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The Hall of Fame case for Howard Schnellenberger

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The only case you even need to make is that George Welsh is in. That said, most people can't even identify what city the College Football Hall of Fame is located in so I'm not going to cry too many tears for ol' Howard.
 
College football hall of fame, especially when comes to coaches, is about being part of the fraternity. Howard wasn't a good frat boy. Definitely deserves to be recognized and hopefully will be soon.
 
The sad truth also still remains that if Howard hadn't left that he'd probably be regarded as a college legend on par with the all time greats and not what he is today- beloved by us but largely forgotten by the rest of the sports world. Case in point, that this article even had to be written and that there's not more of a national uproar about this slight from the HoF.
 
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I had no idea he was not in. Nor did I realize how few of our greats from the NC days were in. There might just be a little anti-U going on here. Why did the change the rule about winning percentages?

If you ever want to see how great the hate is for The U, keep in mind that Howard coached with the god of Bama and is be big part of the Bama lore. The fact that starting the Cane dynasty is a bigger sin than even Bama sainthood can balance off says everything. Never mind that fact that he changed college football into the monster of TV ratings it is today by taking it out of the option stone ages and into the NFL style of play. Goes to show you that being a classy gentlemen, even when you win, does not count for much.
 
also.how is Jerome Brown not in yet? that **** gets me every time. especially when other DTs from that era have made it in.
 
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The same guy that just said FAU will win a national title soon with Kiffen? Sorry, I respect what he did at Miami, but he's not one of my favorite people.
 
Gatorhater said:
I had no idea he was not in. Nor did I realize how few of our greats from the NC days were in. There might just be a little anti-U going on here. Why did the change the rule about winning percentages?

If you ever want to see how great the hate is for The U, keep in mind that Howard coached with the god of Bama and is be big part of the Bama lore. The fact that starting the Cane dynasty is a bigger sin than even Bama sainthood can balance off says everything. Never mind that fact that he changed college football into the monster of TV ratings it is today by taking it out of the option stone ages and into the NFL style of play. Goes to show you that being a classy gentlemen, even when you win, does not count for much.
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Fair to say Howard was somewhat of an innovator on offense, but nearly at the level of Lavell Edwards. Honestly, that 1983 team won the national title because of that defense. Not even debatable. That being said what Howard did at Miami was remarkable and had his ego not gotten the better of him he would have won national titles on par with Nick Saban, possibly even more. He had a great year at Louisville and then the program started to regress. He goes to Oklahoma and lasts 1 year. Then he starts the program at FAU and has it headed in the right direction and then it starts falling apart. I'm glad the University recognizes him our pantheon of greats. He deserved that.
 
Pentagon Cane said:
Fair to say Howard was somewhat of an innovator on offense, but nearly at the level of Lavell Edwards. Honestly, that 1983 team won the national title because of that defense. Not even debatable. That being said what Howard did at Miami was remarkable and had his ego not gotten the better of him he would have won national titles on par with Nick Saban, possibly even more. He had a great year at Louisville and then the program started to regress. He goes to Oklahoma and lasts 1 year. Then he starts the program at FAU and has it headed in the right direction and then it starts falling apart. I'm glad the University recognizes him our pantheon of greats. He deserved that.
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I don't know that Howard would have won numerous titles had he stayed or not. A lot goes into that. Bringing the Pro set offense into college, while not an innovation, certainly changed college football dramatically when applied with our speed. JJ changed the defense from from the old Oklahoma 5-2 to his high velocity 4-3. That had a lot to do with our greatness and we don't know what Howard might have done.

I must add, however, it is a error to think ego was why Howard left. Truth be known, it was the administration's dealing with him over the oncampus stadium he wanted so badly. They told him he could have it BUT only if he raised all the money for it. He started to do so and was making nice progress, I was involved with the effort so not speaking bs. Then our great and wonderful administration, changed the rules on him. They said all the money HAD to from NEW donors -- defined as people who NEVER game to the university before. Heck, even my pledge didn't count at that point. That killed it.

Many say that his son's future medical bills were the reason but it is my fairly well informed opinion that the stadium funding bs was the reason for Howard taking that new job. Call that ego if you like.
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
Fair to say Howard was somewhat of an innovator on offense, but nearly at the level of Lavell Edwards. Honestly, that 1983 team won the national title because of that defense. Not even debatable. That being said what Howard did at Miami was remarkable and had his ego not gotten the better of him he would have won national titles on par with Nick Saban, possibly even more. He had a great year at Louisville and then the program started to regress. He goes to Oklahoma and lasts 1 year. Then he starts the program at FAU and has it headed in the right direction and then it starts falling apart. I'm glad the University recognizes him our pantheon of greats. He deserved that.
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He did well at Louisville after having 2 or 3 rebuilding years early on.

He did well at FAU for most of his tenure. They were in the FCS semifinals in their 2nd year. If I'm not mistaken FAU was the fastest program in NCAA history to make it to a bowl game. But frankly Howard stayed on at FAU too long and was too old to coach by the end. His last year at FAU was a 1-11 fiasco. He should have retired 2 or 3 years earlier than he did.

His year at OU was a disaster. Both on and off the field.
 
Gatorhater said:
I don't know that Howard would have won numerous titles had he stayed or not. A lot goes into that. Bringing the Pro set offense into college, while not an innovation, certainly changed college football dramatically when applied with our speed. JJ changed the defense from from the old Oklahoma 5-2 to his high velocity 4-3. That had a lot to do with our greatness and we don't know what Howard might have done.

I must add, however, it is a error to think ego was why Howard left. Truth be known, it was the administration's dealing with him over the oncampus stadium he wanted so badly. They told him he could have it BUT only if he raised all the money for it. He started to do so and was making nice progress, I was involved with the effort so not speaking bs. Then our great and wonderful administration, changed the rules on him. They said all the money HAD to from NEW donors -- defined as people who NEVER game to the university before. Heck, even my pledge didn't count at that point. That killed it.

Many say that his son's future medical bills were the reason but it is my fairly well informed opinion that the stadium funding bs was the reason for Howard taking that new job. Call that ego if you like.
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Yeah, but the on campus stadium, although not realistic because of Coral Gables, I do know it was at least considered about potentially buying some of the adjacent neighborhood. My understanding the bigger issue was Mallios retired and Sam and Howard didn't exactly gel. Howard wanted complete control over the football program and that wasn't going to happen. In the end, probably better he bolted and Jimmy came. Better relationship between Sam and Jimmy and that was needed to deal with Tad Foote.
 
Gatorhater said:
I don't know that Howard would have won numerous titles had he stayed or not. A lot goes into that. Bringing the Pro set offense into college, while not an innovation, certainly changed college football dramatically when applied with our speed. JJ changed the defense from from the old Oklahoma 5-2 to his high velocity 4-3. That had a lot to do with our greatness and we don't know what Howard might have done.

I must add, however, it is a error to think ego was why Howard left. Truth be known, it was the administration's dealing with him over the oncampus stadium he wanted so badly. They told him he could have it BUT only if he raised all the money for it. He started to do so and was making nice progress, I was involved with the effort so not speaking bs. Then our great and wonderful administration, changed the rules on him. They said all the money HAD to from NEW donors -- defined as people who NEVER game to the university before. Heck, even my pledge didn't count at that point. That killed it.

Many say that his son's future medical bills were the reason but it is my fairly well informed opinion that the stadium funding bs was the reason for Howard taking that new job. Call that ego if you like.
Click to expand...

I'll never forget when I was a kid sitting in Mark Light for the baseball teams first title celebration and Foote came to the mic and the fans started chanting "we want a stadium" and his response was something along the lines of "when the football team wins a championship we'll talk".
 
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Criteria for coaches:

"Coaches must have at least 10 years of head coaching experience, coached 100 games, and had at least a .600 winning percentage."

Jimmy Johnson BARELY qualifies (he was only a head coach at the college level for 10 years).

Miami doesn't even have 9 inductees. Yale has 25. Army and Princeton have 24 each. Navy has 20. Harvard, Minnesota, Penn (NOT Penn State), Pitt, and Stanford have 18 each. Cal has 16 and Northwestern has 15 and Georgia Tech has 14.

The National Football Foundation outlines specific criteria that may be used for evaluating a possible candidate for induction into the Hall of Fame.
  1. A player must have received major first team All-America recognition.
  2. A player becomes eligible for consideration 10 years after his last year of intercollegiate football played.
  3. Football achievements are considered first, but the post-football record as a citizen is also weighed.
  4. Players must have played their last year of intercollegiate football within the last 50 years.
  5. The nominee must have ended his professional athletic career prior to the time of the nomination.
  6. Coaches must have at least 10 years of head coaching experience, coached 100 games, and had at least a .600 winning percentage.
At one time, it was also a requirement that a player actually graduated from college.

Oh, and let's not forget this: "From 1995 to 2012, the Hall was located in South Bend, Indiana. It was connected to a convention center and situated in the city's renovated downtown district, 2 miles (3.2 km) south of the University of Notre Dame campus."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Football_Hall_of_Fame
 
QuatroCane said:
I'll never forget when I was a kid sitting in Mark Light for the baseball teams first title celebration and Foote came to the mic and the fans started chanting "we want a stadium" and his response was something along the lines of "when the football team wins a championship we'll talk".
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Could not stomach that ****. Never defended our players once. I was about to hand him another big donation when I snatched it back from his greedy little fingers, tore it up and pitched the pieces in his face. I did not expect to like our new president but he has been great. Finally have President who is proud of us.
 
Pentagon Cane said:
Yeah, but the on campus stadium, although not realistic because of Coral Gables, I do know it was at least considered about potentially buying some of the adjacent neighborhood. My understanding the bigger issue was Mallios retired and Sam and Howard didn't exactly gel. Howard wanted complete control over the football program and that wasn't going to happen. In the end, probably better he bolted and Jimmy came. Better relationship between Sam and Jimmy and that was needed to deal with Tad Foote.
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Howard was obtaining pledges for serious money from serious people when the backstabbing tooked place. The Who and the why doesn’t matter much to me. That was a time when the day of HC coaches being the AD also was about over but Howard was of the older days so he certainly could have wanted total control. I knew him and wrote big checks and therefore had access, but I was only concerned about the program so stayed out of the internals. Rasing money was and is serious business, so when a campaign for 50 to 60 million gets cranked up, it isn’t bs. We had about 10 in pledges when they said those didn’t count. Howard was not there much longer. Draw your own conclusions.

I also am not certain Howard would have won a bunch of additional titles. Heck, JJ only won one. But if you look at the picture on the QBs on the team at the start of Jim Kelly’s senior year, you have to believe we would have never been without a great one on the team. Four Super Bowls in a row/1st round pick; National Championship/1st pick in supplemental draft, heisman trophy/1st overall pick in the draft. —- anyone else ever have that level of talent collected on one team? Oh, the crappy QB in the pick ended up HC of two pretty big football programs. Yeah I thinks Howard should be in HOF.
 
Tad Footeball said:
The sad truth also still remains that if Howard hadn't left that he'd probably be regarded as a college legend on par with the all time greats and not what he is today- beloved by us but largely forgotten by the rest of the sports world. Case in point, that this article even had to be written and that there's not more of a national uproar about this slight from the HoF.
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And the equally sad reality is that he did leave so we can only project. His ceiling, particularly at that time, is almost limitless. In many ways Jimmy has the legacy Howard laid the foundation for.

And, to be clear, Jimmy is a hall of famer.
 
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