The Problems Our Defense had Against K-State

Cityboy4life82

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Our problem with KSU did not have a lot to do with our players not being talented. We are missing pressure from upfront and that is a huge reason for our bad defense. Put K State only threw the ball 11 times that game.

After looking at the film we simply got out coached. Sometimes those things happen. One possible reason may be due to our youth. Calling a complex defense may be too much for our young players. Here are a few things I would like to point out.


Play Number 1


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Pre Snap- Coach Snyder knows what our defensive schemes are. The UM Player circled in red always flares out to cover the flat in a soft zone. This will give the OC two great options. The OC can flare out the slot or run a post corner with the slot setting a pick leaving the middle wide open. Boston last week ran a pick while KSU decided to flare out the slot.


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As you can see in this picture the UM player runs to his soft zone in the flat while KSU flares the slot.


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KSU designed this play to go exactly to the space where the UM player vacated.


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Look at the safety and Corner. They gave up so much ground because of the coverage that was called. The UM player that runs to the flats is useless and I will explain why later on in this post.


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This is a altered pic by me. I moved the players into what would have been a good scheme to play. By moving the man covering the slot closer,it would cut off the passing lane for the slant. The QB would have to get the ball over him and between the safety that I moved up closer. It leaves a smaller window to complete that pass. Also if they try the bubble screen he is in position to blow it up. Even though I moved my safety up he can still cover his zones.



Play Number 2


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Pre Snap of the play where the QB rumbles for big yards



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This is the result of play number 2. Huge running lanes open ups.



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Here is why that play works so well for KSU. Simply count the number of men in the Box. KSU went 5 wide in this formation in order to spread us out. The way our LB is lined up he becomes useless again as mentioned before. This is a very easy concept. There are more blockers than defensive players.


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This is another picture I altered. We should never allow a team to line up 5 wide no protection and not make them pay. As soon as we see that formation I would suggest bringing our men up to the line of scrimmage. I moved the safety down also. You can compare the difference from the pictures above. My philosophy is that I am not going to let you get that play off. Either I get a sack or your QB is getting punished (knocking him out the game) So I am telling the OC to pick your poison. We could also disguise our blitz by either bringing both line backers and dropping a DT or End into zone or zone Blitz one LB. This will stop the hot read if the OC wants to get cute. Either we should not allow the Qb to sit back there and chill.



Play Number 3


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Pre Snap.



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Again count the numbers in the box. We were two far off the ball. which created huge running lanes on this touchdown




Play Number 4



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Pre Snap of our defense vs the pass


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Remember earlier I spoke about how the player with the red circle is useless? Any good OC knows that the player will run to the flats and everyone else will play zone. Instead of running the slot into the flats on a wheel route like on the first play the OC altered the play and ran the slot underneath. The OC knew that player would run to the flats making him useless.


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Like clock work that player runs to the flats and KSU gets a very easy match up and throw.



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Not sure why we just did not match up in man with zone underneath. That would stop the inside route and would still allow us to defend the bubble screen or flats. You make your self vulnerable to the wheel route but Bush has the speed to eat that up.



Play Number 5



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Pre snap- Again count the numbers in the box. Another player is useless. Not sure why the player circled in red is camping out that far away, This play is a simple numbers game.



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The result from that play



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Another picture I altered. My suggestion would be to line up like this. We had protection from the deep pass by using the endzone as an extra defender. Not sure why we let them run so freely.
 
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Nice post city.

didn't Golden say he was going to have to change some thing systematically?
 
Your "correction" of play 4 is exactly what I'd like to see more of. 2 high man under, LBs zone (the zones also becomes spys for QB draws and scrambles.
And play 1 is just downright retarded how we lined up.

We really do have the worst scheme in the ACC. Very bad coaching & we'll continue to get exposed on a weekly basis.

Just sucks because I really bought into what Golden's doing... but D'Onofrio hasn't even shown glimpses of being a competent coordinator.
 
We are playing a scared defense period.

Guys are being told to run to a certain spot on the field. They are thinking way too much.

Tell them to tackle, hit, pressure, etc...


This zone **** is killing me
 
You are cherry picking individual plays and telling us how we could have stopped those individual plays, because you know the result of those individual plays.....good for you. What if the TE would have ran a post route on play #5? What if they would have released the FB on a flag route? Who would be there to cover them? It comes down to being GAP sound and that has been the problem thus far. Quit over analyzing.
 
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You do realize that three of the blockers you listed in your description are also possible receivers don't you?
 
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Your "correction" of play 4 is exactly what I'd like to see more of. 2 high man under, LBs zone (the zones also becomes spys for QB draws and scrambles.
And play 1 is just downright retarded how we lined up.


We really do have the worst scheme in the ACC. Very bad coaching & we'll continue to get exposed on a weekly basis.

Just sucks because I really bought into what Golden's doing... but D'Onofrio hasn't even shown glimpses of being a competent coordinator.

Explain?
 
You are cherry picking individual plays and telling us how we could have stopped those individual plays, because you know the result of those individual plays.....good for you. What if the TE would have ran a post route on play #5? What if they would have released the FB on a flag route? Who would be there to cover them? It comes down to being GAP sound and that has been the problem thus far. Quit over analyzing. You sure do sound smart though.

UM did not do themselves any favors against K State. They played behind in the "number game" for the entire game. K State kept it very simple and had more more blockers than UM had defenders. That is pretty much how we loss the game.

Those plays I showed were what K State ran over and over.
 
Your "correction" of play 4 is exactly what I'd like to see more of. 2 high man under, LBs zone (the zones also becomes spys for QB draws and scrambles.
And play 1 is just downright retarded how we lined up.


We really do have the worst scheme in the ACC. Very bad coaching & we'll continue to get exposed on a weekly basis.

Just sucks because I really bought into what Golden's doing... but D'Onofrio hasn't even shown glimpses of being a competent coordinator.

Explain?



LULZ
 
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Cityboy4>onifrio. Another great post!
I rather bring the pressure and lose then sit back and let the oc cherry pick.
 
You do realize that three of the blockers you listed in your description are also possible receivers don't you genius?

The receivers were decoys. In all those pictures we were out manned in the box, meaning K State had more blockers than defenders. To overcome that a team would need a disruptive defensive line. We have not shown this season that we can be disruptive on the defensive line. So in what was essentially a one on one battle, K State won.

If I had to ask Coach D'O a question it would be why he did not attempt to even the numbers up front? Was it because he does not trust his secondary or are the team as a whole to young to understand complex schemes?
 
Play 4 has me confused. I don't remember the play so only going off the pictures but it appears we are in our base 4-3, both guys in the slot are LBs right? Then it looks like everyone is playing man to man but the player in the slot (on the far side of the field). Our safeties are playing ridiculously deep.

Also part of the reason (as shown) why they gashed us in the run game was a simple numbers game. We would have 6 in the box (for some odd reason) and they would have 6 on the line, QB, RB. You are never going to win that battle.
 
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You do realize that three of the blockers you listed in your description are also possible receivers don't you genius?

The receivers were decoys. In all those pictures we were out manned in the box, meaning K State had more blockers than defenders. To overcome that a team would need a disruptive defensive line. We have not shown this season that we can be disruptive on the defensive line. So in what was essentially a one on one battle, K State won.

If I had to ask Coach D'O a question it would be why he did not attempt to even the numbers up front? Was it because he does not trust his secondary or are the team as a whole to young to understand complex schemes?

My presumption is that it's a lack of trust. We were obviously outnumbered or, at best, even-numbered in the box. We flashed some different stuff in the 3rd quarter, but it was too late and as soon as we did, they hit the seam. Right now, we're in a pick your poison scenario. If I had to pick my poison, though, it'd be getting beat in man on the outside.
 
Cityboy-
On some of those zone read plays could he stunt one or both ends so that you can have the QB flushed laterally which plays to our strength at LB. We seem to have Lbs who can run sideline-to-sideline so we need to find away to get plays bounced out.
 
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Most college defenses arent that complicated. If you're a college OC, you design an offense to beat the opponent's core. If I were formulating a gameplan for Miami, I'm utilizing plays that will beat cover 3 and man under. Each play has a read for cover 3 and an option for man. Then by using motion or presnap cues it is up to your quarterback to recognize. That does not mean that cover 3 is bad and cover 3 can't stop the play, and that's what separates great defenses. By athlete and study they know how to squeeze your plays to render them ineffective. We're not going to change our system. The hope is that as these guys get more familiar they will recognize and react to these plays better and thus stop them. Simpler is better for now. They will never gain the necessary traction if we keep changing. Even as we gain experience it's not like we will stop running cover 3 as if cover 3 is a bad D. We'll just have better ways to get to it and disguise it, and we'll have just enough that the quarterback can less reliably predict it.
 
Most college defenses arent that complicated. If you're a college OC, you design an offense to beat the opponent's core. If I were formulating a gameplan for Miami, I'm utilizing plays that will beat cover 3 and man under. Each play has a read for cover 3 and an option for man. Then by using motion or presnap cues it is up to your quarterback to recognize. That does not mean that cover 3 is bad and cover 3 can't stop the play, and that's what separates great defenses. By athlete and study they know how to squeeze your plays to render them ineffective. We're not going to change our system. The hope is that as these guys get more familiar they will recognize and react to these plays better and thus stop them. Simpler is better for now. They will never gain the necessary traction if we keep changing. Even as we gain experience it's not like we will stop running cover 3 as if cover 3 is a bad D. We'll just have better ways to get to it and disguise it, and we'll have just enough that the quarterback can less reliably predict it.

In a thread Lu Pointed out that there are essentially five plays that could be UM. Those five plays can be ran from various sets. I forgot what thread it was in. Maybe he would post the link
 
Most college defenses arent that complicated. If you're a college OC, you design an offense to beat the opponent's core. If I were formulating a gameplan for Miami, I'm utilizing plays that will beat cover 3 and man under. Each play has a read for cover 3 and an option for man. Then by using motion or presnap cues it is up to your quarterback to recognize. That does not mean that cover 3 is bad and cover 3 can't stop the play, and that's what separates great defenses. By athlete and study they know how to squeeze your plays to render them ineffective. We're not going to change our system. The hope is that as these guys get more familiar they will recognize and react to these plays better and thus stop them. Simpler is better for now. They will never gain the necessary traction if we keep changing. Even as we gain experience it's not like we will stop running cover 3 as if cover 3 is a bad D. We'll just have better ways to get to it and disguise it, and we'll have just enough that the quarterback can less reliably predict it.

In a thread Lu Pointed out that there are essentially five plays that could be UM. Those five plays can be ran from various sets. I forgot what thread it was in. Maybe he would post the link

I don't remember exactly, but it was the same thread/post where I mentioned that OCs are dominating D'Ono right now (and will continue to) based on math (numbers) and geography (location). Your original post in this thread works to put pictures behind that concept. Like PMC said, it's pretty rare that you're going to get anything too exotic in College, but it'd be nice to at least see a few variations from our base. Regardless, so long as D'ono allows his defense to be dictated because he chooses to extend the game, hope to get lucky on some 3rd and mids, and have the offense win the game for us, we're going to see more or less similar stuff.
 
Most college defenses arent that complicated. If you're a college OC, you design an offense to beat the opponent's core. If I were formulating a gameplan for Miami, I'm utilizing plays that will beat cover 3 and man under. Each play has a read for cover 3 and an option for man. Then by using motion or presnap cues it is up to your quarterback to recognize. That does not mean that cover 3 is bad and cover 3 can't stop the play, and that's what separates great defenses. By athlete and study they know how to squeeze your plays to render them ineffective. We're not going to change our system. The hope is that as these guys get more familiar they will recognize and react to these plays better and thus stop them. Simpler is better for now. They will never gain the necessary traction if we keep changing. Even as we gain experience it's not like we will stop running cover 3 as if cover 3 is a bad D. We'll just have better ways to get to it and disguise it, and we'll have just enough that the quarterback can less reliably predict it.

In a thread Lu Pointed out that there are essentially five plays that could be UM. Those five plays can be ran from various sets. I forgot what thread it was in. Maybe he would post the link

I don't remember exactly, but it was the same thread/post where I mentioned that OCs are dominating D'Ono right now (and will continue to) based on math (numbers) and geography (location). Your original post in this thread works to put pictures behind that concept. Like PMC said, it's pretty rare that you're going to get anything too exotic in College, but it'd be nice to at least see a few variations from our base. Regardless, so long as D'ono allows his defense to be dictated because he chooses to extend the game, hope to get lucky on some 3rd and mids, and have the offense win the game for us, we're going to see more or less similar stuff.


Lu, I get the feeling that even a couple years from now when we have the athletes to run this D, that coach D'ono will be outclassed in games with similar athletes. Seems like he never really knows how to even take away the basics of any OC, goin as far as to say he never saw them run certain plays. I think back to maryland and even with missing players, Crowton is KNOWN as a screen guy, and we looked utterly unprepared to stop his dink and dunk offense. thats just one example, what are your thoughts on that, and going forward, or is he just soo handcuffed that he has no time to gameplan and we just look terrible regardless
 
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