trains motor patterns that make them slower, not because they've "surpassed the level of getting benefit from the routine". I'd be willing to bet good money I've trained more collegiate athletes than you, especially since one of my internships was here at UM, and I think you'd be amazed just how inexperienced these kids really are. Some of these high school S&C programs are practically non-existent, or left the kids to do stuff on their own where they completely burned in terrible technique patterns for all their movements, ****ed up their shoulder range of motion and compensate in the incorrect way on all their lifts/movements. The fact that they even made it to the next level was because of their talent, and was in spite of their high school strength and conditioning.

Inexperienced kids are easier to train because they don't know anything. They're fresh and receptive to proper form and the beginning of a proper periodized program. We don't have to waste time running them through a linear program because I don't give a **** how much they bent over row to begin with. I need to improve their mobility, fix their ****** movement patterns and get them prepared to lift big weight explosively when the season starts.



I said in an earlier post that squatting heavy and deadlifting heavy are absolutely part of a proper program, just that you shouldn't stay there.

As an aside, and this off-topic, but many collegiate programs are behind the times because it's a good ol' boy system and people who still think powerlifting is good for football and basketball players still run strength programs at the high school and collegiate level. It's hard to get them out. The board to commemorate the biggest lifters is generally just as a motivational tool for the athletes, which I'm also not necessarily against as it provides good motivation and some competitiveness within the weight room.

Squatting is not going to slow a player down. Every single NFL team also has their players squatting, deadlifting, and benching as well. Often times they even do it for 1 rep maxes and the bar is moving WAY slower then it would for 5 reps on a rippetoe routine. The reason D1 athletes don't do it is because they wont benefit from it. How many D1 athletes come in without ever lifting a weight before? You run Rippetoe for 3 months as a complete noob(usually 13-14 years old) to get as strong as possible as fast as possible. If a D1 athlete ran Rippetoe they would not make any gains. Before you recommended that guys do leg curls. Guess what? They don't leg curl during a game of football either? You lift to supplement the football program. That is obvious, but by getting stronger and faster you will be a better football player. If a player came in squatting 135 pounds you would throw him on an LP routine. I think leg curls and GHR are just as important as squatting and cleans. All of the mobility drills are equally as important, but to say that the weight doesn't matter is straight up wrong. If that was the case then we should just have all of the guys lift the bar and never throw on any weight.
 
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Squatting is not going to slow a player down. Every single NFL team also has their players squatting, deadlifting, and benching as well. Often times they even do it for 1 rep maxes and the bar is moving WAY slower then it would for 5 reps on a rippetoe routine. The reason D1 athletes don't do it is because they wont benefit from it. How many D1 athletes come in without ever lifting a weight before? You run Rippetoe for 3 months as a complete noob(usually 13-14 years old) to get as strong as possible as fast as possible. If a D1 athlete ran Rippetoe they would not make any gains. Before you recommended that guys do leg curls. Guess what? They don't leg curl during a game of football either? You lift to supplement the football program. That is obvious, but by getting stronger and faster you will be a better football player. If a player came in squatting 135 pounds you would throw him on an LP routine. I think leg curls and GHR are just as important as squatting and cleans. All of the mobility drills are equally as important, but to say that the weight doesn't matter is straight up wrong. If that was the case then we should just have all of the guys lift the bar and never throw on any weight.

No offense, but I don't have the time nor the energy to explain to you the biomechanics of low bar squatting vs. high bar squatting and why heavy low bar squatting is a waste of time for actual athletes who play sports. You keep equivocating that I said squatting is bad, or weight doesn't matter, when post after post I laid out a rationale for how important high bar squatting is in a program and how percentages of 1RM during each phase are invaluable. This is my last post in this thread because all you weekend warriors who read Starting Strength think you're all strength coaches now and there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.
 
Non strength sports athletes should never be doing 1RMs. It's pointless for their sport and overly risky. You can program around rep maxes and still get a better training program. There is no reason for an athlete to be working above 85% in general as it just increases fatigue for minor strength gains and true maxing usually involves slightly compromised movement patterns just due to the weight.

Set a training max of 90% and program around that.

Also, even in strength sports a lot of current thinking is no longer low vs high bar, but using individual biomechanics to find an ideal leverage. Low bar puts too much stress on the lumbar for football players that already stress is out a lot in practice.
 
There's no real reason to test 1RM though outside of ego (which is an important consideration. Boosting the confidence of someone in the weight room can be useful). You can test a 3RM just as easily, and it'll be more recoverable and less likely to have an injury. A lot of current programming doesn't have a real 1RM test for strength athletes because you want to peak on the platform, not earlier. For football, there's no real reason to increase injury risk in the weight room just because you can. It's the same reason why I'd never have a gen-pop person do a conventional deadlift if there is a trap bar available. Is a conventional deadlift great? Yes. Do you get similar benefits with a trap bar with lower injury risk? Also, yes.
 

that really goes along with how I train in basketball

I use to jog, then I realized how often do you really jog in a real game of full court basketball when you're going 100%? You don't, it's almost all sprinting

same goes for these dribbling drills like "2 pounds with the right, crossover, 2 pounds with the left hand crossover" like when the **** do you do such rigid stuff in the actual game like that? I'm never gonna stand completely still and do that in a game. It may build some strength from pounding the ball but after doing a pretty advanced drill like this for a week, and then competing; I immediately dropped it. I spent hours on hours that one week following drills like that, got on the court and felt like I was worse than before.

Now I do nothing but stuff I would do in the game. Any dribbling drills are done while moving, among other stuff.
 
You’re on the right track, imo, however when you become too specific without introducing “chaos” you can plateau or in some sports lead to injury. (See: Stephon Curry with tennis balls, blind folded, etc

I found something that explains it a bit. 3 Plyometric Workouts for Breakthrough Vertical Jump Power: Part II, the Impact of Specific Variability - SimpliFaster

There is a famous study of long jumpers conducted by Rewzon which appeared in Science of Sports Training by Thomas Kurz. In this study, long jumpers performed one of two training programs.

  • Program One was simply to practice long jumping and “jump as far as you can each jump” in every training attempt.
  • Program Two was “jump a different distance with each jump, and be accurate with the landing.”
The Program Two athletes, who jumped different distances, were able to best their max-only counterparts when it came time to jump all-out for distance at the end of the training study. These jumpers, who fed their nervous system more randomness, created a more robust overall system for the one important big jump attempt. Giving the CNS more possibilities of movement allows the creation of a better program compared to providing only one possibility.

how interesting

I suppose I'll vary it up then, although I'm still not so sure just how much jogging can really help. Perhaps I'll do more "light" sprints rather than just going all out every rep.

I can't find the article now but i'll try and summarize what I found:

There was a S&C coach for some bball team that was of the new school and had questions about some of their training methods. The old school head coach insisted his team needed to jog a mile for practice. The strength coach insisted, "how often do you see your athletes run a straight mile jogging in basketball? It doesn't happen, ever." The coach insisted however that he wanted his team to run a mile no matter what.

So the strength coach figured something out... just as I was gonna type this I found the article

How to get into Basketball Shape - PGC Basketball

basically made his team sprint to half court and back 56 times with a 20 second break in between each sprint. The coach told the strength coach as the season begun that he had never seen a team in such condition in his life.
 
That coach could have varied it by having them run to half court; in-place jumps for 5-seconds; side-sliding on the back trip in defensive posture; in place jumps for 5 sec … then maybe for each circuit after 30 shoot 5 free throws concentrating on getting them off perfectly, but with say 15 seconds. basically incorporating the movements and activities actually used in basketball.

But don’t jog/run a mile unless you’re trying to become a miler.

Elite track and field athletes have several different warm-ups and many of them take anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour just to complete - and they still have a workout after that. However the typical warmup consists of those same “strides” (some call them build ups because they get progressively faster through the warmup), ankle activation and flexibility, hip activation and flexibility, trunk activation and flexibility, etc.

So just go through the actions you use for basketball where you move from slow to max intensity over a 20-30 min period.

Yah I'm sure he had them do more then just that

Me personally I go through this, it's designed for youth but the only difference I see is doing less reps/sets than vs it being adult oriented. So I just increase the sets/reps/time

I strongly encourage anyone that's trying to lose weight to do the agilities section of this The Definitive 6-Week Guard Workout
 
No offense, but I don't have the time nor the energy to explain to you the biomechanics of low bar squatting vs. high bar squatting and why heavy low bar squatting is a waste of time for actual athletes who play sports. You keep equivocating that I said squatting is bad, or weight doesn't matter, when post after post I laid out a rationale for how important high bar squatting is in a program and how percentages of 1RM during each phase are invaluable. This is my last post in this thread because all you weekend warriors who read Starting Strength think you're all strength coaches now and there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

Then I don't see what you are arguing with me about then. For starters you can do High bar squat on an LP. You do not need to use a low bar squat for it. Second lets pretend for a second low bar squats actually doesn't translate to football strength. It would still be a good accessory lift to help you get past sticking points for your high bar squat. I'm not sure if you are equating low bar squat to the ultra wide powerlifting style of squat where the bar only moves a few inches, but that is not what I am referring too and tons of programs(including Miami) include low bar squatting into their strength routine. Tons of guys SC Gurus that players hire in the offseason to prepare for the combine also include low bar squats into their routine. I am not saying it is better then the high bar, but it is not uselss as you think it is. If some freshman in HS comes in not being able to squat 100 pounds he is not going to get as much benefit from doing leg curls with 25 pounds as he would by just running an LP for a couple months. Get the squat up to over 200 lbs and then start following the protocol you laid out.
 
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There's other programs you can run that aren't LP that benefit beginners that would give better sport specific gains to players. With those kids hormonal responses and ability to recover, more hypertrophy work would be way better as a beginner because it'll also help with conditioning while also giving more form work.

Also, there's evidence that there is no real difference for low bar and high bar in terms of muscle growth / strength. A better accessory would be front squats or belt squats (different leverages, and decreased spinal loading to prevent injury). If you aren't going ultra wide, there's no real difference between low bar and high bar, as the whole point of low bar wide squatting is to reduce the distance you are moving the weight at a better leverage. Unless you are going for maximal poundage, there's no real reason to do it, and safety-wise considering they should be working with actual coaches it's better to find their specific form. I used to be a wide squatter, but after working with a real good sports Physio, I found out that a lot of my injuries came from the fact that my hip joint didn't work that way, and I was basically putting a lot of stress on the nearby tendons, fascia, and smaller muscles to compensate. After narrowing my squats, I've had 0 injuries. These kids are working with actual strength coaches, and if the coaches are good they should be finding the kids sweet spot.
 

I agree, mostly, with how this SC thinks. Especially the bolded parts. There's a big difference between power and strength - and the good S&C programs reflect that.


"I Don't Care How Much You Can Bench"

There aren’t a lot of bells and whistles on The Farm; the Stanford program focuses on simplicity and execution. “I don’t have a lot of secrets or gimmicks,” said Turley. “There is an old school way that probably works. It’s been working for a long time.”
Turley does not have some sort of magical formula, nor are his players putting up Zeus-like numbers in the weight room.
"I don’t care how much guys can bench squat or power clean," Turley said. "It has nothing to do with playing football. Football is blocking and tackling. It’s creating contact, avoiding contact and gaining separation if you are a skill guy on the perimeter. That’s football."
What they are doing is building one of the most comprehensive and successful player development programs in the country through highly specialized training, personalized by position and player.

Stanford’s player development team focuses its efforts on injury prevention, athletic performance and mental discipline—in that order. Basically, the Stanford weight program doesn’t worry about having the "strongest" guys in college football. It focuses on football strength, technique and making sure the best Cardinal players stay on the field all season.
“This is an unusual and forward-thinking focus,” said Will Carroll, the Sports Medicine Lead Writer at Bleacher Report. “I guess we should expect that from Stanford. Most teams use the weight room and even advanced tools like Alter-G treadmills, SwimEx pools and the like in a caveman fashion. It’s all get bigger, get faster, which is easily measured. Injury prevention is more subtle.”

The guiding principle is “do no harm,” and Stanford has been wildly successful in doing so. In the six years since Turley took over the Stanford strength program, games missed due to injury has decreased 87 percent.
“That kind of drop is stunning,” Carroll explained. “I think most programs would be happy with 10 percent. For an NFL team, that kind of drop would be worth a win or more, as well as about $20 million in lost payroll.”

For those who say numbers in the weight room are important measure of success on the field, Turley would counter with the example of Stanford’s 6’5”, 313-pound All-American guard David Yankey, who Turley says can barely bench his own body weight.
‘‘He’s got to have some pop, I get it,” said Turley. “But isn’t the rate at which you strike more important than moving a bunch of weight around really slow?”


Turely explains that bench press and squat goals don’t even factor into his thinking when he designs a workout for a player. He is concerned only with a player’s ability to move as he needs to on the football field.
For an offensive lineman like Yankey, this means the mobility and stability of his shoulder, the stability of his core and the mobility of his lower body. Optimizing those characteristics allows him to get low and quickly apply force in the direction he intends to move, thus fulfilling his role as a blocker.
Stanford’s focus on injury prevention over athletic performance, along with the absence of the almighty record board in the weight room, sets its program apart from other powerhouse programs (yes, Stanford is a modern-day powerhouse).
 
what's you guys thoughts on this man's theory regarding training?

I know I know it says joe rogan, he's got a few screws loose.. but it's some other guy doing the talking
 
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