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Setting the edge???

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moshated305 said:
This and they stunt inside often
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Miami stunts more than a $5 Hooker in Bangkok gets.... well, you know...

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fedupcane said:
Man the whining about holding penalties is the softest thing in the world. Every game, every play, guys get held. Theres no secret effort to not call holding on us.

We don’t set the edge bc if two reasons. 1) Diaz’s defense doesn’t assign gaps on blitzes. Google “manny Diaz fire zone” and you’ll see. And 2) are DEs are coached to get up the field on every play, which takes them out of nearly every edge rush imaginable.
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Yeah you're right, but you literally watch clip after clip of guys getting yanked and many times not allowed to seal the edge because of being held. I get it, yes holding can be called every play, but there's NO WAY The University of Miami should be pretty much dead last in holding penalties....our pass rushers nor defensive scheme merits that drastic type of statistic.
 
We stunt too much. We either ask our 300 pound DT or Clueless LBs to set the edge. Hence all the 5-10 gains from a QB. And our opponents know this.
 
Arehel said:
They often play sub and exchange on the edge on run plays. I think you either play it full time or not at all, or call it very seldom to mess up the zone read.
What this means is End has B Gap and LB spills over the top and has contain, often times you'll see the LB not do it right and look at B gap while end is sliding into the B gap.
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what you said identifies a good part of the problem.

the defense on the perimeter has a lot of the old jimmy johnson 40-Slide concepts. which means the DE's are charged with getting upfield, and squeezing gaps. they are playing for the bounce instead of containment, and it's the LB who has edge responsibility and the CB (or striker or safety) who is in first run support to the playside.

if it works right, it means that the LB should be making the tackle on the edge, meeting the ball carrier with his heels on the line of scrimmage.

in manny's system, if you see a RB bubbling to the edge, and no one touches him until 4 yards past the LOS, then 90% of the time, it's the LB (or the striker) to the play side that screwed the pooch.
 
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RedSquare said:
what you said identifies a good part of the problem.

the defense on the perimeter has a lot of the old jimmy johnson 40-Slide concepts. which means the DE's are charged with getting upfield, and squeezing gaps. they are playing for the bounce instead of containment, and it's the LB who has edge responsibility and the CB (or striker or safety) who is in first run support to the playside.

if it works right, it means that the LB should be making the tackle on the edge, meeting the ball carrier with his heels on the line of scrimmage.

in manny's system, if you see a RB bubbling to the edge, and no one touches him until 4 yards past the LOS, then 90% of the time, it's the LB (or the striker) to the play side that screwed the pooch.
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Bro this is totally inaccurate. There’s cut ups I made on another thread showing we don’t do any of the JJ stuff.

Our DE’s don’t spill, they take on blocks with their outside arm free and continue to get upfield. Exactly the way Chuck Amato and Mickey Andrews taught it in the 90s. There’s a reason nobody on the planet except us runs the FSU style D-line, bc outside of having an outrageous talent advantage it is flawed.

To make matters worse, our LBs don’t have gap assignments. In theory it should “make it easier” but it just means you aren’t accounting for all gaps in any scenario, AND you can’t drill it since the fills are random. Sounds great on paper to the casual fan, but Doesn’t work in practice.

And finally, since We don’t play quarters, hard cover 2, or cover 3 rip Liz, our DBs are basically never asked to be involved in forcing the run.

Other than that, you had it spot on! Smfh
 
The OT blocks down and our DE roche doesn’t step down, he takes on the pulling guard with his INSIDE shoulder....a totally acceptable practice, but not the JJ method at all.
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The DEs getting so far up the field every goddam play leaves titanic sized lanes for a talented RB to waltz through. The presnap alignment of the LBs means even if McCloud forces that block, there is still a hole up the middle, AND the off tackle lane is still big enough bc the DEs are so far up field.

STOP BLAMING PLAYERS FOR AMATEUR COACHING DESIGN.
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And one final note, Bubba comes down to play the run. So to the strong side we have two DBs and a LB to play the run. On the weak side, nearly over the center, we have one LB, who is both asked to fill the A gap and contain.

Its effing amateur hour and it’s why our “great defense” has literally folded like a cheap suit against every single good team we Have played for the last five years.
 
fedupcane said:
Bro this is totally inaccurate. There’s cut ups I made on another thread showing we don’t do any of the JJ stuff.

Our DE’s don’t spill, they take on blocks with their outside arm free and continue to get upfield. Exactly the way Chuck Amato and Mickey Andrews taught it in the 90s. There’s a reason nobody on the planet except us runs the FSU style D-line, bc outside of having an outrageous talent advantage it is flawed.

To make matters worse, our LBs don’t have gap assignments. In theory it should “make it easier” but it just means you aren’t accounting for all gaps in any scenario, AND you can’t drill it since the fills are random. Sounds great on paper to the casual fan, but Doesn’t work in practice.

And finally, since We don’t play quarters, hard cover 2, or cover 3 rip Liz, our DBs are basically never asked to be involved in forcing the run.

Other than that, you had it spot on! Smfh
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dude. WTF are you talking about??

that's not what i said. i absolutely can see we are outside arm free, which is why i said they play the squeeze at 5-7. the reason those DE are that deep is for the same reason they were at that depth in the 40-Slide.

and who do you think has the C gap in that if you're playing for the bounce, and the DE is at SQ5-7???

SMFH that this looks like anything mantits was preaching. and the idea that run fits are "random" make no sense since that would imply there is no structure to the defense from a gap integrity standpoint, which, given how stuff plays out, i agree with you it looks that way most of the time.

and to say the DB's have no run technique to play is interesting to say the least.

we ran a lot of this defense in college and although mantits did visit campus once or twice during my career because he was friends with our head coach, i don't ever remember FSU doing a lot stuff our guys were doing.

but hey, carry on ... :rolleyes:

listen, i could be wrong ... (for the 50th time today), ...but i don't think so
 
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fedupcane said:
And one final note, Bubba comes down to play the run. So to the strong side we have two DBs and a LB to play the run. On the weak side, nearly over the center, we have one LB, who is both asked to fill the A gap and contain.

Its effing amateur hour and it’s why our “great defense” has literally folded like a cheap suit against every single good team we Have played for the last five years.
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The last time Miami beat a highly ranked team in a big game was va Notre Dame.

What is the biggest difference now vs then?

 
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RedSquare said:
dude. WTF are you talking about??

that's not what i said. i absolutely can see we are outside arm free, which is why i said they play the squeeze at 5-7. the reason those DE are that deep is for the same reason they were at that depth in the 40-Slide.

and who do you think has the C gap in that if you're playing for the bounce, and the DE is at SQ5-7???

SMFH that this looks like anything mantits was preaching. and the idea that run fits are "random" make no sense since that would imply there is no structure to the defense from a gap integrity standpoint, which, given how stuff plays out, i agree with you it looks that way most of the time.

and to say the DB's have no run technique to play is interesting to say the least.

we ran a lot of this defense in college and although mantits did visit campus once or twice during my career because he was friends with our head coach, i don't ever remember FSU doing a lot stuff our guys were doing.

but hey, carry on ... :rolleyes:

listen, i could be wrong ... (for the 50th time today), ...but i don't think so
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The 40 slide teaches block down step down. In JJs defense in the above play, Roche would have followed the OT tight to the LOS, and then taken on the pulling guard with his OUTSIDE shoulder.

Its literally the exact opposite of what we do here now.

And you’ve proven my point: if the DE is coached to get up the field that far, and there is no DB to force to outside of him, how exactly can you ask an A gap responsible LB to make that play? YOU CANT. It’s bad design.
 
PIPO said:
The last time Miami beat a highly ranked team in a big game was va Notre Dame.

What is the biggest difference now vs then?

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In five years, we played one massively overrated (as usual) three loss Norte Dame team in our house and got a ton of turnovers and killed them.

Every SINGLE other big game we get boat raced. Every single big game Diaz ever coached against a good offensive unit he has gotten destroyed, dating back to his days at Texas and MSU. When you cite one game amongst a pile of others, that’s called the outlier.
 
fedupcane said:
Bro this is totally inaccurate. There’s cut ups I made on another thread showing we don’t do any of the JJ stuff.

Our DE’s don’t spill, they take on blocks with their outside arm free and continue to get upfield. Exactly the way Chuck Amato and Mickey Andrews taught it in the 90s. There’s a reason nobody on the planet except us runs the FSU style D-line, bc outside of having an outrageous talent advantage it is flawed.

To make matters worse, our LBs don’t have gap assignments. In theory it should “make it easier” but it just means you aren’t accounting for all gaps in any scenario, AND you can’t drill it since the fills are random. Sounds great on paper to the casual fan, but Doesn’t work in practice.

And finally, since We don’t play quarters, hard cover 2, or cover 3 rip Liz, our DBs are basically never asked to be involved in forcing the run.

Other than that, you had it spot on! Smfh
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You're wording is a little off. If they're the Spilling or responsible for contain, same thing, then they're outside arm is free. So it's one or the other.

I don't think, you're wrong I just think different play call happens. But often time a Safety isn't necessarily responsible for run, but he's asked to essentially be like a running back in the run game find a hole and plug it one you identify run and clean up the mess that we made in front of you, hence the term Manny calls his safety as eraser.

As you can see, it's clear its sub and exchange. I actually hate this alignment, but it is what it is. We don't do JJ stuff, no one does anymore, he's the reason why they went away from two back haha
 

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Arehel said:
You're wording is a little off. If they're the Spilling or responsible for contain, same thing, then they're outside arm is free. So it's one or the other.

I don't think, you're wrong I just think different play call happens. But often time a Safety isn't necessarily responsible for run, but he's asked to essentially be like a running back in the run game find a hole and plug it one you identify run and clean up the mess that we made in front of you, hence the term Manny calls his safety as eraser.

As you can see, it's clear its sub and exchange. I actually hate this alignment, but it is what it is. We don't do JJ stuff, no one does anymore, he's the reason why they went away from two back haha
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Jesus Christ spilling is called wrong arming. It is the EXACT opposite of containing. It was called this bc prior to it being used, nobody every allow their outside arm to be blocked, and therefore you were using the “wrong arm” if you did. JJ turned the world upside down when he specifically used this concept with faster players running sideline to sideline. It means you take the block with your outside arm, causing the play to SPILL outside. I mean come man you are completely clueless here.
 
If your defense calls for a safety to just “run around like a running back and clean up the mess” then you have no defense. You sound like an absolute imbecile on this bro.
 
fedupcane said:
Jesus Christ spilling is called wrong arming. It is the EXACT opposite of containing. It was called this bc prior to it being used, nobody every allow their outside arm to be blocked, and therefore you were using the “wrong arm” if you did. JJ turned the world upside down when he specifically used this concept with faster players running sideline to sideline. It means you take the block with your outside arm, causing the play to SPILL outside. I mean come man you are completely clueless here.
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Oh whoops, had a brain fart you're right.
Don't know what I was thinking
I'm usually on the ball with that, my bad. Haha
 
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