Some trends for perspective

[Pentagon Cane]

It took him four years to win the title at LSU. He was 26-12 his first three seasons, won it in his fourth and then turned around and finished 9-3 and split for the Phins.

Do you know how bad LSU was when he inherited that team? They won 7 total games and 3 conference games in the prior 2 seasons before his arrival. Do you know the last time LSU won the SEC Champ outright before Saban? 1986. He won in his second year.

That is a tremendous turnaround. That was an instant success.

Yes, Meyer inherited a 6-6 team when he rolled into Columbus, but the two years prior to that they were 23-2 and Rose and Sugar Bowl champs. Not like Tressel left an empty cupboard. Yes, he won the national title at Florida in 2006 in his second year, but he inherited a stacked roster. Zook was an awful coach but the boy could recruit. These two are easily the best in the business this generation.

Not for nothing, I don't know why anyone is comparing Richt to Meyer or Saban or Dabo or other elite coaches. Richt isn't in that category. That doesn't mean we can't have success, it just means Richt isn't in that category.

If Richt is going to do it here, he is going to have to improve some things (especially the coaching). In addition, talent isn't the reason we're losing to inferior opponents (2016 UNC, 2016 VT and 2017 Pitt).

Yes, Saban inherited a program on probation at Michigan State and got them to 9-2 his fifth year. DiNardo left a mess at LSU and Saban turned them his first year. Different conference in 2000 and not nearly as dominating. He got there in his fourth year and then they turned around and finished 9-3. Look Saban is the greatest but what he's done at Alabama is unprecedented and is nothing we've ever seen.

Yes, Richt has to improve. He's proven to be a good coach. He has to get better to take the next step. Miami is still trending up. How far up we shall see.

I will disagree with you. We lost to an equally talented Virginia Tech team in 2016. North Carolina finished 8-5 in 2016 and lost close games other than Virginia Tech. I just don't see overwhelmingly talent differentials yet. 2018 class fixes secondary and tight end deficiencies, wide receiver depth, running back depth, offensive line depth. We'll see how we finish with the defensive line.

 

[Consigliere]

It took him four years to win the title at LSU. He was 26-12 his first three seasons, won it in his fourth and then turned around and finished 9-3 and split for the Phins.

Do you know how bad LSU was when he inherited that team? They won 7 total games and 3 conference games in the prior 2 seasons before his arrival. Do you know the last time LSU won the SEC Champ outright before Saban? 1986. He won in his second year.

That is a tremendous turnaround. That was an instant success.

Yes, Meyer inherited a 6-6 team when he rolled into Columbus, but the two years prior to that they were 23-2 and Rose and Sugar Bowl champs. Not like Tressel left an empty cupboard. Yes, he won the national title at Florida in 2006 in his second year, but he inherited a stacked roster. Zook was an awful coach but the boy could recruit. These two are easily the best in the business this generation.

Not for nothing, I don't know why anyone is comparing Richt to Meyer or Saban or Dabo or other elite coaches. Richt isn't in that category. That doesn't mean we can't have success, it just means Richt isn't in that category.

If Richt is going to do it here, he is going to have to improve some things (especially the coaching). In addition, talent isn't the reason we're losing to inferior opponents (2016 UNC, 2016 VT and 2017 Pitt).

Yes, Saban inherited a program on probation at Michigan State and got them to 9-2 his fifth year. DiNardo left a mess at LSU and Saban turned them his first year. Different conference in 2000 and not nearly as dominating. He got there in his fourth year and then they turned around and finished 9-3. Look Saban is the greatest but what he's done at Alabama is unprecedented and is nothing we've ever seen.

Yes, Richt has to improve. He's proven to be a good coach. He has to get better to take the next step. Miami is still trending up. How far up we shall see.

I will disagree with you. We lost to an equally talented Virginia Tech team in 2016. North Carolina finished 8-5 in 2016 and lost close games other than Virginia Tech. I just don't see overwhelmingly talent differentials yet. 2018 class fixes secondary and tight end deficiencies, wide receiver depth, running back depth, offensive line depth. We'll see how we finish with the defensive line.

I am not the one comparing Richt to Saban or Dabo or Meyer because Richt isn’t in that category and it isn’t rational/logical to do so.

I just hope he can spot his flaws and make some obvious coaching changes as we trend up.

All 3 of those opponents were inferior talent wise, let me know if you need the data. Nobody is trading our talent for theirs (except their coaches). Richt shouldn’t need “overwhelming talent differential” to beat inferior teams. If he does need it, he won’t have real success here.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

It took him four years to win the title at LSU. He was 26-12 his first three seasons, won it in his fourth and then turned around and finished 9-3 and split for the Phins.

Do you know how bad LSU was when he inherited that team? They won 7 total games and 3 conference games in the prior 2 seasons before his arrival. Do you know the last time LSU won the SEC Champ outright before Saban? 1986. He won in his second year.

That is a tremendous turnaround. That was an instant success.

Yes, Meyer inherited a 6-6 team when he rolled into Columbus, but the two years prior to that they were 23-2 and Rose and Sugar Bowl champs. Not like Tressel left an empty cupboard. Yes, he won the national title at Florida in 2006 in his second year, but he inherited a stacked roster. Zook was an awful coach but the boy could recruit. These two are easily the best in the business this generation.

Not for nothing, I don't know why anyone is comparing Richt to Meyer or Saban or Dabo or other elite coaches. Richt isn't in that category. That doesn't mean we can't have success, it just means Richt isn't in that category.

If Richt is going to do it here, he is going to have to improve some things (especially the coaching). In addition, talent isn't the reason we're losing to inferior opponents (2016 UNC, 2016 VT and 2017 Pitt).

Yes, Saban inherited a program on probation at Michigan State and got them to 9-2 his fifth year. DiNardo left a mess at LSU and Saban turned them his first year. Different conference in 2000 and not nearly as dominating. He got there in his fourth year and then they turned around and finished 9-3. Look Saban is the greatest but what he's done at Alabama is unprecedented and is nothing we've ever seen.

Yes, Richt has to improve. He's proven to be a good coach. He has to get better to take the next step. Miami is still trending up. How far up we shall see.

I will disagree with you. We lost to an equally talented Virginia Tech team in 2016. North Carolina finished 8-5 in 2016 and lost close games other than Virginia Tech. I just don't see overwhelmingly talent differentials yet. 2018 class fixes secondary and tight end deficiencies, wide receiver depth, running back depth, offensive line depth. We'll see how we finish with the defensive line.

I am not the one comparing Richt to Saban or Dabo or Meyer because Richt isn’t in that category and it isn’t rational/logical to do so.

I just hope he can spot his flaws and make some obvious coaching changes as we trend up.

All 3 of those opponents were inferior talent wise, let me know if you need the data. Nobody is trading our talent for theirs (except their coaches). Richt shouldn’t need “overwhelming talent differential” to beat inferior teams. If he does need it, he won’t have real success here.

My point is about timing and trending up and realistic expectations. I've got no issue with Richt needing to get better and improve.

As for talent, we're going to have to disagree. Programs were fairly even and that's my opinion based on what I saw on the field. They did a better job developing their kids once they got on campus. I know Commonwealth high school football very well and kids in Northern Virginia and in the Tidewater area for the most part are way undervalued. Not a huge push for camps and many of the the high school coaches do a lousy job pushing for their kids. Tech does a good job identifying the right kids for their system and developing.

 

[SinCityCane]

Unless the Bama team plane crashes or their bus crashes before a game, the next two titles belong pretty much to Bama. Their isn't a rooster out there that can compare to what they have already and what they will bring in. If someone, like us, is lucky with a QB who can be a wild card like Deshaun Watson, then one could compete with Bama with a puncher's chance.

I agree that Richt is righting the ship and the future is very bright, but Bama..... cot dam......

This. Until Saban retires, forget about national titles. Pipe dream. Heck, can we even get past Clemson?

You sound like one of the dumbass GOP bots on Twitter.

We were one win away from a playoff spot with a consistently inacurate QB. Say what you want about the Clemson score, but whether or not your QB can make plays & create points dictates a team's momentum & energy-especially up front (look at the difference in play early on against Wisconsin vs after that momentum-killing INT on the screen pass. Different team). If Rosier lays the ball out to JT for the long TD instead of underthrowing him early on-as opposed to having the eventual missed FG & going down 2 TDs shortly afterwards-we'd have had a different edge, & that game, at the very least, isn't a blowout.

The gap is not as wide as you think. The more we win, the more South FL studs will stay home, which is all we need to be as talented as any team in the country. A lot of young Canes coming up in Miami high schools right now. We may end up being the reason Sabag retires.

 

[rmcid]

Miami finished six straight years unranked with Shannon and Golden. Richt's first year we finished 20th. This year we finished 13th.

Golden's last recruiting class ranked 27th. Richt's interim class finished 22nd. His first full class was 12th. This class is currently 6th, a sliver behind Bama.

The trends are easy to read. We are on the path to being Miami again. And when we're Miami, there isn't a more complete team in the nation.

So far Richt is doing the same thing that he did at UGA at Miami. Everybody knows he's a very good recruiter who puts up 9-10 wins every year. Why is that even noteworthy? You are lowering the bar by comparing a clearly competent coach to the incompetent coaches that ran us into the ground for a decade.

With our recruiting geography and the dog **** quality of the division, getting Miami to a coastal title was a given for a competent staff. I have no doubt that under Richt we'll regularly be winning the division. ​

You see a trend, I see Mark Richt being the same Mark Richt he was for 15 years at UGA. Going from good to elite is going to be much harder than going from mediocre to good. Richt has a long track record of running a good program. He has no track record of getting a program to elite.

Remember the college program Snely made elite before Miami? Jimmy's? Erickson's? Butch and Coker's? Saying we need a coach that already made a program elite is pretty asinine.

 

[westcoastcanes]

Miami finished six straight years unranked with Shannon and Golden. Richt's first year we finished 20th. This year we finished 13th.

Golden's last recruiting class ranked 27th. Richt's interim class finished 22nd. His first full class was 12th. This class is currently 6th, a sliver behind Bama.

The trends are easy to read. We are on the path to being Miami again. And when we're Miami, there isn't a more complete team in the nation.

So far Richt is doing the same thing that he did at UGA at Miami. Everybody knows he's a very good recruiter who puts up 9-10 wins every year. Why is that even noteworthy? You are lowering the bar by comparing a clearly competent coach to the incompetent coaches that ran us into the ground for a decade.

With our recruiting geography and the dog **** quality of the division, getting Miami to a coastal title was a given for a competent staff. I have no doubt that under Richt we'll regularly be winning the division. ​

You see a trend, I see Mark Richt being the same Mark Richt he was for 15 years at UGA. Going from good to elite is going to be much harder than going from mediocre to good. Richt has a long track record of running a good program. He has no track record of getting a program to elite.

Remember the college program Snely made elite before Miami? Jimmy's? Erickson's? Butch and Coker's? Saying we need a coach that already made a program elite is pretty asinine.

It is subject to interpretation. While you read what he said as needing someone who has MADE a program elite, someone else may see it as we have someone with a large enough body of work, at a place with resources equal to or greater than here that we may reasonably be able to surmise that he CAN'T make it elite (e.g. Championships, not 10 win seasons). That we may have someone who while admittedly ahead of schedule, may already be near his ceiling. An unknown commodity may very well never get us to the 10 win/season level. They also may very well get us past it.

 

[Canegrad89]

I realize running a college football fan message board makes you trade in optimism. I respect that. But if you think that Miami can compete at the level we once did, in the current climate of college football, you're deluding yourself.

People used to say we couldn't recruit elite classes anymore because "college football has changed" and "facilities." Now that we're signing elite players and the Army game looks like a Miami commercial, the story changes. Now we can't win because of student interns and deer antler powder.

Those $25k/year analysts aren't winning any games. Saban wins because he's the best coach and they sign the [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] class every year.

Alabama has always had bags. They almost got the death penalty twice, and unlike us, they earned it. We've never had that budget and still won 5.

The formula is the same. Keep the best players home, sign some out-of-state freaks and coach them. Unlike Alabama or Georgia, we don't have to hire Cuban guys or buy billboards to get it done. We just need to be the best version of Miami.

The infrastructure & process are great but it is all about the talent at the college level. You can develop & coach up 3 stars all you want (and some coaches do a great job of that) and win 8-9 games a year consistently but you will never win the MNC that way. Saban is winning due to dirty crooting & signing the #1 class every year (loaded with 4 & 5 star players). He then supplements that with his organizational skills, the huge support of that hick school, infrastructure, discipline and very good coaching. His teams are stout (very stout) but typically unspectacular. I don't think any of his teams were as dynamic as Miami 2001 and not as many of his players have achieved NFL HOF status (or Pro Bowl status). Alabama teams have actually looked stiff in the past. A great Miami team with dynamic skill position players and a ferocious defense could beat Alabama. We need 2-3 years more of elite recruiting though to do that.

 

[Consigliere]

It took him four years to win the title at LSU. He was 26-12 his first three seasons, won it in his fourth and then turned around and finished 9-3 and split for the Phins.

Do you know how bad LSU was when he inherited that team? They won 7 total games and 3 conference games in the prior 2 seasons before his arrival. Do you know the last time LSU won the SEC Champ outright before Saban? 1986. He won in his second year.

That is a tremendous turnaround. That was an instant success.

Yes, Meyer inherited a 6-6 team when he rolled into Columbus, but the two years prior to that they were 23-2 and Rose and Sugar Bowl champs. Not like Tressel left an empty cupboard. Yes, he won the national title at Florida in 2006 in his second year, but he inherited a stacked roster. Zook was an awful coach but the boy could recruit. These two are easily the best in the business this generation.

Not for nothing, I don't know why anyone is comparing Richt to Meyer or Saban or Dabo or other elite coaches. Richt isn't in that category. That doesn't mean we can't have success, it just means Richt isn't in that category.

If Richt is going to do it here, he is going to have to improve some things (especially the coaching). In addition, talent isn't the reason we're losing to inferior opponents (2016 UNC, 2016 VT and 2017 Pitt).

Yes, Saban inherited a program on probation at Michigan State and got them to 9-2 his fifth year. DiNardo left a mess at LSU and Saban turned them his first year. Different conference in 2000 and not nearly as dominating. He got there in his fourth year and then they turned around and finished 9-3. Look Saban is the greatest but what he's done at Alabama is unprecedented and is nothing we've ever seen.

Yes, Richt has to improve. He's proven to be a good coach. He has to get better to take the next step. Miami is still trending up. How far up we shall see.

I will disagree with you. We lost to an equally talented Virginia Tech team in 2016. North Carolina finished 8-5 in 2016 and lost close games other than Virginia Tech. I just don't see overwhelmingly talent differentials yet. 2018 class fixes secondary and tight end deficiencies, wide receiver depth, running back depth, offensive line depth. We'll see how we finish with the defensive line.

I am not the one comparing Richt to Saban or Dabo or Meyer because Richt isn’t in that category and it isn’t rational/logical to do so.

I just hope he can spot his flaws and make some obvious coaching changes as we trend up.

All 3 of those opponents were inferior talent wise, let me know if you need the data. Nobody is trading our talent for theirs (except their coaches). Richt shouldn’t need “overwhelming talent differential” to beat inferior teams. If he does need it, he won’t have real success here.

My point is about timing and trending up and realistic expectations. I've got no issue with Richt needing to get better and improve.

As for talent, we're going to have to disagree. Programs were fairly even and that's my opinion based on what I saw on the field. They did a better job developing their kids once they got on campus. I know Commonwealth high school football very well and kids in Northern Virginia and in the Tidewater area for the most part are way undervalued. Not a huge push for camps and many of the the high school coaches do a lousy job pushing for their kids. Tech does a good job identifying the right kids for their system and developing.

I think realistic expectations should include beating teams with inferior talent.

You can have your own Pentagon Cane rankings for recruiting but the actual data says otherwise. We had a talent advantage to those three teams. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[tcgrad1014]

Miami finished six straight years unranked with Shannon and Golden. Richt's first year we finished 20th. This year we finished 13th.

Golden's last recruiting class ranked 27th. Richt's interim class finished 22nd. His first full class was 12th. This class is currently 6th, a sliver behind Bama.

The trends are easy to read. We are on the path to being Miami again. And when we're Miami, there isn't a more complete team in the nation.

So far Richt is doing the same thing that he did at UGA at Miami. Everybody knows he's a very good recruiter who puts up 9-10 wins every year. Why is that even noteworthy? You are lowering the bar by comparing a clearly competent coach to the incompetent coaches that ran us into the ground for a decade.

With our recruiting geography and the dog **** quality of the division, getting Miami to a coastal title was a given for a competent staff. I have no doubt that under Richt we'll regularly be winning the division. ​

You see a trend, I see Mark Richt being the same Mark Richt he was for 15 years at UGA. Going from good to elite is going to be much harder than going from mediocre to good. Richt has a long track record of running a good program. He has no track record of getting a program to elite.

Remember the college program Snely made elite before Miami? Jimmy's? Erickson's? Butch and Coker's? Saying we need a coach that already made a program elite is pretty asinine.

It is subject to interpretation. While you read what he said as needing someone who has MADE a program elite, someone else may see it as we have someone with a large enough body of work, at a place with resources equal to or greater than here that we may reasonably be able to surmise that he CAN'T make it elite (e.g. Championships, not 10 win seasons). That we may have someone who while admittedly ahead of schedule, may already be near his ceiling. An unknown commodity may very well never get us to the 10 win/season level. They also may very well get us past it.

Well said. I would add that being "ahead of schedule" is a fallacy. Richt inherited an 8 win program. He won 9 in year one and 10 in year 2. If the improvement had been any less there would have been no improvement.

 

[The Franchise]

I've cooled off a little after the disappointing end to the season. In retrospect, this team was learning how to handle good fortune. Rick set the goal as the Coastal title, and as soon as we got there we rolled over and died.

We looked like a completely different team at the end of the year than the team that peaked in the ND and VT games. We didn't handle success all that well, and, hopefully, we can grow from that.

There's no denying that we've made a significant jump from where we were as a program two years ago. That's for sure. I'm hopeful that we can continue to make progress with the infusion of more talent and maybe some adjustments from our HC on how he goes about preparing.

And if we get that lightning in a bottle dynamic QB look out.