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The 2017 Team

AtlAtty said:
2017 Malik Rosier at QB
2023 TVD at QB

Does anything more really need to be written when comparing the 2 teams?
As OP noted, if Kayla had returned and played 2017 may have been special. Instead, it was very good and very limited by our passing game.
And we still had no depth but a great QB can help mask that issue for longer than a mediocre QB.
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Kayya did some good things here, but '23 TVD is on another level.
 
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AtlAtty said:
2017 Malik Rosier at QB
2023 TVD at QB

Does anything more really need to be written when comparing the 2 teams?
As OP noted, if Kayla had returned and played 2017 may have been special. Instead, it was very good and very limited by our passing game.
And we still had no depth but a great QB can help mask that issue for longer than a mediocre QB.
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Kaaya coming back along with a healthy Ahmon and Herndon down the stretch would've been huge. Team would've been much more dangerous.
 
let it go GIF
 
Mklein13 said:
That team played with fire all year and I'm talking in a negative way. Got lucky breaks.

FSU, Ga Tech, struggled against Central Michigan, UNC. Then got exposed against Pitt, Clemson, and Wisconsin.

I think this years team is so much better than 2017. The Va Tech and ND games will never be forgotten.
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2023 Miami is superior on paper to the 2017 Canes in every position:

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You have to understand that as good as 2017's D was, there was NO institutional support for what Richt wanted to do. Not like today. Not until we got embarrassed by Kirk on TV who accused Miami's Administration of not supporting Richt and then replacing him with the Mall Jewelry Store Salesman, a completely unserious move.

Only when the suits on the BOT were embarrassed by Herbstreit did things begin to happen.

The Hecht was never going to treat the Program the way Bama, OSU, and Texas were treated by their programs until the suits got the message.
 
section9 said:
That was a great team, but it got exposed by Wisconsin and ran out of players towards the end of the year. CMR was never given the resources or the talent to really turn the program around.

The amateurishness at the Hecht was revealed when Manny was hired within 24-48 hours after Richt turned in his papers and left his Buyout on the table as a gift to the University so they could hire someone good.

So of course, they hired Manny.

Richt's 2017 Team did break the FSU streak, though, and delivered Jimbo his last loss. Good for Malik and his Canes.
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The lack of good QB player exposed that team.
 
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tyroil smoochie-wallace said:
I was just randomly looking back on the highlights of the 2017 team and man that defense was lights out. The secondary especially, always made plays and was flying all over the field but the LB core was great too. If only Kaaya had came back one more year I could only imagine the offense. Deejay and Homer were Thunder and Lighting with Jeff and Ahmmon on the perimeter! Countless talented players and it stinks through scheme and other factors they came up short at the end of the year.
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If Kaaya had come back, Richt would have just spent another season trying to make him sell the idea he was a threat to run.
I like Kaaya a lot and think he gets way too much blame for the problems the team had, but Rosier was a better fit for what Richt wanted to do. I don’t think he (with Richt as HC) would have made that team better.
 
GojiraCane said:
2023 Miami is superior on paper to the 2017 Canes in every position:
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"On paper" in the narrow and specific way that you choose to look at it in your spreadsheets, sure... which is by average high school recruiting ranking by position. But who is to say that's the best way to judge talent? 2017 had better WR, DL, and DB's.
 
RightSaidFred said:
"On paper" in the narrow and specific way that you choose to look at it in your spreadsheets, sure... which is by average high school recruiting ranking by position. But who is to say that's the best way to judge talent? 2017 had better WR, DL, and DB's.
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I know, it’s only one metric. If you could rerate based on collegian performance (like 247 does with transfers) you would get some very different numbers in some cases. Kam Kichens and A Richards would likely be five stars.
 
ajkreider said:
Thomas was one of the most overrated players to come through here, and not because of talent.
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Didn’t have a qb worth a ****, didn’t have a OC worth a ****, and couldn’t get out of his own way. When he would get the opportunities he was electric. He should have went to an offense better suited for him like Ohio St or Oklahoma.
 
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GojiraCane said:
I know, it’s only one metric. If you could rerate based on collegian performance (like 247 does with transfers) you would get some very different numbers in some cases. Kam Kichens and A Richards would likely be five stars.
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I would also not use a straight average by position, would not treat every position group the same, and would not treat freshman the same as seniors.

Think about the first point. Say for simplicity that Francis Mauigoa is rated 99.999 and Joe Jag Jr. is rated 0.5. That's an average of 0.75. That means an offensive line with one Mauigoa and one Jag is rated the same is an offensive line with two 3-stars... but obviously that's not true. Mauigoa will play and the jag will not. Mauigoa will make plays and lift the position group, and the jags will just be jags.

Even worse, you know your numbers are misleading when you could just drop a jag from the team and "raise" the rating of the postion group, on paper. Obviously removing a player doesn't make your group more talented, you haven't added any talent or difference makers by doing that. You've just raised the average but if anything your team is worse because even scout team players perform a role.

That's why if you want a quick and dirty metric, much better than "blue chip ratio" is just to count the number of 5-stars... because the denominator in the blue chip ratio is completely irrelevant.

Anyway, football is a game of difference makers, not averages. Look at Colorado. One elite player can make a whole position group or even a whole team look good, because they're a difference maker.

And finally on the topic of talent, not all positions are created equal. QB for example matters a lot more than long snapper. Miami played like absolute garbage for about half the game against A&M.... except for TVD who played lights out from opening kickoff till the closing bell. TVD single-handedly lifted us until everyone else started to pick it up. One elite player, a difference maker, at a money position can do that. Look at Colorado's QB.

So the problem with just taking a straight average on high school recruiting rankings is that it doesn't account for difference makers or which positions are more important.
 
he soured everyone with his HC tenure but manny was the best DC(when he solely just the DC) we've had in 2 decades. if we had anything close to our offense now with that D we would been in the title game that year


hopefully/maybe guidry can top that
 
section9 said:
That was a great team, but it got exposed by Wisconsin and ran out of players towards the end of the year. CMR was never given the resources or the talent to really turn the program around.

The amateurishness at the Hecht was revealed when Manny was hired within 24-48 hours after Richt turned in his papers and left his Buyout on the table as a gift to the University so they could hire someone good.

So of course, they hired Manny.

Richt's 2017 Team did break the FSU streak, though, and delivered Jimbo his last loss. Good for Malik and his Canes.
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Not true. Richt had the backing of the administration to the point that for the first time, um could compete with the bigger schools for assistants. Richt was offered any amount he needed for an OC and QB coach, but he turned it down. He also was given the IPF. His contract negotiation apparently was more about program resources than personal gain.

BJ was a clown, but richt got what he wanted.
 
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