Talent

D$:

How much of the "coal shovel" guys and lack of South Florida savages has to do with Miami's unwillingness to adhere to the sliding scale? How much of it has to do with Shalala's desire to have the top APR in the country, which is hard to do with an entire team of South Florida public school kids?

I don't think it has anything to do with it. Shannon had a ton of Dade kids and we had a better APR than we do now. Gray basically did four years of work in one summer and got in. Admissions does some weird stuff sometimes but it's a talent evaluation issue.

The Shalala criticism is overstated in my opinion. She personally called in favors to get Joe Yearby in. He may have ended up in USF if she didn't intervene.

My Shalala criticism is that we've now hired three consecutive coaches, 14 years, of guys who don't lead in the aggressive, cutting edge way that made this program great. If you're worried about the school's brand, and you happen to be trying to build a Health District associated with the cutting edge, wouldn't you try to build the football program - essentially your organization's biggest marketing/branding tool - in a way that coincides? It's almost too easy. The school benefits and the football program benefits.



Her personal legacy is not tied to one of those two things mentioned in your last sentence.....

Her personal legacy is tied to the health district...

Coincidence that one suffers as it is neglected...?

Real talk: they're both operating at less than optimal levels. The University of Miami has had significant hiccups in their management. Their successes have revolved around [Sergio Gonzalez's] incredible fundraising ability. The Health District has not worked out as planned, though. Their seeming plan to rape the County hospital and swim in money has been met with significant resistance. Their idea to overpay for a hospital (Cedars) and somehow make it a destination despite being in the middle of an existing ghetto is not on its anticipated pace. It may happen in the future. It may not. Big questions for something most thought was a slam dunk.

My point above is they can actually *use* the football program to benefit the overall brand, trickling to its Health plans. Instead, they turn their noses up at football, while having a Health System fraught with controversies. Ironic.
 
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I don't think it has anything to do with it. Shannon had a ton of Dade kids and we had a better APR than we do now. Gray basically did four years of work in one summer and got in. Admissions does some weird stuff sometimes but it's a talent evaluation issue.

The Shalala criticism is overstated in my opinion. She personally called in favors to get Joe Yearby in. He may have ended up in USF if she didn't intervene.

My Shalala criticism is that we've now hired three consecutive coaches, 14 years, of guys who don't lead in the aggressive, cutting edge way that made this program great. If you're worried about the school's brand, and you happen to be trying to build a Health District associated with the cutting edge, wouldn't you try to build the football program - essentially your organization's biggest marketing/branding tool - in a way that coincides? It's almost too easy. The school benefits and the football program benefits.

I don't blame her for Coker and Golden. She didn't want Coker, and Golden seemed like a good hire at the time. Shannon was not a good hire but our program was a mess and a lot of people turned us down. And while the buck stops with her, she's not a football person. Golden was really DiMare's choice.

That's my point. If she's not a football person, surround yourself with people who are. Dimare's influence should not be an excuse or a crutch. Ultimately, she is accountable.

Say Gary Patterson just simply says "I don't like the city of Miami and I don't like Palm Trees"

What does your wish list look like after that?

I don't have a wish list because I don't think Golden will be fired after this season. We'll see what progresses over the next year. It doesn't have to be a big name. I'll be looking for the next Patterson or Sumlin. They weren't the names they are now when they were possibilities for us. Both have had their ups and downs, but those were my choices in previous scenarios because they fit what I think coincides with this program's greatness: aggressively on the cutting edge of some aspect of football.
 
golden was the perfect hire this school needed.. he was thought to be an elite up and comer much like muschamp. I can't fault the hiring at that point

No. He wasn't. He was a fresh face. A good speaker. But was not an elite up and comer. You might have inferred that because of so many unknowns, but he was not known to be such.
 
golden was the perfect hire this school needed.. he was thought to be an elite up and comer much like muschamp. I can't fault the hiring at that point

No. He wasn't. He was a fresh face. A good speaker. But was not an elite up and comer. You might have inferred that because of so many unknowns, but he was not known to be such.
elite may be a stretch youre right. but a lot of people were singing his praises for what he did @ Temple.
 
D$:

How much of the "coal shovel" guys and lack of South Florida savages has to do with Miami's unwillingness to adhere to the sliding scale? How much of it has to do with Shalala's desire to have the top APR in the country, which is hard to do with an entire team of South Florida public school kids?

I don't think it has anything to do with it. Shannon had a ton of Dade kids and we had a better APR than we do now. Gray basically did four years of work in one summer and got in. Admissions does some weird stuff sometimes but it's a talent evaluation issue.

The Shalala criticism is overstated in my opinion. She personally called in favors to get Joe Yearby in. He may have ended up in USF if she didn't intervene.

My Shalala criticism is that we've now hired three consecutive coaches, 14 years, of guys who don't lead in the aggressive, cutting edge way that made this program great. If you're worried about the school's brand, and you happen to be trying to build a Health District associated with the cutting edge, wouldn't you try to build the football program - essentially your organization's biggest marketing/branding tool - in a way that coincides? It's almost too easy. The school benefits and the football program benefits.



Her personal legacy is not tied to one of those two things mentioned in your last sentence.....

Her personal legacy is tied to the health district...

Coincidence that one suffers as it is neglected...?

Real talk: they're both operating at less than optimal levels. The University of Miami has had significant hiccups in their management. Their successes have revolved around [Sergio Gonzalez's] incredible fundraising ability. The Health District has not worked out as planned, though. Their seeming plan to rape the County hospital and swim in money has been met with significant resistance. Their idea to overpay for a hospital (Cedars) and somehow make it a destination despite being in the middle of an existing ghetto is not on its anticipated pace. It may happen in the future. It may not. Big questions for something most thought was a slam dunk.

My point above is they can actually *use* the football program to benefit the overall brand, trickling to its Health plans. Instead, they turn their noses up at football, while having a Health System fraught with controversies. Ironic.

Well said, I'll add the football program is not as high a priority as many wish or think. The admin takes notice when alumni and BOT get ****ed. They aren't proactive in this for the most part.
 
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In early 2012, I had a conversation with a former Miami staffer who landed at Alabama. I congratulated him on Alabama's championship and told him that it must be nice to coach so many studs. He looked at me and said, "Miami's good players are better than Alabama's good players."

I couldn't believe it. Alabama was the national champion. Miami was 6-6 and coming off an embarrassing home loss to BC. Alabama had multiple projected first round picks. Miami had a few mid and late-round guys. But he was insistent.

"Lamar Miller is better than Trent Richardson. Olivier Vernon is better than Courtney Upshaw. And Seantrel Henderson is better than any lineman we've got. Watch them in the pros."

Now that we've seen those guys in the NFL, we know he was dead-on. Why were the programs so far apart on the field? The coach said it came down to football infrastructure (training table, strength and conditioning, medical staff) and depth. He left out coaching, for obvious reasons, but you can assume that's another factor. Once those guys get to the NFL, he said, all the external things will become equal and raw talent will prevail.

Golden has done a better job than Shannon in terms of player development; specifically, strength and conditioning. Perryman, Dorsett, Walford and Duke all got bigger and stronger without losing their speed. But why is a team with so many elite players struggling in a talentless Coastal division?

Coaching is an obvious factor that is being addressed in every other thread on this board. The other factor is depth. In my view, there are three reasons depth is not where it needs to be:

1- We cannot identify undervalued South Florida talent. We are the anti-Louisville in this regard. These South Florida three-stars should be the main source of depth for this team, along with blue-chip young players.

2- The camp has produced nothing. I've discussed this before, but it bears repeating: the camp is the biggest indictment of the Temple crew's talent evaluation skills. If Paul "Delaware" Williams offers a kid at the camp, I just assume it's a wasted scholarship.

3- The Temple coaches have a Northeastern, Parcells approach that does not work here. This relates to numbers 1 and 2. Golden says that you support the star players with "coal shovelers." His idea of a coal shoveler is a low-rated, low-maintenance guy who has ideal measurables to develop. That's crap. The meat of this program should be South Florida ballers who may lack a measurable or two. The guys that go to Louisville and talk **** to our five-stars. Football players, not projects with good attitudes. If we had been stacking these guys for four years, this team would look much, much different.

Right now, our best players are better than anybody's best players. Anybody. Watch Perryman, Dorsett, Flowers, Duke and Walford in the pros. No other Power Five school can match those upperclassmen. Four years later, Miami is still undefeated on Sunday and .500 on Saturday.

I agree with your premise, but I also believe golden would have neutered those guys. Football is an attitude, and having a conservative attitude has been killing us for 4 years as well. Go back and look at the first half of the Nole game, that was attacking in all 3 phases, yet that isn't this staffs comfort zone. Look at the last 6 quarters of ball, that is what they rely on.
 
golden was the perfect hire this school needed.. he was thought to be an elite up and comer much like muschamp. I can't fault the hiring at that point

No. He wasn't. He was a fresh face. A good speaker. But was not an elite up and comer. You might have inferred that because of so many unknowns, but he was not known to be such.
elite may be a stretch youre right. but a lot of people were singing his praises for what he did @ Temple.

And anyone who was doing so was a complete dumbass.

He went 0-14 against MAC teams with winning records at Temple. In reality, nothing he did there was special.
 
I don't think it has anything to do with it. Shannon had a ton of Dade kids and we had a better APR than we do now. Gray basically did four years of work in one summer and got in. Admissions does some weird stuff sometimes but it's a talent evaluation issue.

The Shalala criticism is overstated in my opinion. She personally called in favors to get Joe Yearby in. He may have ended up in USF if she didn't intervene.

My Shalala criticism is that we've now hired three consecutive coaches, 14 years, of guys who don't lead in the aggressive, cutting edge way that made this program great. If you're worried about the school's brand, and you happen to be trying to build a Health District associated with the cutting edge, wouldn't you try to build the football program - essentially your organization's biggest marketing/branding tool - in a way that coincides? It's almost too easy. The school benefits and the football program benefits.



Her personal legacy is not tied to one of those two things mentioned in your last sentence.....

Her personal legacy is tied to the health district...

Coincidence that one suffers as it is neglected...?

Real talk: they're both operating at less than optimal levels. The University of Miami has had significant hiccups in their management. Their successes have revolved around [Sergio Gonzalez's] incredible fundraising ability. The Health District has not worked out as planned, though. Their seeming plan to rape the County hospital and swim in money has been met with significant resistance. Their idea to overpay for a hospital (Cedars) and somehow make it a destination despite being in the middle of an existing ghetto is not on its anticipated pace. It may happen in the future. It may not. Big questions for something most thought was a slam dunk.

My point above is they can actually *use* the football program to benefit the overall brand, trickling to its Health plans. Instead, they turn their noses up at football, while having a Health System fraught with controversies. Ironic.

Well said, I'll add the football program is not as high a priority as many wish or think. The admin takes notice when alumni and BOT get ****ed. They are it proactive in this for the most part.

From what I know about it, it's not a priority at all, basically. The way they treat some of their biggest boosters is weird. If the football program were a company, I'd sell everything I have to try to buy an undervalued asset, build it up and flip it. It seems UM leaders can't get out of their own way to realize the value they have sitting right under their own fingertips. For shame.
 
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D$:

How much of the "coal shovel" guys and lack of South Florida savages has to do with Miami's unwillingness to adhere to the sliding scale? How much of it has to do with Shalala's desire to have the top APR in the country, which is hard to do with an entire team of South Florida public school kids?

I don't think it has anything to do with it. Shannon had a ton of Dade kids and we had a better APR than we do now. Gray basically did four years of work in one summer and got in. Admissions does some weird stuff sometimes but it's a talent evaluation issue.

The Shalala criticism is overstated in my opinion. She personally called in favors to get Joe Yearby in. He may have ended up in USF if she didn't intervene.

My Shalala criticism is that we've now hired three consecutive coaches, 14 years, of guys who don't lead in the aggressive, cutting edge way that made this program great. If you're worried about the school's brand, and you happen to be trying to build a Health District associated with the cutting edge, wouldn't you try to build the football program - essentially your organization's biggest marketing/branding tool - in a way that coincides? It's almost too easy. The school benefits and the football program benefits.



Her personal legacy is not tied to one of those two things mentioned in your last sentence.....

Her personal legacy is tied to the health district...

Coincidence that one suffers as it is neglected...?

Real talk: they're both operating at less than optimal levels. The University of Miami has had significant hiccups in their management. Their successes have revolved around [Sergio Gonzalez's] incredible fundraising ability. The Health District has not worked out as planned, though. Their seeming plan to rape the County hospital and swim in money has been met with significant resistance. Their idea to overpay for a hospital (Cedars) and somehow make it a destination despite being in the middle of an existing ghetto is not on its anticipated pace. It may happen in the future. It may not. Big questions for something most thought was a slam dunk.

My point above is they can actually *use* the football program to benefit the overall brand, trickling to its Health plans. Instead, they turn their noses up at football, while having a Health System fraught with controversies. Ironic.

The problem with our administration is that the current president is a consummate politician. By nature, politicians are not proactive and are not leaders. They are reactive and seek to stay in the good graces of their constituency.
Politicians are not good CEO's and are poor managers. So, I'm not surprised to hear that the Health District has management issues.
Good CEO's do not micromanage. Rather, they find people that are skilled, qualified, and motivated, and let them run their respective units/departments. IMO the best hope for becoming successful in football again is for us to have a president that hires a qualified AD and lets them run the athletic dept. with little or no interference. Unfortunately, this is why I believe that we will not see a coaching change until after we get a new president.
 
D$:

How much of the "coal shovel" guys and lack of South Florida savages has to do with Miami's unwillingness to adhere to the sliding scale? How much of it has to do with Shalala's desire to have the top APR in the country, which is hard to do with an entire team of South Florida public school kids?

I don't think it has anything to do with it. Shannon had a ton of Dade kids and we had a better APR than we do now. Gray basically did four years of work in one summer and got in. Admissions does some weird stuff sometimes but it's a talent evaluation issue.

The Shalala criticism is overstated in my opinion. She personally called in favors to get Joe Yearby in. He may have ended up in USF if she didn't intervene.

My Shalala criticism is that we've now hired three consecutive coaches, 14 years, of guys who don't lead in the aggressive, cutting edge way that made this program great. If you're worried about the school's brand, and you happen to be trying to build a Health District associated with the cutting edge, wouldn't you try to build the football program - essentially your organization's biggest marketing/branding tool - in a way that coincides? It's almost too easy. The school benefits and the football program benefits.



Her personal legacy is not tied to one of those two things mentioned in your last sentence.....

Her personal legacy is tied to the health district...

Coincidence that one suffers as it is neglected...?

Real talk: they're both operating at less than optimal levels. The University of Miami has had significant hiccups in their management. Their successes have revolved around [Sergio Gonzalez's] incredible fundraising ability. The Health District has not worked out as planned, though. Their seeming plan to rape the County hospital and swim in money has been met with significant resistance. Their idea to overpay for a hospital (Cedars) and somehow make it a destination despite being in the middle of an existing ghetto is not on its anticipated pace. It may happen in the future. It may not. Big questions for something most thought was a slam dunk.

My point above is they can actually *use* the football program to benefit the overall brand, trickling to its Health plans. Instead, they turn their noses up at football, while having a Health System fraught with controversies. Ironic.

Not to quibble, but isn't "ghetto" a little harsh.
 
I don't think it has anything to do with it. Shannon had a ton of Dade kids and we had a better APR than we do now. Gray basically did four years of work in one summer and got in. Admissions does some weird stuff sometimes but it's a talent evaluation issue.

The Shalala criticism is overstated in my opinion. She personally called in favors to get Joe Yearby in. He may have ended up in USF if she didn't intervene.

My Shalala criticism is that we've now hired three consecutive coaches, 14 years, of guys who don't lead in the aggressive, cutting edge way that made this program great. If you're worried about the school's brand, and you happen to be trying to build a Health District associated with the cutting edge, wouldn't you try to build the football program - essentially your organization's biggest marketing/branding tool - in a way that coincides? It's almost too easy. The school benefits and the football program benefits.



Her personal legacy is not tied to one of those two things mentioned in your last sentence.....

Her personal legacy is tied to the health district...

Coincidence that one suffers as it is neglected...?

Real talk: they're both operating at less than optimal levels. The University of Miami has had significant hiccups in their management. Their successes have revolved around [Sergio Gonzalez's] incredible fundraising ability. The Health District has not worked out as planned, though. Their seeming plan to rape the County hospital and swim in money has been met with significant resistance. Their idea to overpay for a hospital (Cedars) and somehow make it a destination despite being in the middle of an existing ghetto is not on its anticipated pace. It may happen in the future. It may not. Big questions for something most thought was a slam dunk.

My point above is they can actually *use* the football program to benefit the overall brand, trickling to its Health plans. Instead, they turn their noses up at football, while having a Health System fraught with controversies. Ironic.

Not to quibble, but isn't "ghetto" a little harsh.

Maybe. It is certainly an impoverished area. Jackson Main isn't flooded unfunded patients from the surrounding areas by coincidence. It fits within the most liberal definition of the word, but I understand your point. My point, perhaps having used the word for emphasis, was that it's contrary to their target market.
 
The football program was high priority enough to fire the previous coach for the exact performance.
 
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My Shalala criticism is that we've now hired three consecutive coaches, 14 years, of guys who don't lead in the aggressive, cutting edge way that made this program great. If you're worried about the school's brand, and you happen to be trying to build a Health District associated with the cutting edge, wouldn't you try to build the football program - essentially your organization's biggest marketing/branding tool - in a way that coincides? It's almost too easy. The school benefits and the football program benefits.



Her personal legacy is not tied to one of those two things mentioned in your last sentence.....

Her personal legacy is tied to the health district...

Coincidence that one suffers as it is neglected...?

Real talk: they're both operating at less than optimal levels. The University of Miami has had significant hiccups in their management. Their successes have revolved around [Sergio Gonzalez's] incredible fundraising ability. The Health District has not worked out as planned, though. Their seeming plan to rape the County hospital and swim in money has been met with significant resistance. Their idea to overpay for a hospital (Cedars) and somehow make it a destination despite being in the middle of an existing ghetto is not on its anticipated pace. It may happen in the future. It may not. Big questions for something most thought was a slam dunk.

My point above is they can actually *use* the football program to benefit the overall brand, trickling to its Health plans. Instead, they turn their noses up at football, while having a Health System fraught with controversies. Ironic.

Not to quibble, but isn't "ghetto" a little harsh.

Maybe. It is certainly an impoverished area. Jackson Main isn't flooded unfunded patients from the surrounding areas by coincidence. It fits within the most liberal definition of the word, but I understand your point. My point, perhaps having used the word for emphasis, was that it's contrary to their target market.
I guess a get a little sensitive ever since someone on a non-football board once called my old neighbor a ghetto. Other than most people there being a certain color, that was far from the truth.

But carry on with your truth-saying and ignore my girlie moment.
 
If and when Golden is done, what are the negatives for Cristobal? He is a Cane, knows SFl. His HC tenure featured a bowl win and he has learned from Satan what a program should look like.
 
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