Take a deep breathe

OriginalGatorHater

Sophomore
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He doesn't as he recruited them, but if you didn't expect a drop off on the DL and secondary, I don't know what to tell you. That was obvious to all but the sunshine pumped coming into the season.

It's also easy to say he recruited these guys. It would also be a lazy and incomplete statement that doesn't tell complete story. He was here, but he was on a rudderless ship with Richt at the helm. We've sucked for years. We were and still are a tough sell to this day. It's up to him to find his guys, but guess what, he knows the ones he took weaknesses and may even be a long shot in some cases to contribute. Guess what, he still had to take them as it was the best he could get. Sometimes that isn't good enough, no matter how much you coach them up.
Of course I expected a drop off. Why did I expect a drop off? Because the guy sucks at recruiting and did not stack up enough talent to be able to compete at the same level as No Ds players.

Bullschit about Richt holding him back. Richt was recruiting fine on the offensive side of the ball.
 

OriginalGatorHater

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Jan 14, 2018
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11,161
Y’all seem to think replacing 3 starters in the secondary is an easy task. Both touchdowns that really cost us the games have had a new starter in coverage/missed tackle against UF.
Had he recruited better over the past few years we would have more upper classmen to plug into at DB. This is all on him and his schit recruiting.
 

Cane6

Freshman
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Messages
1,428
There's so much bickering on this site, I've reserved comment until things settled a bit after the UNC game. Yeah it still feels like a punch in the gut to be 0-2 but we've been in those games all the way to the end. Losing sucks but, I'd rather lose that way then be embarrassed like we were to start last season getting trounced on national TV by LSU.

Our 0-2 start got me thinking about how some of the best coaches got their start in season one at a new school. Saban went 7-6 his first season at Alabaga. Myer went 9-3 first season with the Gaytors. Dabo was only 19-15 through 2 and a half season. Even our beloved JJ lost five games year one coming off a national title.

Manny could very well turn out to be a giant bust as a head coach and the odds of him turning into a Dabo or any of those I mentioned are slim at best. But let's wait until season's end to judge what his path as a hc is looking like. Plenty of teams have started a season slow only to gain momentum as the season goes on and set themselves up for future success.There's still a long ways to go.
I agree that Manny needs time.

I’m very curious to see how Manny addresses lingering problems. Based on what happened with Al Golden and Mark Richt, I’d bet he’s smart enough to be proactive in fixing things.

Case in point, switching Scaife to RT for week 2.

However, the ST problems continue, and I would have:
A. Never hired Patke to begin with, he should be a GA at Miami
B. Never made Patke the ST coach

We will see how this plays out though. Always finding ways to improve the team is paramount, including the coaching staff. Let’s give Manny a full year at the helm to see how he handles these situations
 

JgDaCane

All-ACC
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
8,659
lol sh*t with that riveting argument, who could argue with you?
Nothing to argue or explain. He’s just another **** coach we rushed to hire. Saw everything I needed to see in 2 games. Undisciplined & unprepared. That doesn’t go away. Not in year 1 not in year 6.
 

Firesite

Junior
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
2,491
Bruh dude won't be here in 2 years. Just going to enjoy my Saturdays and be numb to the loses.
 

canes614

Sophomore
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,277
He needs to coach a 10 win season or else..that should always be the standard at Miami ..we go from comparing Miami to blue Chip rosters preseason ....to hoping we win games in a sorry 3* division...lol
 

ItsAUThing.com

Following 'The U' since '82—covering it since '96.
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Messages
457
He already has all "his guys" in on defense. He has no excuses for the regression on defense.
Has nothing to do with "his guys" on defense. Has everything to do with the program still being rebuild-mode, when fans have "reload" demands.

News flash; losing the experience of Jaquan Johnson, Sheldrick Redwine and Michael Jackson took its toll on the secondary with guys like Blades, Ivey and Hall cutting their teeth with two road games. Even Bandy, who looked like a baller the past two years—he hasn't been the same early this season without that senior leadership he leaned on the past two years. He'll eventually be "the guy"—but right now no one is in that role.

In 2002 Miami could afford to lose Ed Reed, Mike Rumph, Phillip Buchanon and James Lewis after a national title run—plugging in Sean Taylor and Antrel Rolle to a secondary that still had a loaded front seven in front of them picking up the slack; Jon Vilma, DJ Williams, Vince Wilfork, Jerome McDougle, etc.

Miami's secondary took a massive hit and doesn't have the two-deep to reload. Some of the same issues on the defensive line. Hell, Gerald Willis was out for the Pinstripe against a sub-par Wisconsin team and that line saw a huge dropoff with Nesta Silvera in there for him in that route.

Willis gone. Joe Jackson to the NFL a year early. Lost depth with Tito Odenigbo and Demetrius Jackson graduating, too.

Again, the fact that Miami even needed to bring in transfers like Odenigbo and M. Jackson tells you this team isn't where it needs to be depth-wise. (Brought in Trevon Hill this year, who is still getting up to speed from shoulder surgery last winter.)

You're simplifying things by saying Diaz "his guys" on defense as Miami is going to feel the effects of outgoing experiences seniors (or yahoos who give up their last year of eligibility to go on the fifth round) until depth gets where it needs to be.
 

ItsAUThing.com

Following 'The U' since '82—covering it since '96.
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Messages
457
He needs to coach a 10 win season or else..that should always be the standard at Miami ..we go from comparing Miami to blue Chip rosters preseason ....to hoping we win games in a sorry 3* division...lol
Again, that WAS the standard at Miami decades ago when this thing got built up and then again when Butch rebuilt it, but that hasn't been the way for literally almost two decades now.

Five head coaches in 14 seasons and a university president from 2001 to 2015 that couldn't have given less of a sh1t about athletics—a slew of low-rent hires.

Talking about what "the standard" was at Miami with 10-win seasons—dude, the Canes have had ONE since 2003. When you don't do something more than once in 16 tries, in ain't standard anymore.

Pitt was a force in the late 1970s and early 1980s—yet if their fans were taking about their "standard" from some Tony Dorsett era, you'd laugh them out of the room—as the standard has changed.

Miami fans need to accept that there was a standard, but the program eroded for a slew of reasons and is now trying to create a new standard—based on hard work, rebuilding right and bringing back new players with an old school mentality .... meanwhile this fan base just wants to b1tch about the way things used to be.
 

canes614

Sophomore
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,277
Again, that WAS the standard at Miami decades ago when this thing got built up and then again when Butch rebuilt it, but that hasn't been the way for literally almost two decades now.

Five head coaches in 14 seasons and a university president from 2001 to 2015 that couldn't have given less of a sh1t about athletics—a slew of low-rent hires.

Talking about what "the standard" was at Miami with 10-win seasons—dude, the Canes have had ONE since 2003. When you don't do something more than once in 16 tries, in ain't standard anymore.

Pitt was a force in the late 1970s and early 1980s—yet if their fans were taking about their "standard" from some Tony Dorsett era, you'd laugh them out of the room—as the standard has changed.

Miami fans need to accept that there was a standard, but the program eroded for a slew of reasons and is now trying to create a new standard—based on hard work, rebuilding right and bringing back new players with an old school mentality .... meanwhile this fan base just wants to b1tch about the way things used to be.
I know you didn't just compare Pitt to Miami? We always have way more talent on paper than Pitt...
 

bobbydigius

Senior
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
4,821
I can’t wait til we dominate UBC this Saturday and the sunshine pumpers are out in full force again
 

Kn[]_[]ckles3o5

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
907
And whose fault is that? Had he recruited at a higher level we would have more upper classmen playing in the secondary.

He wasn't just left with this secondary. He built it, he should have been aware of these glaring deficiencies and recruited for it years ago.

What were your expectations as far as recruiting goes? We lost elite 5 stars to the bag schools that have been in the top 5 the last few seasons. You don't just go from mediocre to elite overnight and Miami had a chance in 2018 to push into the top ten and instead shat the bed and went 7-6 because the offense/ST tanked. Back to square one again. So what were they able to do during our slow climb into relevancy and after our crash back to the middle of the pack.

2015 - Doritos last defensive class had both Jaquan and Sheldrick in it. Also Knowles.

2016 - Nothin. Ced Wright and Jeff James in a transition class coming off the Gorlden era. Surely you can't blame the coaches for this haul. Ced Wright could have been a player if he stayed right.

2017 - 1st true class after a decent season in what was a down year for safeties in South Florida. We snag Amari Carter and Derrick Smith. We all liked Carter's game. He's been ok here but probably isn't quite the caliber of player you need in the secondary. Smith was also a player with good physical talent but got beat out, then quit on us. Misses were Cyrus Fagan, Daniel Wright, and Shawn Davis.

Sidenote: We brought in Bubba Bolden (and Jaelan Phillips) from this class. Bolden is rated higher than any S in FL that year

2018 - Gurvan Hall. Everyone agrees he was supposed to be a bad man. We will see if he becomes the player we all expected. Maybe at this point Manny as a coach should have been projecting forward and seeing that 2016 and 2017 were busts. But in all honesty you gotta give a kid more than a year to up his game so at this point we know 2016 was a bust but 2017 and 2018 still look good. We missed on Jobe as a S prospect

2019 - Keontra Smith and Bubba Bolden off the transfer portal. Everyone was on board with Smith and Bolden was an elite talent out of high school. If he had been cleared by the NCAA maybe he takes a starting spot and we are 2-0, who knows? Stevenson was listed a sa CB but I think we all projected him at safety, hurt us but we know the story with these big time SF recruits. Only other guys on the board higher than Smith was Brendan Gant and Jordan Battle.

I don't think looking at that timeline and understanding that we got out bagged by schools with much better on field performance than us that the staff completely blew it recruiting the position.

So to sum it up. Manny stepped in to a program with decent starting safeties and good young talent. He got fucked in his first recruiting class. His second year was just not very good in his territory and he grabbed two of the better realistic targets available then retroactively brought in an elite prospect from that class in Bolden prior to this season where you hammer him for not being aware of certain deficiencies. The next year he got an elite prospect for the 2018 class in G. Hall and in 2019 he got another upper level prospect in K. Smith. He did miss on the whales but his recruiting of the position is far and away better than the 2016 class that dropped in his lap.

If Bolden plays or Manny has the ability to recruit in the 2016 class maybe we are 2-0. I'm going to save my criticisms of our recruiting depth for next season when Manny has been involved in the recruitment of all of the players on the roster and isn't dealing with deficiencies created in the fallout of Gorlden and Doritos mess.

Manny's gotta win and he needs to start doing it soon if he wants to have momentum going into the end of this recruiting cycle. Looking back on what has transpired I don't believe it was some huge recruiting ineptitude that led to us being in this position just some bad luck and hard reality.
 
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OriginalGatorHater

Sophomore
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Messages
11,161
What were your expectations as far as recruiting goes? We lost elite 5 stars to the bag schools that have been in the top 5 the last few seasons. You don't just go from mediocre to elite overnight and Miami had a chance in 2018 to push into the top ten and instead shat the bed and went 7-6 because the offense/ST tanked. Back to square one again. So what were they able to do during our slow climb into relevancy and after our crash back to the middle of the pack.

2015 - Doritos last defensive class had both Jaquan and Sheldrick in it. Also Knowles.

2016 - Nothin. Ced Wright and Jeff James in a transition class coming off the Gorlden era. Surely you can't blame the coaches for this haul. Ced Wright could have been a player if he stayed right.

2017 - 1st true class after a decent season in what was a down year for safeties in South Florida. We snag Amari Carter and Derrick Smith. We all liked Carter's game. He's been ok here but probably isn't quite the caliber of player you need in the secondary. Smith was also a player with good physical talent but got beat out, then quit on us. Misses were Cyrus Fagan, Daniel Wright, and Shawn Davis.

Sidenote: We brought in Bubba Bolden (and Jaelan Phillips) from this class. Bolden is rated higher than any S in FL that year

2018 - Gurvan Hall. Everyone agrees he was supposed to be a bad man. We will see if he becomes the player we all expected. Maybe at this point Manny as a coach should have been projecting forward and seeing that 2016 and 2017 were busts. But in all honesty you gotta give a kid more than a year to up his game so at this point we know 2016 was a bust but 2017 and 2018 still look good. We missed on Jobe as a S prospect

2019 - Keontra Smith and Bubba Bolden off the transfer portal. Everyone was on board with Smith and Bolden was an elite talent out of high school. If he had been cleared by the NCAA maybe he takes a starting spot and we are 2-0, who knows? Stevenson was listed a sa CB but I think we all projected him at safety, hurt us but we know the story with these big time SF recruits. Only other guys on the board higher than Smith was Brendan Gant and Jordan Battle.

I don't think looking at that timeline and understanding that we got out bagged by schools with much better on field performance than us that the staff completely blew it recruiting the position.

So to sum it up. Manny stepped in to a program with decent starting safeties and good young talent. He got fucked in his first recruiting class. His second year was just not very good in his territory and he grabbed two of the better realistic targets available then retroactively brought in an elite prospect from that class in Bolden prior to this season where you hammer him for not being aware of certain deficiencies. The next year he got an elite prospect for the 2018 class in G. Hall and in 2019 he got another upper level prospect in K. Smith. He did miss on the whales but his recruiting of the position is far and away better than the 2016 class that dropped in his lap.

If Bolden plays or Manny has the ability to recruit in the 2016 class maybe we are 2-0. I'm going to save my criticisms of our recruiting depth for next season when Manny has been involved in the recruitment of all of the players on the roster and isn't dealing with deficiencies created in the fallout of Gorlden and Doritos mess.

Manny's gotta win and he needs to start doing it soon if he wants to have momentum going into the end of this recruiting cycle. Looking back on what has transpired I don't believe it was some huge recruiting ineptitude that led to us being in this position just some bad luck and hard reality.
So to sum it up. I would think he would recruit well enough that Knowles isn't the first off the bench. You can make all the excuses you want, but the offense some how figured out a way to increase the talent level we have had since Golden has left.
 

OriginalGatorHater

Sophomore
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Messages
11,161
Has nothing to do with "his guys" on defense. Has everything to do with the program still being rebuild-mode, when fans have "reload" demands.

News flash; losing the experience of Jaquan Johnson, Sheldrick Redwine and Michael Jackson took its toll on the secondary with guys like Blades, Ivey and Hall cutting their teeth with two road games. Even Bandy, who looked like a baller the past two years—he hasn't been the same early this season without that senior leadership he leaned on the past two years. He'll eventually be "the guy"—but right now no one is in that role.

In 2002 Miami could afford to lose Ed Reed, Mike Rumph, Phillip Buchanon and James Lewis after a national title run—plugging in Sean Taylor and Antrel Rolle to a secondary that still had a loaded front seven in front of them picking up the slack; Jon Vilma, DJ Williams, Vince Wilfork, Jerome McDougle, etc.

Miami's secondary took a massive hit and doesn't have the two-deep to reload. Some of the same issues on the defensive line. Hell, Gerald Willis was out for the Pinstripe against a sub-par Wisconsin team and that line saw a huge dropoff with Nesta Silvera in there for him in that route.

Willis gone. Joe Jackson to the NFL a year early. Lost depth with Tito Odenigbo and Demetrius Jackson graduating, too.

Again, the fact that Miami even needed to bring in transfers like Odenigbo and M. Jackson tells you this team isn't where it needs to be depth-wise. (Brought in Trevon Hill this year, who is still getting up to speed from shoulder surgery last winter.)

You're simplifying things by saying Diaz "his guys" on defense as Miami is going to feel the effects of outgoing experiences seniors (or yahoos who give up their last year of eligibility to go on the fifth round) until depth gets where it needs to be.
Newsflash, Manny was the one that wasn't able to recruit enough guys to fill in for the seniors. We have outgoing seniors ever year. It is the coaches job to be able to for see that and recruit accordingly.

I guess it was foolish of me to think Manny would somehow be able to recruit better players than No D was able to.
 

OriginalGatorHater

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
11,161
Frank Beamer was 24-40-2 in his first six seasons at Va Tech. Including 2-8-1 in year 6. By that standard, we gave Shannon 3 less years than we should have, and Golden 2.5 less years than we should have.

You have to wait until year 7 to evaluate a coach.
Imagine if Minnesota fired Murray Warmath after only winning 1 game in season 5 and 2 in season 6. They never would have won their NC in year 7!!
 

Kn[]_[]ckles3o5

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
907
So to sum it up. I would think he would recruit well enough that Knowles isn't the first off the bench. You can make all the excuses you want, but the offense some how figured out a way to increase the talent level we have had since Golden has left.
Excluding obvious bagged guys we pushed hard to get and missed, what regional players on that list would you want instead of who we signed. That's my question. When I look at who we could have signed I don't see any players who are head and shoulders better than what we actually signed. Shawn Davis, Brendan Gant, Battle, Jobe? Are any of those guys head and shoulders above Carter and Hall?
 

OriginalGatorHater

Sophomore
Joined
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Messages
11,161
Excluding obvious bagged guys we pushed hard to get and missed, what regional players on that list would you want instead of who we signed. That's my question. When I look at who we could have signed I don't see any players who are head and shoulders better than what we actually signed. Shawn Davis, Brendan Gant, Battle, Jobe? Are any of those guys head and shoulders above Carter and Hall?
You don't need to only sign So Fla kids. If you whiff on all the top So Fla guys, go after other areas.
 
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