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Should be a Fun Thread for the Blue Chip Ratio Civil War Argument

WeBallinBoyz

WeBallinBoyz

Whisper "It Just Means More" Again Daddy
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Merely dropping this rankings (per 247) that highlights a majority of our players (or former players) that were considered blue chippers and what their rankings were coming out of high school. # indicates their national rank. Putting this here instead of recruiting because I think the main board needs to see it with their own eyes.

2018 Class
- Lorenzo Lingard (#25, 5-star)
- Brevin Jordan (#33, 4-star)
- Nesta Jade Silvera (#54, 4-star)
- Mark Pope (#67, 4-star)
- Jarren Williams (#77, 4-star)
- Al Blades Jr. (#97, 4-star)
- DJ Scaife (#149, 4-star)
- Brian Hightower (#154, 4-star)
- Cam’ron Harris (#173, 4-star)
- Gurvan Hall (#184, 4-star)
- Gilbert Frierson (#200, 4-star)
- Will Mallory (#211, 4-star)
- Cleveland Reed (#259, 4-star)
- Marquez Ezzard (#345, 4-star)
- DJ Ivey (#353, 4-star)

2019 Class
- Jeremiah Payton (#56, 4-star)
- Christian Williams (#160, 4-star)
- Keontra Smith (#188, 4-star)
- Avery Huff (#207, 4-star)
- Jahfari Harvey (#210, 4-star)
- Jason Blissett (#297, 4-star)
- Te’Cory Couch (#340, 4-star)

2020 Class
- Avantae Williams (#45, 4-star)
- Chantz Williams (#85, 4-star)
- Jaylen Knighton (#106, 4-star)
- Don Chaney (#116, 4-star)
- Jalen Rivers (#128, 4-star)
- Michael Redding (#179, 4-star)
- Tyler Van Dyke (#222, 4-star)
- Jalen Harrell (#233, 4-star)
- Isaiah Dunson (#325, 4-star)
- Elijah Roberts (#358, 4-star)

2021 Class
- Leonard Taylor (#11, 5-star)
- James Williams (#15, 5-star)
- Jake Garcia (#48, 4-star)
- Romello Brinson (#144, 4-star)
- Jacolby George (#175, 4-star)
- Laurence Seymore (#185, 4-star)
- Elijah Arroyo (#216, 4-star)
- Breshard Smith (#220, 4-star)
- Cody Brown (#233, 4-star)
- Jabari Ishmael (#243, 4-star)
- Thad Franklin (#247, 4-star)
- Chase Smith (#294, 4-star)
- Kamren Kitchens (#332, 4-star)
- Michael McLaughlin (#341, 4-star)

So here’s a couple points I want to make, and I don’t really think there’s a argument to it but hey, it’s CIS.

1. This might be one of the worst collective blue-chip ratios in college football history. There are an absurd number of busts, and of the handful of decent players listed above, some are now no longer with the program. 2019 and 2020, what’s supposed to be the foundation of your team…wooooof.

2. A fair number of these busts, or players not playing up to their potential, are Florida guys. And yet, we know Florida dominates the NFL. What does that show us? We’re recruiting the wrong ones, or we’re settling on 2nd and 3rd tied guys that are propped up by stars and don’t get developed in college.

For those that want to scream blue chip ratio and it’s all Mario’s fault, there’s your blue chip ratio. Look at the players, not the stars.

The coaches suck and are to blame for a majority of this season, but the writing is literally right there on the wall…

The players on this roster stink.
 
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Damiencane86 said:
The amount of misses in both the 2018 & 2019 classes have been crippling for us
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at this point, im inclined to believe its the coaches (past and present). we haven't developed kids in a LONG time. we can all count on our hands how many kids they actually developed going back to the Coker days. guys came in here as FR and never improved. you saw their peak as FR and regressed each year after that (**** look at the same FR that excelled last year now sophomores sucking it up now).
 
hoops156 said:
we still out recruit MSU, Arky, OM and not even close. only time OM was getting as good classes was when Freeze was there.
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Yea I think with those schools is when we can dig down and say maybe our guys busted at a high rate and we don't really have the roster we think we do based on ratings. Wouldn't be shocked if Arky and Ole Miss have better guys than Miami when you eval the tape etc.
 
hoops156 said:
at this point, im inclined to believe its the coaches (past and present). we haven't developed kids in a LONG time. we can all count on our hands how many kids they actually developed going back to the Coker days. guys came in here as FR and never improved. you saw their peak as FR and regressed each year after that (**** look at the same FR that excelled last year now sophomores sucking it up now).
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There’s so many problems but development is a big one too, and that’s where even I get upset at the coaches because of the amount of money we’re throwing around.

We fell for the Addae and Gattis hype. Ok, big strike.

My only hope is that because this roster stinks, that they’ve hit a ceiling and we just need Mario’s guys and better evaluators of talent. However, the clock is ticking and Mario has to know that in order to attract recruits, he needs an exciting product on the field. Hence, my hope that he goes outside his conventional box in regards to the next OC hire.
 
Glow said:
Yea I think with those schools is when we can dig down and say maybe our guys busted at a high rate and we don't really have the roster we think we do based on ratings. Wouldn't be shocked if Arky and Ole Miss have better guys than Miami when you eval the tape etc.
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but that also falls on the coaches (past and present not just this staff). no coach here came in and developed kids. they peaked as freshmen and that was that.
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
Merely dropping this rankings (per 247) that highlights a majority of our players (or former players) that were considered blue chippers and what their rankings were coming out of high school. # indicates their national rank. Putting this here instead of recruiting because I think the main board needs to see it with their own eyes.

2018 Class
- Lorenzo Lingard (#25, 5-star)
- Brevin Jordan (#33, 4-star)
- Nesta Jade Silvera (#54, 4-star)
- Mark Pope (#67, 4-star)
- Jarren Williams (#77, 4-star)
- Al Blades Jr. (#97, 4-star)
- DJ Scaife (#149, 4-star)
- Brian Hightower (#154, 4-star)
- Cam’ron Harris (#173, 4-star)
- Gurvan Hall (#184, 4-star)
- Gilbert Frierson (#200, 4-star)
- Will Mallory (#211, 4-star)
- Cleveland Reed (#259, 4-star)
- Marquez Ezzard (#345, 4-star)
- DJ Ivey (#353, 4-star)

2019 Class
- Jeremiah Payton (#56, 4-star)
- Christian Williams (#160, 4-star)
- Keontra Smith (#188, 4-star)
- Avery Huff (#207, 4-star)
- Jahfari Harvey (#210, 4-star)
- Jason Blissett (#297, 4-star)
- Te’Cory Couch (#340, 4-star)

2020 Class
- Avantae Williams (#45, 4-star)
- Chantz Williams (#85, 4-star)
- Jaylen Knighton (#106, 4-star)
- Don Chaney (#116, 4-star)
- Jalen Rivers (#128, 4-star)
- Michael Redding (#179, 4-star)
- Tyler Van Dyke (#222, 4-star)
- Jalen Harrell (#233, 4-star)
- Isaiah Dunson (#325, 4-star)
- Elijah Roberts (#358, 4-star)

2021 Class
- Leonard Taylor (#11, 5-star)
- James Williams (#15, 5-star)
- Jake Garcia (#48, 4-star)
- Romello Brinson (#144, 4-star)
- Jacolby George (#175, 4-star)
- Laurence Seymore (#185, 4-star)
- Elijah Arroyo (#216, 4-star)
- Breshard Smith (#220, 4-star)
- Cody Brown (#233, 4-star)
- Jabari Ishmael (#243, 4-star)
- Thad Franklin (#247, 4-star)
- Chase Smith (#294, 4-star)
- Kamren Kitchens (#332, 4-star)
- Michael McLaughlin (#341, 4-star)

So here’s a couple points I want to make, and I don’t really think there’s a argument to it but hey, it’s CIS.

1. This might be one of the worst collective blue-chip ratios in college football history. There are an absurd number of busts, and of the handful of decent players listed above, some are now no longer with the program. 2019 and 2020, what’s supposed to be the foundation of your team…wooooof.

2. A fair number of these busts, or players not playing up to their potential, are Florida guys. And yet, we know Florida dominates the NFL. What does that show us? We’re recruiting the wrong ones, or we’re settling on 2nd and 3rd tied guys that are propped up by stars and don’t get developed in college.

For those that want to scream blue chip ratio and it’s all Mario’s fault, there’s your blue chip ratio. Look at the players, not the stars.

The coaches suck and are to blame for a majority of this season, but the writing is literally right there on the wall…

The players on this roster stink.
Click to expand...
On the offense...it comes down to playcalling and the talent on offensive line. Prime Michael Vick and Vince Young would have looked terrible back there, Prime Adrian Peterson or Frank Gore would have been stuffed, and Prime Larry Fitzgerald would have be bored. Because there would be no holes for the running back, no time for the quarterback to throw, and obviously no throws to be made to the wide receivers.

So how good or bad are our wide receivers and running backs? Who knows. Because a bad offensive line and suboptimal playcalling negate them. I do know this...offensive line has the lowest blue chip talent of any position on offense:

OFFENSIVE LINE
1666538614623.png


RUNNING BACK
1666538670281.png


TIGHT END
1666538698453.png


WIDE RECEIVER
1666538725059.png
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
There’s so many problems but development is a big one too, and that’s where even I get upset at the coaches because of the amount of money we’re throwing around.

We fell for the Addae and Gattis hype. Ok, big strike.

My only hope is that because this roster stinks, that they’ve hit a ceiling and we just need Mario’s guys and better evaluators of talent. However, the clock is ticking and Mario has to know that in order to attract recruits, he needs an exciting product on the field. Hence, my hope that he goes outside his conventional box in regards to the next OC hire.
Click to expand...
fwiw, im not only blaming this staff. they haven't been w their class long enough to see it all. I also dont think the sophomores (True sophomores) have been w Manny long enough for even him to stunt their development (0 the three amigos etc have all been here 1 season before we kicked off in august none are covid sophomores). this is a issue w all our failed staffs
 
GojiraCane said:
On the offense...it comes down to playcalling and the talent on offensive line. Prime Michael Vick and Vince Young would have looked terrible back there, Prime Adrian Peterson or Frank Gore would have been stuffed, and Prime Larry Fitzgerald would have be bored. Because there would be no holes for the running back, no time for the quarterback to throw, and obviously no throws to be made to the wide receivers.

So how good or bad are our wide receivers and running backs? Who knows. Because a bad offensive line and suboptimal playcalling negate them. I do know this...offensive line and linebacker have the lowest blue chip talent of any position on offense:

OFFENSIVE LINE
View attachment 212094

RUNNING BACK
View attachment 212095

TIGHT END
View attachment 212096

WIDE RECEIVER
View attachment 212097
Click to expand...
Very good point
 
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hoops156 said:
fwiw, im not only blaming this staff. they haven't been w their class long enough to see it all. I also dont think the sophomores (True sophomores) have been w Manny long enough for even him to stunt their development (0 the three amigos etc have all been here 1 season before we kicked off in august none are covid sophomores). this is a issue w all our failed staffs
Click to expand...
Stunting development is an interesting point.

One criticism of Manny is that he favored veterans, even if younger players were more talented. It's something that apparently many coaches do. But think about this - the wide receivers get a lot of criticism, and people said that Mike Harley and Charleston Rambo were the offense last year. But how much of that short-term, 2021 success came at the expense of the development of all of the young wide receivers that now have to start this year? Likewise with Arenas Williams and Leonard Taylor...Williams was the highest rated safety in the 2020 class but only played in 4 games last year. And Leonard Taylor did not start to see action until midseason last year.

It's not 1997, but you could make the case that Mario needs to take his lumps now and play the best players on the roster, period. Start Skinner and see what you have. Give your two young edge rushers significant time and experience. Keep playing Colby Young and whichever freshman or sophomore is doing the best work. Yeah, we'll probably lose all of our games but we're going to likely go 1-6 the rest of the way anyway. But they'll gain seasoning an experience. Butch made a nice jump from 1997 to 1998, and then a quantum leap to 1999 where he had a very young but seasoned roster.
 
GojiraCane said:
Stunting development is an interesting point.

One criticism of Manny is that he favored veterans, even if younger players were more talented. It's something that apparently many coaches do. But think about this - the wide receivers get a lot of criticism, and people said that Mike Harley and Charleston Rambo were the offense last year. But how much of that short-term, 2021 success came at the expense of the development of all of the young wide receivers that now have to start this year? Likewise with Arenas Williams and Leonard Taylor...Williams was the highest rated safety in the 2020 class but only played in 4 games last year. And Leonard Taylor did not start to see action until midseason last year.

It's not 1997, but you could make the case that Mario needs to take his lumps now and play the best players on the roster, period. Start Skinner and see what you have. Give your two young edge rushers significant time and experience. Keep playing Colby Young and whichever freshman or sophomore is doing the best work. Yeah, we'll probably lose all of our games but we're going to likely go 1-6 the rest of the way anyway. But they'll gain seasoning an experience. Butch made a nice jump from 1997 to 1998, and then a quantum leap to 1999 where he had a very young but seasoned roster.
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I would agree but isnt that what Mario is doing now regarding veterans? we still roll out the same dudes who make mistakes weekly. we never really used arroyo when healthy in the pass game. we took a month plus to get young ut there when no one else did anything. we still rolled out 70 on the line. when the coach has to go w all young guys at any point, its a failure of the season bc its literally saying I give up and have nothing left so maybe the unknown saves my ***. Manny went more towards youth last year once he went 2-4.
 
Nah this thread has me sick to my stomach. I don’t care what anyone says about stars, that list of names is atrocious. Talent evaluation has to be the #1 focus moving forward. Half of those guys never even played here (or where they transferred to).

Edit: Bro I had to circle back… you’re telling me we really only have 3 blue-chippers from 2019? Harvey, Smith, Couch??? 3?!!?!?!?!? Nah man I’m about convinced it’s the roster.
 
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