forums

@TheOriginalCane -- How many counters we got?

I could be wrong, but:

1. 25 ICs initially for 2021-2022 class.

2. Justice Oluwaseun, Cody Brown, Deandre Johnson counted as 3 against class due to amount counted forward for 2020-2021 class (could be 4 if Stevenson is as well).

3. NCAA gave players a year back, but now teams have to be under 85 after the free year.

4. The transfers of Gaynor, Pope, Wiggins, Herbert, Hall, and Jennings help in terms of 85 spots, because they all were technically seniors anyway and could’ve used up a scholly if they wanted to🙏🏾

The max that we COULD take in this class IMO, based on ICs and our 7 portal slots, is 28. The tricky part, is we don’t know how many seniors (redshirt juniors) are actually going to stay or go to help or hurt us get to 85 schollys.
Rambo, Bolden, Nesta help due to the draft, but players like the Blades, Ivey, Jordan Miller, Frierson, etc could hurt the 85 because they are suppose to be gone this season as our senior class.

Manny wasn’t wrong about roster management, the NCAA hasn’t helped anyone. That’s why you see a bunch players who are being pushed to the portal by teams, because of that 85 scholly rule. For us to use the 28 Slots (21 ICs + 7 portal), Mario will have to find out which seniors are staying or leaving, how much attrition to expect by May.
Based on the numbers I see, 28 will put us at possibly 89-91 out of 85 if all seniors return. I say to bring in 20 total, let the attrition begin, and use the rest to count back for the 2023 class early enrollees.
 
Advertisement
grover said:
Rules have changed so much with Covid exceptions and blue shirts and transfer portal exceptions, a man can't keep it all straight.

1. How many high school kids and how many transfer kids are we allowed to take in the 2022 class?
2. Are we likely not to be able to max out the class because of team caps?

Now that we have a head coach who can actually recruit, following recruiting is going to be fun again!
Click to expand...


Started with 25. Used 2 for Fall 2021 enrollments (Justice, Cody). We have no additional "countbacks", we maxed out a couple of years ago. If the NCAA finalizes the "up to 7 transfer replacements" initial counter rule, then we should SHOULD have up to 30 initial counters TOTAL.

Here is what would need to happen:

1. Miami has to lose 7 transfers to other schools (not just early NFL guys like Rambo), so this is likely to happen. [EDIT: don't count your chickens before they have hatched, Miami might LOSE 7 guys, but then they have to transfer and enroll somewhere else for Miami to be eligible for a replacement IC, there are/were a lot of guys stuck in the Portal].
2. Miami could sign 30, but AT LEAST SEVEN would have to be transfers, so the transfer portion is likely to happen.
3. Miami could sign 30 portal kids, but this is unlikely to happen.
4. Miami's IC cap is 23 kids from high school AND JuCo (for instance, if we sign Jeffrey M'Ba, who I believe is JuCo and would NOT be a transfer, though he is a bit older).
5. Miami could exceed 7 transfers, but it would reduce the number of HS/JuCo kids we could sign.

There MIGHT be a need to keep one eye on the 85 COUNTERS rule too, as we will have to get back to 85 total post-COVID, but I think Miami will lose enough guys to the NFL, transfer, etc. that we probably do not have to worry about this. But if EVERY eligible player came back (Tyrique, D'Eriq, the 10th-year senior OL from Houston), then we might be close. To be honest with you, COVID made me lazy, I haven't had to monitor the "regular" counter numbers in a year, and I need to get back into the IC classroom!

EDIT: sorry for being late, gentlemen, I was just enjoying a few restful hours between the (finally) official announcement and the obligatory press conference. Won't happen again, I just set a Google alert for "Miami" and "Initial Counters"...
 
Last edited:
Good stuff here. As far as our recent portal guys, by my unofficial count I know we had these guys enter the portal this year...

1. J. Holley - Charlotte (signed)
2. J. Peyton
3. M. Pope
4. D. Wiggins - UL commit
5. C. Williams
6. Q. Williams - Marshall commit
7. C. Gaynor
8. B. Jennings - IU commit
9. G. Hall
10. K. Herbert

I'm not sure if the committed dudes have signed or how exactly the timing of that works in portal world. I also think maybe another OL and a DB hit the portal at some point, but they were too trash for me to remember their names right now (and might have been last cycle)?
 
FWIW, CS put out an article yesterday saying we can take max 25 from recruits and portal this cycle...this assumes everyone who participated in senior day leaves and we process out/remove awarded schollies to 7 current players.
 
sweep8s said:
FWIW, CS put out an article yesterday saying we can take max 25 from recruits and portal this cycle...this assumes everyone who participated in senior day leaves and we process out/remove awarded schollies to 7 current players.
Click to expand...


CaneSpurt doesn't know ****.

What in THEE fvck are they talking about?

25 - starting spot for annual ICs
(2) - ICs for 2021-22 school year used by August 2021 enrollees (Justice, Cody)
+7 - NCAA one-year rule change (see article below)
---
30 - or did I forget how to do math?


www.cbssports.com

NCAA Council approves proposal to replace up to seven transfers in expanded recruiting classes

Roster management has become a big issue for college football programs
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com
 
Advertisement
I’ll say it again, 85 is the limit. 30 but landing elite kids is really what matters. There will be enough elite kids in the portal and HS class for us to bring in 30.
 
90scane said:
I’ll say it again, 85 is the limit. 30 but landing elite kids is really what matters. There will be enough elite kids in the portal and HS class for us to bring in 30.
Click to expand...


We have to monitor both limits. The 85 "total counter" rule is back, and the 25 "initial counter" rule has been enhanced for one year (hopefully they will make it permanent).
 
hoops156 said:
lol what rumor did you find that at
Click to expand...

TheOriginalCane said:
Started with 25. Used 2 for Fall 2021 enrollments (Justice, Cody). We have no additional "countbacks", we maxed out a couple of years ago. If the NCAA finalizes the "up to 7 transfer replacements" initial counter rule, then we should SHOULD have up to 30 initial counters TOTAL.

Here is what would need to happen:

1. Miami has to lose 7 transfers to other schools (not just early NFL guys like Rambo), so this is likely to happen. [EDIT: don't count your chickens before they have hatched, Miami might LOSE 7 guys, but then they have to transfer and enroll somewhere else for Miami to be eligible for a replacement IC, there are/were a lot of guys stuck in the Portal].
2. Miami could sign 30, but AT LEAST SEVEN would have to be transfers, so the transfer portion is likely to happen.
3. Miami could sign 30 portal kids, but this is unlikely to happen.
4. Miami's IC cap is 23 kids from high school AND JuCo (for instance, if we sign Jeffrey M'Ba, who I believe is JuCo and would NOT be a transfer, though he is a bit older).
5. Miami could exceed 7 transfers, but it would reduce the number of HS/JuCo kids we could sign.

There MIGHT be a need to keep one eye on the 85 COUNTERS rule too, as we will have to get back to 85 total post-COVID, but I think Miami will lose enough guys to the NFL, transfer, etc. that we probably do not have to worry about this. But if EVERY eligible player came back (Tyrique, D'Eriq, the 10th-year senior OL from Houston), then we might be close. To be honest with you, COVID made me lazy, I haven't had to monitor the "regular" counter numbers in a year, and I need to get back into the IC classroom!

EDIT: sorry for being late, gentlemen, I was just enjoying a few restful hours between the (finally) official announcement and the obligatory press conference. Won't happen again, I just set a Google alert for "Miami" and "Initial Counters"...
Click to expand...

you mean to tell me we can sign 30 total (with portal) potentially? So why have we had this talk about "we're going to have a really small HS class" when the numbers support a class of maybe 20? The rest portals.


No_Fly_Zone said:
Good stuff here. As far as our recent portal guys, by my unofficial count I know we had these guys enter the portal this year...

1. J. Holley - Charlotte (signed)
2. J. Peyton
3. M. Pope
4. D. Wiggins - UL commit
5. C. Williams
6. Q. Williams - Marshall commit
7. C. Gaynor
8. B. Jennings - IU commit
9. G. Hall
10. K. Herbert

I'm not sure if the committed dudes have signed or how exactly the timing of that works in portal world. I also think maybe another OL and a DB hit the portal at some point, but they were too trash for me to remember their names right now (and might have been last cycle)?
Click to expand...

I'd say Gaynor, Hall, Pope, Peyton will defeinitely land somewhere. Probably Cam as well.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
CaneSpurt doesn't know ****.

What in THEE fvck are they talking about?

25 - starting spot for annual ICs
(2) - ICs for 2021-22 school year used by August 2021 enrollees (Justice, Cody)
+7 - NCAA one-year rule change (see article below)
---
30 - or did I forget how to do math?


www.cbssports.com

NCAA Council approves proposal to replace up to seven transfers in expanded recruiting classes

Roster management has become a big issue for college football programs
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com
Click to expand...
It's the 85 limit that's the peg. 82 current scholarship players minus 9 (seniors) minus 6 (players eligible to return but participated in Senior Day) = 67 returners leaving 18 spots open. However, there is the +7 NCAA one-year rule change bringing us to 25 open (assuming we remove 7 scholarship players via removal or transfer)
 
Advertisement
TheOriginalCane said:
CaneSpurt doesn't know ****.

What in THEE fvck are they talking about?

25 - starting spot for annual ICs
(2) - ICs for 2021-22 school year used by August 2021 enrollees (Justice, Cody)
+7 - NCAA one-year rule change (see article below)
---
30 - or did I forget how to do math?


www.cbssports.com

NCAA Council approves proposal to replace up to seven transfers in expanded recruiting classes

Roster management has become a big issue for college football programs
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com
Click to expand...

Is the new Aussie punter (Foley) on scholarship? That could be one more IC for 2022. The math still doesn't work, though.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
We have to monitor both limits. The 85 "total counter" rule is back, and the 25 "initial counter" rule has been enhanced for one year (hopefully they will make it permanent).
Click to expand...
Sure but we have 14 kids on the roster that would have to leave for us to sign 30. We would also have to land better kids than those leaving.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
Is the new Aussie punter (Foley) on scholarship? That could be one more IC for 2022. The math still doesn't work, though.
Click to expand...


It was my understanding that he was a walk-on, and you only need one year of residency at a school to be able to NOT count as an Initial Counter. Everyone who gets a scholarship counts as a TOTAL counter (85 rule), but not everyone counts as an INITIAL counter (25 rule).

And, right on cue, we have a couple of "we have to worry about the 85 counters" guys...happens every year around this time, and yet Miami has never gone over 85 (and has rarely been near 85) before we start handing out walk-on scholarships like candy.

Again, let's be clear. We CAN take 30, but I never said we would. Even if we sign 30 a week from now, the 85 only counts as to enrollment. So if we don't enroll everyone in January, that gives us all spring and all summer for attrition.

Oh, and wait wait...are we going to also get the porsters who tell us we have to count the walk-ons as returning recruited scholarship players? Because this is also the time of the year for that one.

We'll get to 85. For the COVID year (2020), we only had 9 returning "seniors" (who got a free year and thus could have returned in 2021), so it's not like we are over-encumbered by 6th year seniors.
 
As far as counters only, and without regard for the 85 scholarship limit, the 25 counters for 2022 stand this way:
(3) Justice Oluwaseun, Cody Brown, and Nelson Foley (Stevenson, Johnson, and Rambo counted against the 2021 counters)
(8) HS commits (Rogers, Graves, Bissainthe, Horton, Brown, Williams, Ibieta, Carswell)
Leaves us 14 counters.

I believe we can get up to an additional 7 in the portal for 7 who have portaled out, but I'm not 100% on that. But I am 99% on the 11 counters already taken.
 
Advertisement
JayCane20 said:
No cap either way
Click to expand...


I think you may be right, that all signees (even above 25) could be HS kids. I thought that an earlier provision was "portal-for-portal" replacement, but I am not seeing that language in the final enactment.

HOWEVER, there is one additional loophole that we did NOT factor into the analysis...nobody in the Portal ALREADY (the Dee Wiggins rule?) can be replaced:



This waiver will allow those programs to replace up to seven departing transfers above the 25-player limit. Schools will only be allowed to replace players who enter the portal after either the end of the institution’s fall term or Dec. 15, 2021, whichever is earlier, a source told The Athletic. Schools will only be allowed to replace players who are academically eligible at their new school.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I think you may be right, that all signees (even above 25) could be HS kids. I thought that an earlier provision was "portal-for-portal" replacement, but I am not seeing that language in the final enactment.

HOWEVER, there is one additional loophole that we did NOT factor into the analysis...nobody in the Portal ALREADY (the Dee Wiggins rule?) can be replaced:



This waiver will allow those programs to replace up to seven departing transfers above the 25-player limit. Schools will only be allowed to replace players who enter the portal after either the end of the institution’s fall term or Dec. 15, 2021, whichever is earlier, a source told The Athletic. Schools will only be allowed to replace players who are academically eligible at their new school.
Click to expand...

That's one **** of a catch...
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I think you may be right, that all signees (even above 25) could be HS kids. I thought that an earlier provision was "portal-for-portal" replacement, but I am not seeing that language in the final enactment.

HOWEVER, there is one additional loophole that we did NOT factor into the analysis...nobody in the Portal ALREADY (the Dee Wiggins rule?) can be replaced:



This waiver will allow those programs to replace up to seven departing transfers above the 25-player limit. Schools will only be allowed to replace players who enter the portal after either the end of the institution’s fall term or Dec. 15, 2021, whichever is earlier, a source told The Athletic. Schools will only be allowed to replace players who are academically eligible at their new school.
Click to expand...
Dec 15 for ENTERING the portal... that's pretty lame. Can we make these dudes remove their name and then re-enter it if they haven't picked a spot to transfer to or signed yet? Might technically count and 100% be worth it to receive the additional 7 for transfers.
 
Advertisement
Not Sure how right this is.... Itdoesn't really list all the covid year stuff. More how long they've actually been in the program.
MiamiRoster2022_a.jpg
 
Advertisement
Back
Top