Some perspective on this Butch situation and CIS

[The Franchise]

Butch built the greatest team ever. When was that exactly? Not 2 years ago, not 5 years ago, not 10 years ago, over 15 years ago.

Why did he underachieve at UNC? He had some talent there and still managed to go 15-17 in the ACC.

Imagine Butch on the recruiting trail in 2016 telling kids...hey son, when you were 2 years old, I beat UF 37-20 in the Sugar Bowl. Before you were born, I put together the greatest team ever assembled. When you were 9, I went 15-17 in ACC games at UNC.

If Butch was this football God many on this site and the wEz claim him to be, he would've had some success at UNC but he didn't. He'd have a NC as a head coach but he doesn't.

One of the greatest coRches of all time, Charlie Weis, has the same number of 10+ win seasons as the great Butch Davis.

Continue on with this silly circle jerk over a coach that hasn't had any success in college football since 2001.

2000? 2001? 2002? **** sure wasn't Clappy. All after near death penalty type sanctions. Give it up, troll

Butch wasn't the coach in 2001 or 2002. Why not give John Blake credit for the NC Stoops won at OU? Give Zook Urban's NC at UF too.

 

[sitzee]

Are you kidding? How can you say that their strengths are similar? Golden has to be one of the worst X's & O's coaches I've ever seen. How many times have we gone into halftime leading only to get Blown out the 2nd half? No lead is safe with Golden. How many come from behind wins did he have at The U? As for developing talent, last year we had 7 Players selected in last years draft, how much influence did Golden and his staff have on these players? I think it was more how they performed at the various Bowl Games the kids played in, the NFL Combine, and the Pro Day on campus.
As for Butch he wins the Big Games, he's had how many 1st round picks selected from his teams? I believe I just 31 1st round picks!!! It's not like he's coached at Alabama and he's gotten all the 4 & 5 star recruits.
Golden I will say was the right guy to get us out of the whole Nevin Shapiro mess, and when he got here, Golden said all the right things but never backed them up and somewhere along the way he lost that enthusiasm.
You can't put these 2 guys on the same level of Coaching because Butch would eat Golden's Lunch all day long

QUOTE=duke4heisman;2368526]

Please note that this isn't a "rebuild". This isn't 1-11 Stanford. This isn't a decimated roster. This isn't a program under NCAA investigation. This isn't a program with scholarship restrictions.

This is a team with a roster full of future NFL players that has been undercoached on gamedays and is stuck in a conservative, slow, scared team philosophy that doesn't maximize what they can do on the field.

This program doesn't need a guy to rebuild it and to fix a broken roster. It needs a great football coach who takes top talent and maximizes it on the field. Does Butch's past show that he maximizes talent with results on the field? Does his offense get the best out of the type of crazy speed we have down here? John Shoop?

Many of Folden's strengths are similar to Butch's strengths. Butch is better than Folden because Butch is a much better evaluator/developer than Folden. However, when it comes to maximizing talent on the field with results (read: wins not putting players in the NFL) they are pretty equal.

UM doesn't need a "rebuilder" which is really Butch's strength. UM needs a great HC who maximizes talent not minimizes it.

I think you would have to be pretty good at maximizing talent to have 30+ 1st round picks. Nice try though.[/QUOTE]

 

[Thommy30w]

Butch was not as great as people are making him out to be on here. Struggled as a game day coach, at times, with a chaotic sideline. But he was also not as bad as people on here make him out to be. He is no Al Golden. Did Al Golden get offered NFL jobs? He had success at the NFL (Coach on Super Bowl Champions) and took the Browns to playoffs. Are you going to to tell me that if he had stayed he couldnt have won 10 games with those teams Coker had?

 

[Dash]

Butch built the greatest team ever. When was that exactly? Not 2 years ago, not 5 years ago, not 10 years ago, over 15 years ago.

Why did he underachieve at UNC? He had some talent there and still managed to go 15-17 in the ACC.

Imagine Butch on the recruiting trail in 2016 telling kids...hey son, when you were 2 years old, I beat UF 37-20 in the Sugar Bowl. Before you were born, I put together the greatest team ever assembled. When you were 9, I went 15-17 in ACC games at UNC.

If Butch was this football God many on this site and the wEz claim him to be, he would've had some success at UNC but he didn't. He'd have a NC as a head coach but he doesn't.

One of the greatest coRches of all time, Charlie Weis, has the same number of 10+ win seasons as the great Butch Davis.

Continue on with this silly circle jerk over a coach that hasn't had any success in college football since 2001.

2000? 2001? 2002? **** sure wasn't Clappy. All after near death penalty type sanctions. Give it up, troll

Butch wasn't the coach in 2001 or 2002. Why not give John Blake credit for the NC Stoops won at OU? Give Zook Urban's NC at UF too.

This is my new favorite game. It's called "re-assign the titles".

 

[Dash]

Butch was not as great as people are making him out to be on here. Struggled as a game day coach, at times, with a chaotic sideline. But he was also not as bad as people on here make him out to be. He is no Al Golden. Did Al Golden get offered NFL jobs? He had success at the NFL (Coach on Super Bowl Champions) and took the Browns to playoffs. Are you going to to tell me that if he had stayed he couldnt have won 10 games with those teams Coker had?

The 2000-2003 Canes had more talent than God.

It's even more incredible to see the rosters of the teams we played.

And yet, we only won one National title.

USC, with lesser talent, won 2 in the same amount of time. Bama won 3. UF won 2. Yet Miami, with more talent than any of those teams, only won once. That team, with that talent, should have won 4 in a row.

But we didn't. B/C while we had a massive talent advantage, we had subpar coaching.

So if the idea is that I should settle for a "not as bad as people think" coach is something I'm not into.

 

[LuCane]

For ****'s sake.

Has this really devolved into a "people who think Butch walks on water" vs "people who think he doesn't walk on water?"

If there's anything to learn from this, it's that Miami's core fanbase just gravitates toward extreme sides on virtually anything.

 

[Dash]

For ****'s sake.

Has this really devolved into a "people who think Butch walks on water" vs "people who think he doesn't walk on water?"

If there's anything to learn from this, it's that Miami's core fanbase just gravitates toward extreme sides on virtually anything.

I don't think it is extreme, at all, to believe that a 64 year old who hasn't coached in a few years should be the fall back option.

I think claiming that Butch Davis is the only coach who can ever win at Miami, is not only extreme, but psychotic.

 

[Thommy30w]

Butch was not as great as people are making him out to be on here. Struggled as a game day coach, at times, with a chaotic sideline. But he was also not as bad as people on here make him out to be. He is no Al Golden. Did Al Golden get offered NFL jobs? He had success at the NFL (Coach on Super Bowl Champions) and took the Browns to playoffs. Are you going to to tell me that if he had stayed he couldnt have won 10 games with those teams Coker had?

The 2000-2003 Canes had more talent than God.

It's even more incredible to see the rosters of the teams we played.

And yet, we only won one National title.

USC, with lesser talent, won 2 in the same amount of time. Bama won 3. UF won 2. Yet Miami, with more talent than any of those teams, only won once. That team, with that talent, should have won 4 in a row.

But we didn't. B/C while we had a massive talent advantage, we had subpar coaching.

So if the idea is that I should settle for a "not as bad as people think" coach is something I'm not into.

I am not locked on just Butch. I think he is a great fall back option. I want them to do a true national search and find the best coach. I am merely stating that people are taking extreme views on Butch. He does not walk on water and he was not an awful coach. People are starting at act like the guy is a garbage coach and thats not true either.

 

[LuCane]

For ****'s sake.

Has this really devolved into a "people who think Butch walks on water" vs "people who think he doesn't walk on water?"

If there's anything to learn from this, it's that Miami's core fanbase just gravitates toward extreme sides on virtually anything.

I don't think it is extreme, at all, to believe that a 64 year old who hasn't coached in a few years should be the fall back option.

I think claiming that Butch Davis is the only coach who can ever win at Miami, is not only extreme, but psychotic.

The first line is more misrepresentation of a position. Really doesn't add much. I don't think most posters think it's unreasonable to have "Butch as a fallback."

There are perhaps less than 10 very vocal posters championing that bolded perspective. It's not that difficult to avoid, as few of them offer anything more than one liners that amount to "Butch, bro." If the idea is to build up this enormous straw man to represent what "most" people think around here, then surely it'll be easy to burn down that misrepresented position. Hooray, one side will "win the argument" and be "smarter."

Also, I chuckle at the "fall back option." Fall back to what? Some of you guys are championing Chip Kelly and the like. Who the heck disagrees with that? An extreme minority? Any reasonable poster wants a thorough search. Most reasonable posters want us to shoot big first and see what we can hit. However, I've now read countless posts burning down the position that somehow people just want "Butch and no one else?" It's cheap and pointless. We did a preference thread. A ton of people had Butch at either 1 or 2 - with the qualifier that, if we can get someone like Chip Kelly or Patterson, that would obviously be preferred.

Discuss away, but I think the representation that most people want "Butch or no one" is flawed and akin to picking on the easy target. A group of you guys are some of the sharpest posters on the site. It'd be much more interesting to see a discussion about Butch's noted strengths and flaws (penchant to go conservative, OCs, etc.) vs Herman's strengths and flaws (questions against top competition, small hiring sample, etc.) vs Fuente's strengths and flaws, etc., etc.

 

[Dash]

I have read far more than just ten people who are Butch or no one.

You can't write a single thread about any other coach without someone's response being "Butch".

 

[LuCane]

I have read far more than just ten people who are Butch or no one.

You can't write a single thread about any other coach without someone's response being "Butch".

Because it's the same posters. Look at the preference thread. "Butch or no one" posters represent a small minority.

 

[miamimike]

For ****'s sake.

Has this really devolved into a "people who think Butch walks on water" vs "people who think he doesn't walk on water?"

If there's anything to learn from this, it's that Miami's core fanbase just gravitates toward extreme sides on virtually anything.

I don't think it is extreme, at all, to believe that a 64 year old who hasn't coached in a few years should be the fall back option.

I think claiming that Butch Davis is the only coach who can ever win at Miami, is not only extreme, but psychotic.

I don't think people are saying that. Most just feel he has the least amount of risk and wants to be here the most. If there were competent people in decision making positions there probably would not be as much divide. Hermann may be the next JJ but does anybody trust Dimare or Blake to see that? Like Chise said in another thread Dimare is the actual AD. There are other coaches that can win at Miami. Right now Butch is whats needed.

 

[jkaz1]

Butch built the greatest team ever. When was that exactly? Not 2 years ago, not 5 years ago, not 10 years ago, over 15 years ago.

Why did he underachieve at UNC? He had some talent there and still managed to go 15-17 in the ACC.

Imagine Butch on the recruiting trail in 2016 telling kids...hey son, when you were 2 years old, I beat UF 37-20 in the Sugar Bowl. Before you were born, I put together the greatest team ever assembled. When you were 9, I went 15-17 in ACC games at UNC.

If Butch was this football God many on this site and the wEz claim him to be, he would've had some success at UNC but he didn't. He'd have a NC as a head coach but he doesn't.

One of the greatest coRches of all time, Charlie Weis, has the same number of 10+ win seasons as the great Butch Davis.

Continue on with this silly circle jerk over a coach that hasn't had any success in college football since 2001.

 

[Klamalama]

Butch was not as great as people are making him out to be on here. Struggled as a game day coach, at times, with a chaotic sideline. But he was also not as bad as people on here make him out to be. He is no Al Golden. Did Al Golden get offered NFL jobs? He had success at the NFL (Coach on Super Bowl Champions) and took the Browns to playoffs. Are you going to to tell me that if he had stayed he couldnt have won 10 games with those teams Coker had?

The 2000-2003 Canes had more talent than God.

It's even more incredible to see the rosters of the teams we played.

And yet, we only won one National title.

USC, with lesser talent, won 2 in the same amount of time. Bama won 3. UF won 2. Yet Miami, with more talent than any of those teams, only won once. That team, with that talent, should have won 4 in a row.

But we didn't. B/C while we had a massive talent advantage, we had subpar coaching.

So if the idea is that I should settle for a "not as bad as people think" coach is something I'm not into.

 

[poncho0091]

Claims to sympathize with those sick of the proliferation of Butch cult threads extolling his virtues, claiming he's better than Saban and ignoring his many flaws. Then posts a diatribe rehashing the same stuff the cult has attempted to indoctrinate us with daily and restates the multifold excuses as to why their leader lost so many football games with rosters stacked with NFL players.

Listen, friend. Most rational people understand that Butch has some great strengths. We have acknowledged those repeatedly. However, we have paid close attention to every year of his career and still don't think he walks on water. You're not going to convince anyone who has studied him as closely as some of us have that he doesn't have some major major flaws in his game. So just give it up, friend.

The post was not meant to be an issue of strengths and flaws. The post was about the fact that the anti Butch group downplays surrounding circumstances as if they were meaningless. The stats you guys present are pretty meaningless when reviewed under context. I'm still waiting for you guys to point out any other coach who accomplished what Butch did while under those kind of sanctions.

This thread was not a we must hire Butch thread, it was a you don't have to like him, but let's stop disrespecting the man as if he is some scrub coach while slobbing over the Saban and Urban nutsacks of the world. You guys have more respect for guys we can't stand than you do for a guy who put us in a position to say we have the greatest team ever. I have respect for what Urban and Saban do, but I got respect for Butch as well.

 

[Thommy30w]

Butch was not as great as people are making him out to be on here. Struggled as a game day coach, at times, with a chaotic sideline. But he was also not as bad as people on here make him out to be. He is no Al Golden. Did Al Golden get offered NFL jobs? He had success at the NFL (Coach on Super Bowl Champions) and took the Browns to playoffs. Are you going to to tell me that if he had stayed he couldnt have won 10 games with those teams Coker had?

The 2000-2003 Canes had more talent than God.

It's even more incredible to see the rosters of the teams we played.

And yet, we only won one National title.

USC, with lesser talent, won 2 in the same amount of time. Bama won 3. UF won 2. Yet Miami, with more talent than any of those teams, only won once. That team, with that talent, should have won 4 in a row.

But we didn't. B/C while we had a massive talent advantage, we had subpar coaching.

So if the idea is that I should settle for a "not as bad as people think" coach is something I'm not into.

Lets play that game for a second. Look at the talent Jimmy had at Miami and he won only 1 title. Thats right. 1. The 86 team was loaded and lost. In fact, people were starting to question Jimmy and if he hadnt won in 87, the questions would have grown louder. So... using your logic, Jimmy wasnt up to par?

 

[poncho0091]

Look I want Butch for the job but that doesn't mean it is Butch or bust or that another coach can't succeed here. 1 coach had never made the university outside of Howard schnellenber since he started it remember that,

This was never a thread of me promoting we have to hire Butch. This was about the disrespect he receives from guys who claim to be Cane fans and sure have no problem using the positive results of Butch Davis while trying to give him as little credit for it as possible.

 

[Consigliere]

Look I want Butch for the job but that doesn't mean it is Butch or bust or that another coach can't succeed here. 1 coach had never made the university outside of Howard schnellenber since he started it remember that,

This was never a thread of me promoting we have to hire Butch. This was about the disrespect he receives from guys who claim to be Cane fans and sure have no problem using the positive results of Butch Davis while trying to give him as little credit for it as possible.

What are you his publicist?

 

[Thommy30w]

Butch built the greatest team ever. When was that exactly? Not 2 years ago, not 5 years ago, not 10 years ago, over 15 years ago.

Why did he underachieve at UNC? He had some talent there and still managed to go 15-17 in the ACC.

Imagine Butch on the recruiting trail in 2016 telling kids...hey son, when you were 2 years old, I beat UF 37-20 in the Sugar Bowl. Before you were born, I put together the greatest team ever assembled. When you were 9, I went 15-17 in ACC games at UNC.

If Butch was this football God many on this site and the wEz claim him to be, he would've had some success at UNC but he didn't. He'd have a NC as a head coach but he doesn't.

One of the greatest coRches of all time, Charlie Weis, has the same number of 10+ win seasons as the great Butch Davis.

Continue on with this silly circle jerk over a coach that hasn't had any success in college football since 2001.

2000? 2001? 2002? **** sure wasn't Clappy. All after near death penalty type sanctions. Give it up, troll

Butch wasn't the coach in 2001 or 2002. Why not give John Blake credit for the NC Stoops won at OU? Give Zook Urban's NC at UF too.

Blake and Zook were fired. Butch left to coach in the NFL. What Butch was doing, was working at Miami. That was not the cast for Blake and Zook. So, your analogy is not completely on point. However, I will say that Zook should get some credit because he recruited the players that Urban used to win. Jimmy got credit for Erickson's wins because Dennis was coaching his Jimmy's players. To me, that is a better analogy.

 

[Calinative]

Completely agree. I want Butch because I have complete confidence he will rebuild this program to win a National Championship, or at the very least an OB.
But thats not saying there can't be another good hire. For example I think Hue Jackson could definitely turn this team around. And obviously if Chip were an option, he easily could.. I just think Butch has proven twice he can, has complete support of the fans, and will even bring in a lot of young coaches that will probably go on to be HCs someday. As good as he is at bringing in top players, he's almost just as good at bringing in top coaches.