The REAL hole that we are trying to climb out of!!!!

[M3N]

I created a frequency table to put players into 6 categories. Hopefully this can shed some light on the situation we are currently dealing because of past issues. These roster issues are among the worse I have ever diagnoses. This program was literally dead! It just was not in a deep hole...It was literally dead.

1. Have they made it to campus?
2. Were they a major contributor?
3. Were they a minor contributor/ role player?
4. Did the contribute little to nothing?
5. Did they eventually transfer?
6. Were they kicked off the team?

Either it was a simple "YES" or "NO"

Determining who was a "Major Contributor": a player who started for more than 5 games, multiple games through career, multiple years, etc..
Determining who was a "Minor Contributor/role": a played sparingly, mayber started a few games in career, a substitute, etc...
N/A: some guys i just could find information on

[/URL][/IMG]

2008 Class: Of the 33 players----

Notable contributors: Cookie, B. Harris, Telemaque, Regis, MRob, Spence, BWash, Jacory, Benji, Street, Collier

12: players were Major contributors
11: (4)players did not make it to campus, (6)transferred, or (1)were kicked off

2009 Class: Of the 18 players-----

Notable Contributors: Ray Armstrong, McGee, Green, Mike James, Miller

5/6: players were major contributors
9: (1)players either did not make it to campus, (6)transferred, or were (2)kicked off

[/URL][/IMG]

2010 Class: Of 30 players-----

Notable Contributors: SteMo, Eduardo, Linder, Mongo, Clive, Rogers, McDermott, Ford, Bunche, Corneilius, Gaines.....

14: players were major contributors
15: players either did not make it to campus, transferred, or were kicked off the team

2011 Class: AL GOLDENS 1st class: Created in 11 days

Notable Major Contributors: Crawford, Finnie, Chick, Perryman, Dorsett, Scott, Botts, Goudis, OP, King, Armbrister....

14: players are major contributors
7: (2)players either did not make it to campus, (2)transferred, (3)or were kicked off

One last wild stat:

Under Shannon:

Major contributors were: 36% (2008), 27.8% (2009), and 46% (2010)----- Those numbers are god awful

Under AG:

Major contributors were: 73.7% (2011) and this was the mans smallest class that was put together in 11 days.

I DONT WANT THIS TO BE A "TALENT VS COACHING' ARGUMENT.

 

[Cane Dynasty]

Admin doesn't give a fvck about football. That's why it's so hard to get these kids in.

 

[Classic]

You've got numbers and red text, and your argument isn't anti-Golden. Expect to get torched.

But I appreciate the work.

Golden inherited a tire fire. He hasn't done what we wanted as quickly as we wanted, but I've still got some faith.

 

[M3N]

You've got numbers and red text, and your argument isn't anti-Golden. Expect to get torched.

But I appreciate the work.

Golden inherited a tire fire. He hasn't done what we wanted as quickly as we wanted, but I've still got some faith.

Listen - just like everyone else, I want the canes to WIN and win bad. I particularly don't like his style of defense and a few of his buddy's, but I'm also not ignorant to what shape our program was left in before AG arrived. We were left the biggest stinkiest piece of horse **** by Randy. The number speak for themselves.

"fixing" Miami's roster and re shaping the program is a very very tall task.

 

[M3N]

Admin doesn't give a fvck about football. That's why it's so hard to get these kids in.

That was not my overall point....

 

[bomb]

I just went cross eyed.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

You've got numbers and red text, and your argument isn't anti-Golden. Expect to get torched.

But I appreciate the work.

Golden inherited a tire fire. He hasn't done what we wanted as quickly as we wanted, but I've still got some faith.

Listen - just like everyone else, I want the canes to WIN and win bad. I particularly don't like his style of defense and a few of his buddy's, but I'm also not ignorant to what shape our program was left in before AG arrived. We were left the biggest stinkiest piece of horse **** by Randy. The number speak for themselves.

"fixing" Miami's roster and re shaping the program is a very very tall task.

It's a tall task under normal circumstances... Now add the bull**** NCAA 3 year investigation and the task becomes monumental.

 

[M3N]

You've got numbers and red text, and your argument isn't anti-Golden. Expect to get torched.

But I appreciate the work.

Golden inherited a tire fire. He hasn't done what we wanted as quickly as we wanted, but I've still got some faith.

Listen - just like everyone else, I want the canes to WIN and win bad. I particularly don't like his style of defense and a few of his buddy's, but I'm also not ignorant to what shape our program was left in before AG arrived. We were left the biggest stinkiest piece of horse **** by Randy. The number speak for themselves.

"fixing" Miami's roster and re shaping the program is a very very tall task.

It's a tall task under normal circumstances... Now add the bull**** NCAA 3 year investigation and the task becomes monumental.

Exactly....

 

[Hstokes1447]

This will be the very first year that this team will have the luxury to redshirt and develop a large amount of the class.

2011 Class
16 Commits made it in
5 Redshirts

2012 Class
31 Commits made it in
13 Redshirts

2013 Class
16 Commits made it in
4 Redshirts

Until this team does not need to rely on 60% of the recruiting class to play, we can not expect to see a championship caliber team.

 

[moshated305]

Problem is I am seeing more of the same.

2011 Class
Grimble
Finnie
Grooms
Williams
Johnson
Kinard
Paul

2012 Class
Jean-Louis
Lockhart
Dilliard
Briscoe
Davis
Terry
Ivery
Carter

2013 Class
Griffin
Bond


All kids who either never made it in, were kicked off or left the team. That is not even factoring in whether any of the other ones have actually made an impact here.

 

[OBLIVION]

I think what would add some substance to the topic. Is taking other big programs that went through long droughts for whatever reason and their turn around.

Oklahoma, 4 years leading up to Stoops being hired went 17-27. After going 7-5 his 1st season. Stoops won a NC title his 2nd season and played in 2 others in his 4th and 5th year. Also won 11 or more games a season in that span.

USC, 4 years leading up to Carroll being hired went 25-23. After going 6-6 his 1st season. Carroll went 11-2 his second season and was AP NC his 3rd season. Along with winning it in his 4th and playing for it again in his 5th. 7 straight season of 11 wins and more. After his 1st year.

Those are just 2 programs. That if you look further back than just the 4 years prior to the coaches above arrival. You will see that they have been bad for some time. Now i know it will be hard if not impossible to come up with the recruiting classes. For these 2 examples, because the **** wasn't popping like it is now, but i imagine those teams weren't loaded with talent.

I know that some will try to use the cloud and they didn't have Randy. The Shula/Saban 2007 class wasn't the greatest class either. Check out that class and see how guys panned out in that one. Alabama was put on 5 years probation and 2 year bowl ban in 2002. Shula best class was his last prior to getting fired. Now i didn't go in and look how those guys panned out from the 06 class, but shula wasn't exactly lighting **** up. That is another program that went through some **** prior to Saban taking over.

Maybe if M3N can or will he can use them as an example as to how they went through the Dubose/Franchione/Price/Shula and Ncaa drama to Saban and 3 titles in 4 years.

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

Props for putting all the work in. 2011 was his first class so it's not all surprising that they are playing over the guys who were already here. Most new coaches weed out guys they don't think fit. The drastic spike in the contribution % falls in line with that.

My only quibble is that the 2011 class wasn't put together in 11 days. Or are you subtracting dead/quiet period days from the time he was hired in December through signing day?

 

[Joecane]

Problem is I am seeing more of the same.

2011 Class
Grimble
Finnie
Grooms
Williams
Johnson
Kinard
Paul

2012 Class
Jean-Louis
Lockhart
Dilliard
Briscoe
Davis
Terry
Ivery
Carter

2013 Class
Griffin
Bond


All kids who either never made it in, were kicked off or left the team. That is not even factoring in whether any of the other ones have actually made an impact here.

Forgot Lockley

 

[moshated305]

I think what would add some substance to the topic. Is taking other big programs that went through long droughts for whatever reason and their turn around.

Oklahoma, 4 years leading up to Stoops being hired went 17-27. After going 7-5 his 1st season. Stoops won a NC title his 2nd season and played in 2 others in his 4th and 5th year. Also won 11 or more games a season in that span.

USC, 4 years leading up to Carroll being hired went 25-23. After going 6-6 his 1st season. Carroll went 11-2 his second season and was AP NC his 3rd season. Along with winning it in his 4th and playing for it again in his 5th. 7 straight season of 11 wins and more. After his 1st year.

Those are just 2 programs. That if you look further back than just the 4 years prior to the coaches above arrival. You will see that they have been bad for some time. Now i know it will be hard if not impossible to come up with the recruiting classes. For these 2 examples, because the **** wasn't popping like it is now, but i imagine those teams weren't loaded with talent.

I know that some will try to use the cloud and they didn't have Randy. The Shula/Saban 2007 class wasn't the greatest class either. Check out that class and see how guys panned out in that one. Alabama was put on 5 years probation and 2 year bowl ban in 2002. Shula best class was his last prior to getting fired. Now i didn't go in and look how those guys panned out from the 06 class, but shula wasn't exactly lighting **** up. That is another program that went through some **** prior to Saban taking over.

Maybe if M3N can or will he can use them as an example as to how they went through the Dubose/Franchione/Price/Shula and Ncaa drama to Saban and 3 titles in 4 years.

Very good points. People try act like Miami is the only school to ever fall on hard times. It doesn't take 4+ years to turn around a program. Most coaches see major improvements in year 2. This next year will be very telling for Golden. Can Miami even be competitive in games against good to great teams? That is another issue I am seeing. Usually a great coach can get his team up to compete or even beat teams they shouldn't but Miami hasn't beaten anyone they shouldn't have under Golden. It hasn't been close really.

 

[niner]

I think what would add some substance to the topic. Is taking other big programs that went through long droughts for whatever reason and their turn around.

Oklahoma, 4 years leading up to Stoops being hired went 17-27. After going 7-5 his 1st season. Stoops won a NC title his 2nd season and played in 2 others in his 4th and 5th year. Also won 11 or more games a season in that span.

USC, 4 years leading up to Carroll being hired went 25-23. After going 6-6 his 1st season. Carroll went 11-2 his second season and was AP NC his 3rd season. Along with winning it in his 4th and playing for it again in his 5th. 7 straight season of 11 wins and more. After his 1st year.

Those are just 2 programs. That if you look further back than just the 4 years prior to the coaches above arrival. You will see that they have been bad for some time. Now i know it will be hard if not impossible to come up with the recruiting classes. For these 2 examples, because the **** wasn't popping like it is now, but i imagine those teams weren't loaded with talent.

I know that some will try to use the cloud and they didn't have Randy. The Shula/Saban 2007 class wasn't the greatest class either. Check out that class and see how guys panned out in that one. Alabama was put on 5 years probation and 2 year bowl ban in 2002. Shula best class was his last prior to getting fired. Now i didn't go in and look how those guys panned out from the 06 class, but shula wasn't exactly lighting **** up. That is another program that went through some **** prior to Saban taking over.

Maybe if M3N can or will he can use them as an example as to how they went through the Dubose/Franchione/Price/Shula and Ncaa drama to Saban and 3 titles in 4 years.

Very good points. People try act like Miami is the only school to ever fall on hard times. It doesn't take 4+ years to turn around a program. Most coaches see major improvements in year 2. This next year will be very telling for Golden. Can Miami even be competitive in games against good to great teams? That is another issue I am seeing. Usually a great coach can get his team up to compete or even beat teams they shouldn't but Miami hasn't beaten anyone they shouldn't have under Golden. It hasn't been close really.

There's not much to disagree with here in regards to those coaches, which are considered great. The only one of those that has the closest resemblance as far as situation is Alabama. If they went on 5 year probation in 2002 and had 2 bowl bans, Nick Saben (which is the highest paid coach ) was the coach AFTER the team was punished. Alabama won the title in 2009, 7 years later, under what some consider the best coach.

Mentioning the cloud over and over doesn't make it any less true. It had an effect on recruiting.

Our punishment started August 25, 2011. This is going to year 3.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

I think we have seen more attrition and non-qualifiers under Golden first 3 years than any coach at UM... Off the top of my head he isn't doing any better than his predecessors... It's a shame that Coker has been the best coach of the last 3 hires by a great degree... Anyway enough with the excuses... Most of you didn't want the prior staff's players anyway so this shouldn't be an issue...

 

[moshated305]

Saban had Bama relevant again in his second year. They curbed stomped UGA during their "black out" and rode that momentum to a BCS appearance. Again, I have yet to see that type of "hope" under Golden. I am not talking about a season, just one game is all I am asking for against a top level team. We have improved in some areas but we have been embarrassed in big games largely becsuse his defense can't stop anyone.

Also, USC was a mess as well. They were awful in the 80s and 90s. What Carroll did there was remarkable. They lost 13 straight to ND and 8 straight to UCLA during that time period. Imagine Miami going through those type of losing streaks against UF and FSU. My point here is Miami's issues aren't weighted heavier than what other struggling powers have seen. Yes the cloud hurt but how is Penn State able to stay afloat facing some the worse sanctions CFB has ever seen?

 

[RBhurricane87]

I think what would add some substance to the topic. Is taking other big programs that went through long droughts for whatever reason and their turn around.

Oklahoma, 4 years leading up to Stoops being hired went 17-27. After going 7-5 his 1st season. Stoops won a NC title his 2nd season and played in 2 others in his 4th and 5th year. Also won 11 or more games a season in that span.

USC, 4 years leading up to Carroll being hired went 25-23. After going 6-6 his 1st season. Carroll went 11-2 his second season and was AP NC his 3rd season. Along with winning it in his 4th and playing for it again in his 5th. 7 straight season of 11 wins and more. After his 1st year.

Those are just 2 programs. That if you look further back than just the 4 years prior to the coaches above arrival. You will see that they have been bad for some time. Now i know it will be hard if not impossible to come up with the recruiting classes. For these 2 examples, because the **** wasn't popping like it is now, but i imagine those teams weren't loaded with talent.

I know that some will try to use the cloud and they didn't have Randy. The Shula/Saban 2007 class wasn't the greatest class either. Check out that class and see how guys panned out in that one. Alabama was put on 5 years probation and 2 year bowl ban in 2002. Shula best class was his last prior to getting fired. Now i didn't go in and look how those guys panned out from the 06 class, but shula wasn't exactly lighting **** up. That is another program that went through some **** prior to Saban taking over.

Maybe if M3N can or will he can use them as an example as to how they went through the Dubose/Franchione/Price/Shula and Ncaa drama to Saban and 3 titles in 4 years.

Very good points. People try act like Miami is the only school to ever fall on hard times. It doesn't take 4+ years to turn around a program. Most coaches see major improvements in year 2. This next year will be very telling for Golden. Can Miami even be competitive in games against good to great teams? That is another issue I am seeing. Usually a great coach can get his team up to compete or even beat teams they shouldn't but Miami hasn't beaten anyone they shouldn't have under Golden. It hasn't been close really.

What could be said is that in those situations (Oklahoma, USC,...) the talent was there but the coaching wasn't, so once the "coaching" showed up, then you saw success.

In our case, neither the talent nor the coaching was there (2003-2010).

Now we have some talent, all we need is for the coaching to catch up.

 

[poncho0091]

I think what would add some substance to the topic. Is taking other big programs that went through long droughts for whatever reason and their turn around.

Oklahoma, 4 years leading up to Stoops being hired went 17-27. After going 7-5 his 1st season. Stoops won a NC title his 2nd season and played in 2 others in his 4th and 5th year. Also won 11 or more games a season in that span.

USC, 4 years leading up to Carroll being hired went 25-23. After going 6-6 his 1st season. Carroll went 11-2 his second season and was AP NC his 3rd season. Along with winning it in his 4th and playing for it again in his 5th. 7 straight season of 11 wins and more. After his 1st year.

Those are just 2 programs. That if you look further back than just the 4 years prior to the coaches above arrival. You will see that they have been bad for some time. Now i know it will be hard if not impossible to come up with the recruiting classes. For these 2 examples, because the **** wasn't popping like it is now, but i imagine those teams weren't loaded with talent.

I know that some will try to use the cloud and they didn't have Randy. The Shula/Saban 2007 class wasn't the greatest class either. Check out that class and see how guys panned out in that one. Alabama was put on 5 years probation and 2 year bowl ban in 2002. Shula best class was his last prior to getting fired. Now i didn't go in and look how those guys panned out from the 06 class, but shula wasn't exactly lighting **** up. That is another program that went through some **** prior to Saban taking over.

Maybe if M3N can or will he can use them as an example as to how they went through the Dubose/Franchione/Price/Shula and Ncaa drama to Saban and 3 titles in 4 years.

Very good points. People try act like Miami is the only school to ever fall on hard times. It doesn't take 4+ years to turn around a program. Most coaches see major improvements in year 2. This next year will be very telling for Golden. Can Miami even be competitive in games against good to great teams? That is another issue I am seeing. Usually a great coach can get his team up to compete or even beat teams they shouldn't but Miami hasn't beaten anyone they shouldn't have under Golden. It hasn't been close really.

There's not much to disagree with here in regards to those coaches, which are considered great. The only one of those that has the closest resemblance as far as situation is Alabama. If they went on 5 year probation in 2002 and had 2 bowl bans, Nick Saben (which is the highest paid coach ) was the coach AFTER the team was punished. Alabama won the title in 2009, 7 years later, under what some consider the best coach.

Mentioning the cloud over and over doesn't make it any less true. It had an effect on recruiting.

Our punishment started August 25, 2011. This is going to year 3.

Problem is it didn't take Saban 7 years.

 

[OldManCane]

When I was a young man I used to always say to my homies..... where there's a hole, there's a goal.

That was talking about young ladies though, not football. So I guess I don't see the connection you're trying to make here.