So You Want a Savage DC? Part III: Tubby's Descendants

[NEFLDEFENSE]

I mean palms has to be your "quarters" family base. A lot of intricacies involved in palms. Corners/safeties/LBs alignment technique are different than in true quarters. Also gotta get a ton of reps in that "grey area" on #2 's break, which is 5-7 yards.

 

[FullyERicht]

Jimmy didn't base out of cover 2

LOL oh really? Maybe not in Dallas but when he got here and was dead set on killing the option, it was via C2.

We played the option every week? His baby was quarters. Always was.

Clearly every single thing about the Miami Over 4-3 was Jimmy's baby. He invented it. The premise is his underlings made different things their base coverage. The 2-deep element was the foundation for it all.

 

[FullyERicht]

I mean palms has to be your "quarters" family base. A lot of intricacies involved in palms. Corners/safeties/LBs alignment technique are different than in true quarters. Also gotta get a ton of reps in that "grey area" on #2 's break, which is 5-7 yards.

Yes well you have to communicate really well if you make it a check from C4. No different from playing lots of modern pattern match coverage though. I agree that if you are asking Palms to be a part of your base rules, it becomes a lot. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

 

[WestEndZone]

Jimmy didn't base out of cover 2

LOL oh really? Maybe not in Dallas but when he got here and was dead set on killing the option, it was via C2.

We played the option every week?

No but the entire basis of his system came from defeating the option. The structure of the ENTIRE THING was born out of that.

Stopping the option out of quarters is more than just viable. I would say it's even better than Cov 2. Ever tried pitching off a screaming safety? If you don't block him, your pitch man is going to be knocked out of the game. You can crack him with the SE and leave the corner as the pitch man (turning it into CO 2 type responsibilities). You can block him with the slot or TE, but you're leaving a 50 stack linebacker unblocked. Playing option out of quarters allows you to have the best of both worlds. Why do you think teams like Michigan State play quarters all game vs Oregon?

 

[NEFLDEFENSE]

Yeah. Palms can only be ran with 2 detached, and the palms read element takes the safety out of the run game.

 

[WestEndZone]

Yeah. Palms can only be ran with 2 detached, and the palms read element takes the safety out of the run game.

Then all you need to do is invert one safety and check to sky, easy; or just check to 2--easier.

 

[FullyERicht]

Jimmy didn't base out of cover 2

LOL oh really? Maybe not in Dallas but when he got here and was dead set on killing the option, it was via C2.

We played the option every week?

No but the entire basis of his system came from defeating the option. The structure of the ENTIRE THING was born out of that.

Stopping the option out of quarters is more than just viable. I would say it's even better than Cov 2. Ever tried pitching off a screaming safety? If you don't block him, your pitch man is going to be knocked out of the game. You can crack him with the SE and leave the corner as the pitch man (turning it into CO 2 type responsibilities). You can block him with the slot or TE, but you're leaving a 50 stack linebacker unblocked. Playing option out of quarters allows you to have the best of both worlds. Why do you think teams like Michigan State play quarters all game vs Oregon?

Oh absolutely you can, and it is probably the actual best way.

But their quarters concepts came after their C2 concepts. In the early days they ran quarters as a red zone coverage only. They then realized they could do it effectively anywhere on the field and so "double switch" (as they call Quarters) was the base in Dallas. But it all came out of C2.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Good stuff. I appreciates the X's & O's talk.

When is part IV comin'? Do I need to purchase tickets in advance?

 

[NEFLDEFENSE]

Yeah. Palms can only be ran with 2 detached, and the palms read element takes the safety out of the run game.

Then all you need to do is invert one safety and check to sky, easy; or just check to 2--easier.

True Quarters= 9 run players
Palms vs. 2 detached to side= less safety, but more sound in pass defense. If only one side has 2 detached then you still have 8 run fit players, whereas the offense would only have 7 blockers. If it was 2x2 , you have 7 run fit players vs. 6 possible blockers (BSE on read plays ) .
Cover 3= 8 run players
Cover 2 = 7 run players +2 late perimeter players

 

[WestEndZone]

LOL oh really? Maybe not in Dallas but when he got here and was dead set on killing the option, it was via C2.

We played the option every week?

No but the entire basis of his system came from defeating the option. The structure of the ENTIRE THING was born out of that.

Stopping the option out of quarters is more than just viable. I would say it's even better than Cov 2. Ever tried pitching off a screaming safety? If you don't block him, your pitch man is going to be knocked out of the game. You can crack him with the SE and leave the corner as the pitch man (turning it into CO 2 type responsibilities). You can block him with the slot or TE, but you're leaving a 50 stack linebacker unblocked. Playing option out of quarters allows you to have the best of both worlds. Why do you think teams like Michigan State play quarters all game vs Oregon?

Oh absolutely you can, and it is probably the actual best way.

But their quarters concepts came after their C2 concepts. In the early days they ran quarters as a red zone coverage only. They then realized they could do it effectively anywhere on the field and so "double switch" (as they call Quarters) was the base in Dallas. But it all came out of C2.

Totally agreed--everything came from Cover 2 (Tampa 2--and not 2 Invert). Some teams refer to quarters as Read 2, Palms, 2 Sink, Blue (kinda sounds like two, but not quite), etc. My point is that Jimmy's system really took off and became incredibly dominant when they started playing quarters like we know it today. Tampa 2 and Quarters are distant cousins at this point.

 

[FullyERicht]

We played the option every week?

No but the entire basis of his system came from defeating the option. The structure of the ENTIRE THING was born out of that.

Stopping the option out of quarters is more than just viable. I would say it's even better than Cov 2. Ever tried pitching off a screaming safety? If you don't block him, your pitch man is going to be knocked out of the game. You can crack him with the SE and leave the corner as the pitch man (turning it into CO 2 type responsibilities). You can block him with the slot or TE, but you're leaving a 50 stack linebacker unblocked. Playing option out of quarters allows you to have the best of both worlds. Why do you think teams like Michigan State play quarters all game vs Oregon?

Oh absolutely you can, and it is probably the actual best way.

But their quarters concepts came after their C2 concepts. In the early days they ran quarters as a red zone coverage only. They then realized they could do it effectively anywhere on the field and so "double switch" (as they call Quarters) was the base in Dallas. But it all came out of C2.

Totally agreed--everything came from Cover 2 (Tampa 2--and not 2 Invert). Some teams refer to quarters as Read 2, Palms, 2 Sink, Blue (kinda sounds like two, but not quite), etc. My point is that Jimmy's system really took off and became incredibly dominant when they started playing quarters like we know it today. Tampa 2 and Quarters are distant cousins at this point.

Tampa 2 has nothing to do with JJ or our defense. I think you mean Squat Cover 2? In which case yes, everything came from that and branched off to totally different things.

 

[Noliaboi]

If I'm reading this correctly, this is the type of defense most dependent on athletic superiority. You'd need the horses up front to apply constant pressure and dictate to the offense, but you'd also need freaks on the back end to diagnose plays quickly or make up for it with speed when plays are misdiagnosed. Is that right?

Yes and no. MSU has had like one or 2 NFL kids on their team the last 5 years. It's more about recruiting speed and coaching the kids up to do their jobs. B/C the system is simple, it allows kids to play fast. Obviously they also do the same JJ type thing where kids who are Safeties in HS get moved to OLB, OLBs to DE, etc etc.

They make it work b/c instead of wasting time trying to compete with the Michigans and Bamas for big Nose Tackles and stud OLB/rusher types, they recruit talented fast kids and find a home for them.

Michigan State had 2 of the best CBs in CFB over the last 3-4 years.

 

[FullyERicht]

If I'm reading this correctly, this is the type of defense most dependent on athletic superiority. You'd need the horses up front to apply constant pressure and dictate to the offense, but you'd also need freaks on the back end to diagnose plays quickly or make up for it with speed when plays are misdiagnosed. Is that right?

Yes and no. MSU has had like one or 2 NFL kids on their team the last 5 years. It's more about recruiting speed and coaching the kids up to do their jobs. B/C the system is simple, it allows kids to play fast. Obviously they also do the same JJ type thing where kids who are Safeties in HS get moved to OLB, OLBs to DE, etc etc.

They make it work b/c instead of wasting time trying to compete with the Michigans and Bamas for big Nose Tackles and stud OLB/rusher types, they recruit talented fast kids and find a home for them.

Michigan State had 2 of the best CBs in CFB over the last 3-4 years.

Who have done what in the NFL? Don't mistaken kids excelling in their system for "needing to out talent people". MSU isn't pulling in top 5 classes every year, and they aren't pumping out NFL players either.

 

[WestEndZone]

No but the entire basis of his system came from defeating the option. The structure of the ENTIRE THING was born out of that.

Stopping the option out of quarters is more than just viable. I would say it's even better than Cov 2. Ever tried pitching off a screaming safety? If you don't block him, your pitch man is going to be knocked out of the game. You can crack him with the SE and leave the corner as the pitch man (turning it into CO 2 type responsibilities). You can block him with the slot or TE, but you're leaving a 50 stack linebacker unblocked. Playing option out of quarters allows you to have the best of both worlds. Why do you think teams like Michigan State play quarters all game vs Oregon?

Oh absolutely you can, and it is probably the actual best way.

But their quarters concepts came after their C2 concepts. In the early days they ran quarters as a red zone coverage only. They then realized they could do it effectively anywhere on the field and so "double switch" (as they call Quarters) was the base in Dallas. But it all came out of C2.

Totally agreed--everything came from Cover 2 (Tampa 2--and not 2 Invert). Some teams refer to quarters as Read 2, Palms, 2 Sink, Blue (kinda sounds like two, but not quite), etc. My point is that Jimmy's system really took off and became incredibly dominant when they started playing quarters like we know it today. Tampa 2 and Quarters are distant cousins at this point.

Tampa 2 has nothing to do with JJ or our defense. I think you mean Squat Cover 2? In which case yes, everything came from that and branched off to totally different things.

Again, terminology issues. Squat 2 and Tampa 2 are nearly the exact same thing. Tampa 2 is the popular term used today.

 

[FullyERicht]

Stopping the option out of quarters is more than just viable. I would say it's even better than Cov 2. Ever tried pitching off a screaming safety? If you don't block him, your pitch man is going to be knocked out of the game. You can crack him with the SE and leave the corner as the pitch man (turning it into CO 2 type responsibilities). You can block him with the slot or TE, but you're leaving a 50 stack linebacker unblocked. Playing option out of quarters allows you to have the best of both worlds. Why do you think teams like Michigan State play quarters all game vs Oregon?

Oh absolutely you can, and it is probably the actual best way.

But their quarters concepts came after their C2 concepts. In the early days they ran quarters as a red zone coverage only. They then realized they could do it effectively anywhere on the field and so "double switch" (as they call Quarters) was the base in Dallas. But it all came out of C2.

Totally agreed--everything came from Cover 2 (Tampa 2--and not 2 Invert). Some teams refer to quarters as Read 2, Palms, 2 Sink, Blue (kinda sounds like two, but not quite), etc. My point is that Jimmy's system really took off and became incredibly dominant when they started playing quarters like we know it today. Tampa 2 and Quarters are distant cousins at this point.

Tampa 2 has nothing to do with JJ or our defense. I think you mean Squat Cover 2? In which case yes, everything came from that and branched off to totally different things.

Again, terminology issues. Squat 2 and Tampa 2 are nearly the exact same thing. Tampa 2 is the popular term used today.

Except that's not actually true at all. Squat Halves and Tampa 2 are different coverages.

Squat 2, aka old school cover2, has 5 underneath zone players and 2 deep zone players. Tampa 2 has 4 underneath zone players and three deep zone players.

 

[WestEndZone]

Oh absolutely you can, and it is probably the actual best way.

But their quarters concepts came after their C2 concepts. In the early days they ran quarters as a red zone coverage only. They then realized they could do it effectively anywhere on the field and so "double switch" (as they call Quarters) was the base in Dallas. But it all came out of C2.

Totally agreed--everything came from Cover 2 (Tampa 2--and not 2 Invert). Some teams refer to quarters as Read 2, Palms, 2 Sink, Blue (kinda sounds like two, but not quite), etc. My point is that Jimmy's system really took off and became incredibly dominant when they started playing quarters like we know it today. Tampa 2 and Quarters are distant cousins at this point.

Tampa 2 has nothing to do with JJ or our defense. I think you mean Squat Cover 2? In which case yes, everything came from that and branched off to totally different things.

Again, terminology issues. Squat 2 and Tampa 2 are nearly the exact same thing. Tampa 2 is the popular term used today.

Except that's not actually true at all. Squat Halves and Tampa 2 are different coverages.

Squat 2, aka old school cover2, has 5 underneath zone players and 2 deep zone players. Tampa 2 has 4 underneath zone players and three deep zone players.

Stop digging the hole deeper. You're wrong. The #3 dropper is the only difference, if any. He's not a true deep 1/3. He runs with a vertical by 3 or takes a deeper than normal drop if no vertical.

 

[FullyERicht]

Totally agreed--everything came from Cover 2 (Tampa 2--and not 2 Invert). Some teams refer to quarters as Read 2, Palms, 2 Sink, Blue (kinda sounds like two, but not quite), etc. My point is that Jimmy's system really took off and became incredibly dominant when they started playing quarters like we know it today. Tampa 2 and Quarters are distant cousins at this point.

Tampa 2 has nothing to do with JJ or our defense. I think you mean Squat Cover 2? In which case yes, everything came from that and branched off to totally different things.

Again, terminology issues. Squat 2 and Tampa 2 are nearly the exact same thing. Tampa 2 is the popular term used today.

Except that's not actually true at all. Squat Halves and Tampa 2 are different coverages.

Squat 2, aka old school cover2, has 5 underneath zone players and 2 deep zone players. Tampa 2 has 4 underneath zone players and three deep zone players.

Stop digging the hole deeper. You're wrong. The [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3]#3 [/URL] dropper is the only difference, if any. He's not a true deep 1/3. He runs with a vertical by 3 or takes a deeper than normal drop if no vertical.

LOL completely wrong. The safety play, the play of the OLBs, are different as well as the Middle dropper.

Tampa 2:

Safeties drop further outside the hash. OLBs melt with the QB. Corners as a result are better protected in the dead area and can ride slants. MLB stays on top of the inside seam routes, and is a pass first player shuffling at the snap.

Squat 2:

Safeties stay on the hash (college). Corner jams/funnels and then drops under the corner route. OLBs don't melt with the QB. The middle hook player plays the run first and then can either spot drop in his hook zone, or carry #3 to the safety.

Miami never played Tampa 2, and it is extremely naive to think they are the same thing. To the uninitiated it may not seem much different, but in many small ways it adds up to be quite different.

 

[fresssh]

Yal know ur ****. All i know is i want a fast agressive 4-3 press man coverage. Il be a happy man next season if that happens. What do you guys think Richt will want to run? Thought he said 4-3 but then told Shaqs dad that he doesnt know yet.

 

[WestEndZone]

Tampa 2 has nothing to do with JJ or our defense. I think you mean Squat Cover 2? In which case yes, everything came from that and branched off to totally different things.

Again, terminology issues. Squat 2 and Tampa 2 are nearly the exact same thing. Tampa 2 is the popular term used today.

Except that's not actually true at all. Squat Halves and Tampa 2 are different coverages.

Squat 2, aka old school cover2, has 5 underneath zone players and 2 deep zone players. Tampa 2 has 4 underneath zone players and three deep zone players.

Stop digging the hole deeper. You're wrong. The [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3]#3 [/URL] dropper is the only difference, if any. He's not a true deep 1/3. He runs with a vertical by 3 or takes a deeper than normal drop if no vertical.

LOL completely wrong. The safety play, the play of the OLBs, are different as well as the Middle dropper.

Tampa 2:

Safeties drop further outside the hash. OLBs melt with the QB. Corners as a result are better protected in the dead area and can ride slants. MLB stays on top of the inside seam routes, and is a pass first player shuffling at the snap.

Squat 2:

Safeties stay on the hash (college). Corner jams/funnels and then drops under the corner route. OLBs don't melt with the QB. The middle hook player plays the run first and then can either spot drop in his hook zone, or carry #3 to the safety.

Miami never played Tampa 2, and it is extremely naive to think they are the same thing. To the uninitiated it may not seem much different, but in many small ways it adds up to be quite different.

Looks **** similar to me. You're talking about a variation of the same coverage. I used that term because people are familiar with it. Concepts get recycled. It's the same ****.

Also. Stick with your argument. Tell me how it's a three deep/four underneath coverage.

 

[FullyERicht]

Again, terminology issues. Squat 2 and Tampa 2 are nearly the exact same thing. Tampa 2 is the popular term used today.

Except that's not actually true at all. Squat Halves and Tampa 2 are different coverages.

Squat 2, aka old school cover2, has 5 underneath zone players and 2 deep zone players. Tampa 2 has 4 underneath zone players and three deep zone players.

Stop digging the hole deeper. You're wrong. The [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3]#3 [/URL] dropper is the only difference, if any. He's not a true deep 1/3. He runs with a vertical by 3 or takes a deeper than normal drop if no vertical.

LOL completely wrong. The safety play, the play of the OLBs, are different as well as the Middle dropper.

Tampa 2:

Safeties drop further outside the hash. OLBs melt with the QB. Corners as a result are better protected in the dead area and can ride slants. MLB stays on top of the inside seam routes, and is a pass first player shuffling at the snap.

Squat 2:

Safeties stay on the hash (college). Corner jams/funnels and then drops under the corner route. OLBs don't melt with the QB. The middle hook player plays the run first and then can either spot drop in his hook zone, or carry #3 to the safety.

Miami never played Tampa 2, and it is extremely naive to think they are the same thing. To the uninitiated it may not seem much different, but in many small ways it adds up to be quite different.

Looks **** similar to me. You're talking about a variation of the same coverage. I used that term because people are familiar with it. Concepts get recycled. It's the same ****.

Also. Stick with your argument. Tell me how it's a three deep/four underneath coverage.

The Mike is not responsible for the underneath hook zone. His responsibility is the middle hole between the two Safeties, who are responsible for their side of the field. Three deep. That leaves you with two flat players, and two hook/curl players. 4 underneath.

See the math??