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Speed

Larry said:
sfcane2 said:
Don't we have the fastest jr in the country committed. To go along with one of the fastest rbs in the country this year.
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We do have some speed recruited, for sure. I'm not saying we don't...it just looks like he doesn't place a premium on it.
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The past 4 years we have had plenty of track guys.. I'm all about sacrificing some pretty 40 times for mentally and physically tougher kids.
 
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Trav said:
Larry said:
sfcane2 said:
Don't we have the fastest jr in the country committed. To go along with one of the fastest rbs in the country this year.
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We do have some speed recruited, for sure. I'm not saying we don't...it just looks like he doesn't place a premium on it.
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The past 4 years we have had plenty of track guys.. I'm all about sacrificing some pretty 40 times for mentally and physically tougher kids.
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I'm not saying I wouldn't make the same sacrifice considering...just making an observation.

Mostly at the real speed positions, wide out and corner...at wide out we have some big boys in Carter and Jones...I think we need those types and we've mixed them in with more modest players like Waters and Lewis. At corner, we're seeing a lot of those 5'10"-5'11" 180, can play in short area types. Although, the addition of a reported legit 4.4 corner at 6'2" 200lbs gives me some idea that they are making room for ++ speed guys.

I think where there is room for the ++ athletes is at the top, its just not looking like those players will be in the mix. The Tracy Howards, the Deon Bushs, those types.
 
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RB
Duke Johnson 4.42
Danny Dillard 4.4 (scout)

WR
Herb Waters 4.51
Malcolm Lewis 4.63
Jontavious Carter 4.57
D'Mauri Jones N/A

DB
Angelo Jean-Louis 4.59
Vernon Davis 4.61
Larry Hope 4.5 (scout)
Nate Dortch N/A
Ladarius Gunter 4.4 (canesport)
Rayshawn Jenkins 4.57

LB
James Burgess 4.67
Raphael Kirby 4.66
Reggie Northrup 4.7 (canesport)
Josh Witt 4.5
Gabriel Terry 4.6

TE
Brandon Holifield N/A
 
I doubt Waters has ever run anything close to a 4.5 and take all those times with a grain of salt unless they were from camps. Of course 40 times are so ridiculously overrated to begin with..
 
It's not mutually exclusive. Speed puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the opposing defense. They have to account for each and every play. In a game where big plays make a difference, you absolutely need to have good players with great speed.
 
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wushah said:
It's not mutually exclusive. Speed puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the opposing defense. They have to account for each and every play. In a game where big plays make a difference, you absolutely need to have good players with great speed.
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Agreed, but raw foot speed alone without the other 500 intangibles that make for good players mean nothing, if all you have is the former. Case in point, Davon Johnson and Kendal Thompkins could probably match up raw speed-wise with a lot of the top WRs in the country. Travis Benjamin might pull a DVD at the combine and put up the best 40 time out of everyone. But so what?
 
Trav said:
wushah said:
It's not mutually exclusive. Speed puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the opposing defense. They have to account for each and every play. In a game where big plays make a difference, you absolutely need to have good players with great speed.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but raw foot speed alone without the other 500 intangibles that make for good players mean nothing, if all you have is the former. Case in point, Davon Johnson and Kendal Thompkins could probably match up raw speed-wise with a lot of the top WRs in the country. Travis Benjamin might pull a DVD at the combine and put up the best 40 time out of everyone. But so what?
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I think its wise, if you are at a school like Miami, to augment speed with the grit.

Miami was always a school at the forefront of innovation in college football nationally.

The fast sideline-to-sideline linebackers to counter the option...the Air Express and the Bomb Squad...these were things "before their time"...at least nationally.

When UF was winning with Meyer with his Wing Tebow with speed at the skill spots with that offense...it is something I could have always seen Miami going with, because its that next step in the evolution of college football combining that speed available with some of the old school grit and a really good defense with a mix of nasty, skill, and guys with a chip on their shoulder.

Guys like Thompkins and Johnson...who knows what they would have been with good coaching early on...I don't know either. But good coaches, nationally, can meld all of these player types into national champions...happens every year.
 
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Larry said:
Trav said:
wushah said:
It's not mutually exclusive. Speed puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the opposing defense. They have to account for each and every play. In a game where big plays make a difference, you absolutely need to have good players with great speed.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but raw foot speed alone without the other 500 intangibles that make for good players mean nothing, if all you have is the former. Case in point, Davon Johnson and Kendal Thompkins could probably match up raw speed-wise with a lot of the top WRs in the country. Travis Benjamin might pull a DVD at the combine and put up the best 40 time out of everyone. But so what?
Click to expand...

I think its wise, if you are at a school like Miami, to augment speed with the grit.

Miami was always a school at the forefront of innovation in college football nationally.

The fast sideline-to-sideline linebackers to counter the option...the Air Express and the Bomb Squad...these were things "before their time"...at least nationally.

When UF was winning with Meyer with his Wing Tebow with speed at the skill spots with that offense...it is something I could have always seen Miami going with, because its that next step in the evolution of college football combining that speed available with some of the old school grit and a really good defense with a mix of nasty, skill, and guys with a chip on their shoulder.

Guys like Thompkins and Johnson...who knows what they would have been with good coaching early on...I don't know either. But good coaches, nationally, can meld all of these player types into national champions...happens every year.
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Good point. Davon actually showed some promise as a freshman and then never developed. Thompkins.. who knows? Maybe just another Greentree Legend.
 
After the Dennis hire, we lost our innovation...we obviously peaked in talent after that, I mean, Butch was a good coach, IMO, elite recruiter/evaluator/staff developer (and honestly, that was a bit of an innovation in its own right, as, before the spread skyrocketed, college football was dominated by schools that basically had the best of the best and coached it up, so, maybe in some regards, Butch was an innovator himself), but once that talent went away and we couldn't replenish it, we basically became dull and lacked any foresight as to where college football was going...maybe my biggest gripe with Coker and Shannon as coaches...dull in every facet...same ole offense, same ole defense, same ole stuff for the past 15+ years. The college game has changed so much over the same time period...

One of the reasons I wanted a guy like Leach...the antithesis of dull with an offense that is at the forefront of college football.
 
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Larry said:
After the Dennis hire, we lost our innovation...we obviously peaked in talent after that, I mean, Butch was a good coach, IMO, elite recruiter/evaluator/staff developer (and honestly, that was a bit of an innovation in its own right, as, before the spread skyrocketed, college football was dominated by schools that basically had the best of the best and coached it up, so, maybe in some regards, Butch was an innovator himself), but once that talent went away and we couldn't replenish it, we basically became dull and lacked any foresight as to where college football was going...maybe my biggest gripe with Coker and Shannon as coaches...dull in every facet...same ole offense, same ole defense, same ole stuff for the past 15+ years. The college game has changed so much over the same time period...

One of the reasons I wanted a guy like Leach...the antithesis of dull with an offense that is at the forefront of college football.
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Yea but we didn't need "innovation" from 2000-2003. Just great players with the right work ethic. I think Fisch is a guy who can work a lot of different angles offensively and stay ahead of the curve. We might employ some spread offense going forward. Especially with a guy like Morris at the helm.
 
No, we didn't need innovation in a schematic sense from 99-03...but what Butch did with assembling and coaching up that talent is something that hadn't really been seen ever or since, and especially since scholarship limits...it may have been a rarity, but schools like USC had success doing it very similarly...pro schemes, pro players. So, in another regard it was innovative, just not schematically. In some ways you see a school like Alabama now doing it on defense...Butch was doing it at North Carolina defensively. Its not quite the spread, but it was something you didn't see before and have had it emulated a bit since.
 
LSU and Bama run conservative, physical, pro formation offenses with little innovation. They instead focus on player development ala Butch Davis. I'll take it.
 
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Agree with the innovative comments as this put Miami in the forefront of cfb in the 80 and 90's. However, Miami still had great players and that's what it comes down too to this day no matter what you won. Not only do you need players but assistant coaches set the tone for how they attack every team that is faced offensivly and defensively. Miami always had good players and good assistants.

Another important aspect is your abiltiy as a coach to evolve with your players/roster and with cfb as a whole. Any offense can be effective in cfb with the right players. Same with any defense. At this point game planning become important when you face other good/great teams. can you create and attack mismatches on offense etc?
 
Insanecane said:
LSU and Bama run conservative, physical, pro formation offenses with little innovation. They instead focus on player development ala Butch Davis. I'll take it.
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And both their offenses are putrid yearly, terrible example. They win with defenses 3-deep with NFL talent.
 
Insanecane said:
LSU and Bama run conservative, physical, pro formation offenses with little innovation. They instead focus on player development ala Butch Davis. I'll take it.
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Player development has more to do with recruiting the right players than anything.
 
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Insanecane said:
LSU and Bama run conservative, physical, pro formation offenses with little innovation. They instead focus on player development ala Butch Davis. I'll take it.
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And I think this is the offense we're going to... The only reason we didnt see it this year is because our D struggled... I think we see a lot of big wideouts for blocking and a few quick passes to move the chain...
 
Some guys run fast vs a clock.

Some guys run fast when they are chasing or being chased.

DVD ran a blistering time at the combine last year. 4.2 was it? Question for anyone with eyes. Did DVD play like a 4.2 or even a 4.5 guy in pads?

How about Brandon McGee? I swear he's the slowest 4.4 guy I have ever witnessed.

It's not all about speed against a clock. If a player has slow reaction skills he could be the fastest man in the world and he still isn't going to make the play.

Instincts? Do our players have them? Short term speed and reaction skills? Do we have those types of players?

I could care less what they run in shorts, I want football players first and foremost, players that will sacrifice themselves for the good of the team. I want guys that will fight for that extra yard, block downfield, put in effort in off season workouts, film room, practices, and games. Until we start developing those types of kids Miami will continue to be a mediocre program, it has nothing to do with speed.
 
sign Duke this year. Pull S. Michal (sp?) the year after. That'll build some RB speed up.
 
I would never argue that you choose speed over talent. Ever. You do, however, need to have guys that can bail you out when needed. In the college game, it equates into Ws. In the pro game, less so because the delta in speed between the top and bottom is a lot narrower.

Larry's example of our teams in the past, UF's teams under Meyer, are great examples. ****, LSU won a game because their returner has speed for days. Call it functional speed, raw speed, or whatever, but you absolutely need to recruit talented dudes that can run. Those are the elite recruits usually. We have to get some of those guys, win some games, and then get more.

On a tangent, a guy that I always thought would succeed here because of speed was R. Buchanon. Tremendous speed for a backer. I thought he would have been that sideline to sideline guy who could close in a second. He just never put on the weight or developed like I had hoped he would.
 
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