RPO vs FSU

[scrantoncane]

Yes, another RPO threat and another FSU thread. This post is a little long and technical, but I wanted to start this one to expand on some stuff I said here: [video]https://www.canesinsight.com/thread/20/119300/3[/video]

In that thread, I said I didn't like the idea of running the RPO against FSU:

A little more on RPO against FSU...

Kosi won't really have seen D1 game speed yet. FSU dline will be in our backfield all day, if last year is any indication.

The decision to run or pass needs to be made in an instant. I don't trust the pre-snap read of a true freshman in this kind of scenario. I also don't trust the exchange between the QB and RB (which could lead to turnovers).

It'll be absolutely key to avoid sacks, to keep us out of 2nd/3rd and long situations. It's going to be loud in there, and Kosi will have had one month to learn the playbook, let alone the signals, audibles, and all that other isht you need to have mastered to play in front of 80,000 on the road.

In general, I'm in the camp that says, if you're gonna play a FR QB, then treat him like a SR and open up the playbook; or else play someone else. But this is a game where we DO need to go into a shell. Walton should have 30 carries, Kosi should throw less than 18-20 times. Move the chains, keep their defense on the field, avoid mistakes, and hope we finally catch a break.


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The bolded part reminded me of an article I read a while back, and bookmarked intending to discuss it here. The whole article can be found here: Texas QB Shane Buechele admits mistake on 3rd-down fumble vs. WVU - Burnt Orange Nation

But this clip is what I am talking about:

[TWEET]797530448163377152[/TWEET]

I've seen other angles of this play, but don't have them saved.

The author does a pretty good job of breaking down clip. What you see is the Texas QB correctly identifying that both the LB (the defender he is reading for the RPO) moves downhill reading the run, and the safety comes up showing blitz. So he correctly decides to pass. The article says the WR failed to get separation, leading to a sack-fumble. (The throw should have been made anyways from what I can see, but that's not the point.)

This play highlights my concern with Kosi running RPO against FSU. Why specifically against FSU? Because the keys to defending the RPO are (i) pre-snap confusion and (ii) post-snap DL movement.

The pre-snap confusion concerns me because of the watered-down defensive looks Kosi has likely seen in HS, and because of the noise & atmosphere of Doak. Having had one month of practice, he will still be learning the basics of the offense...forget trying to figure out the tendancies of FSU's defense.

As for post-snap DL movement - FSU is very strong on the DL. Their tackles are athletic enough to line up one place, but then move the gap. So if, for example, the QB see the OLB show a blitz off the end, he should presumably hand it off for an inside run, but if the FSU tackles are always stunting, which they are athletic enough to do, then the play gets blown up.

Also, the FSU defensive backfield has 2 all-American caliber players. If the WR route is a slant or a hitch to the side of the field where the blitz is coming, but a DB makes a play and locks it down...BOOM. Down goes Frazier.

These things can and will cause a QB to hesitate, esp a FR in a loud, hostile environment. And you can see the result that happened above - the QB getting his head taken off. I also worry about hesitation and the QB/RB exchange, especially with somewhat limited practice reps. Those guys have to be on the same page, or a fumble is going to happen.

This is why I think that even if RPO is Richt's go-to offense, it needs to be bagged for this game because of the athleticism of FSU's defense. Like I said in the other thread, Walton should get 30+ carries, Kosi should throw 18-20 times max, keep their D on the field, control field position, rely on our defense and get some luck to try to sneak out of there with a win.

 

[kryptonite]

I agree that we should lean on Walton no matter who the QB is, but if we look one dimensional the OL will get destroyed. I don't know if RPO is the answer, but we need to show a legit passing game or Walton's going to spend a lot of time sitting in the backfield pulling turf out of his facemask.

And I'm morally opposed to sneaking. I want to see heads held high and hear "hit, stick, bust dck" as the team walks out with a win.

 

[scrantoncane]

I agree that we should lean on Walton no matter who the QB is, but if we look one dimensional the OL will get destroyed. I don't know if RPO is the answer, but we need to show a legit passing game or Walton's going to spend a lot of time sitting in the backfield pulling turf out of his facemask.

I expect a lot of max protect passes. Simple combination routes to keep them honest.

We have been poor at attacking the middle of the field for years. No reason to expect that to change just yet. Our passing game should be very limited for this game.

 

[brock]

If you play scared then you won't beat fsu period

 

[kryptonite]

I agree that we should lean on Walton no matter who the QB is, but if we look one dimensional the OL will get destroyed. I don't know if RPO is the answer, but we need to show a legit passing game or Walton's going to spend a lot of time sitting in the backfield pulling turf out of his facemask.

I expect a lot of max protect passes. Simple combination routes to keep them honest.

We have been poor at attacking the middle of the field for years. No reason to expect that to change just yet. Our passing game should be very limited for this game.

I think we'll need to see what both teams do in the first few weeks to get a better idea of what will work. The last thing I want is to turn this into another Kaaya thread but...I remember watching his first game and thinking "we're getting stomped, you might as well let the kid throw. Let's at least go down swinging." Which is to say, sometimes you let the kid do his thing and hope for the best as opposed to losing scared. But again, we don't know who the QB will be let alone his strengths/weaknesses.

 

[Fightinibis]

If you played scared then you want beat fsu period

Que?

Scared and stupid are different things.

You ID what have at QB before such a game and play to maximize his strengths and minimize mistakes where you can...nothing scared about unless you want your newbie beanpole QB broken in half and taken to the woodshed...all great stuff for his confidence moving forward.

Please stop confusing predictable and weak second half play calling with intelligent game planning.

UM

 

[brock]

If you played scared then you want beat fsu period

Que?

Scared and stupid are different things.

You ID what have at QB before such a game and play to maximize his strengths and minimize mistakes where you can...nothing scared about unless you want your newbie beanpole QB broken in half and taken to the woodshed...all great stuff for his confidence moving forward.

Please stop confusing predictable and weak second half play calling with intelligent game planning.

UM

Other than the game against nc state who had a top 5 rushing defense in the country mark walton hasn't shown that he can carry Miami to victories against many good teams. 30 rushing attempts for walton against fsu is just ridiculous tbh and I'm a walton fan. Even duke wouldn't be able to do it... we have had much more success in the air vs fsu then on the ground over the last few years. Let him throw **** when kaaya threw the ball as a freshman he did well too. The formula to beat fsu is to have a mobile qb who will run, and a good passer. Perry's game fits perfectly for that

 

[davidb1]

All I see is the right guard missing his block. He make he block, the qb has time.

 

[Cane Fan 4 Life]

Whoever the QB is for Miami, FSWho will definitely stack the box and force us to throw. Max protect or spread them out, then let Walton run it down their throats.

 

[brock]

My whole theory is this, if you start a true freshman at qb, give him the full playbook to work with during the game or don't let him play at all...

 

[MIATL]

All I see is the right guard missing his block. He make he block, the qb has time.

THIS.

 

[FIUMCane]

We went up the middle plenty in 2014 and nothing. This game is coming down to who makes less mistakes and special teams. The defense needs to be fresh come second half, especially the 4th quarter.

It's going to be a boring game, especially on offense for us. But we just need to stay patient and strong on defense. Frenchie needs to die or wish he was dead by the end of the game.

 

[gcane44]

I definitely don't envision Perry being the lone QB during the FSU game. If he has proven to be worthy to get PT that early in the season, it will be in a rotation (or packages) with Rosier or Shirreffs (prob Rosier)

 

[Oicu812]

NOBODY, expects us to go to trashy and beat the holes. Therefore, we're a team playing THAT game with nothing to lose. Much like the roster full of nobody on our Marlins team when we went to new York and spanked that Yankee a$$!! We simply need to go up there and play ball!! Not conservative ball, or reckless ball, good clean solid ball!! Our playmakers will show up!!,.. Our D will be ready to feast!!..Walton knows what this seasons game film will mean for his future!!

The past 3 yrs games against those homers up there prove to us, we have a real chance to do something special there!
Playing scared will not get us what we want,.. Although taking all the collars and chains off of our savage Dogs, will do exactly what we want!!
This games gonna be a bit different this year,.. Just wait n see!!!

 

[scrantoncane]

I agree that we should lean on Walton no matter who the QB is, but if we look one dimensional the OL will get destroyed. I don't know if RPO is the answer, but we need to show a legit passing game or Walton's going to spend a lot of time sitting in the backfield pulling turf out of his facemask.

I expect a lot of max protect passes. Simple combination routes to keep them honest.

We have been poor at attacking the middle of the field for years. No reason to expect that to change just yet. Our passing game should be very limited for this game.

I think we'll need to see what both teams do in the first few weeks to get a better idea of what will work. The last thing I want is to turn this into another Kaaya thread but...I remember watching his first game and thinking "we're getting stomped, you might as well let the kid throw. Let's at least go down swinging." Which is to say, sometimes you let the kid do his thing and hope for the best as opposed to losing scared. But again, we don't know who the QB will be let alone his strengths/weaknesses.

I remember thinking that same thing. Like I said above, I say let the FR open it up if you're going to play them.

But that Al Golden-led team didn't have the defense we have now. Even if we were to go down 10-0, 14-0, I think we have to lean on the defense to make plays and get us field position, rather than let it rip.

 

[scrantoncane]

All I see is the right guard missing his block. He make he block, the qb has time.

He definitely missed it, but the O-linemen in the RPO are always blocking with their head down like it's a run. It looks like the guard thought it was a run.

 

[FG305]

I agree that we should lean on Walton no matter who the QB is, but if we look one dimensional the OL will get destroyed. I don't know if RPO is the answer, but we need to show a legit passing game or Walton's going to spend a lot of time sitting in the backfield pulling turf out of his facemask.

And I'm morally opposed to sneaking. I want to see heads held high and hear "hit, stick, bust dck" as the team walks out with a win.

Definitely don't want Derwin James constantly in the box if we're too one dimensional....

 

[The Franchise]

I agree that we should lean on Walton no matter who the QB is, but if we look one dimensional the OL will get destroyed. I don't know if RPO is the answer, but we need to show a legit passing game or Walton's going to spend a lot of time sitting in the backfield pulling turf out of his facemask.

I expect a lot of max protect passes. Simple combination routes to keep them honest.

We have been poor at attacking the middle of the field for years. No reason to expect that to change just yet. Our passing game should be very limited for this game.

Limited throw game, and they wipe their asses with our faces. Let them play downhill on you and you're done. UM needs to get down to doing what it can do best with the guys we have the most access to and quit trying to be Boner Hayes Ohio Taint circa 1975.

 

[davidb1]

All I see is the right guard missing his block. He make he block, the qb has time.

He definitely missed it, but the O-linemen in the RPO are always blocking with their head down like it's a run. It looks like the guard thought it was a run.

Ok, but you don't think the linemen would see a guy that right in front on him? Even if it was a run?

 

[Ironmanfootball]

All I see is the right guard missing his block. He make he block, the qb has time.

He definitely missed it, but the O-linemen in the RPO are always blocking with their head down like it's a run. It looks like the guard thought it was a run.

The guard blocked no one and the tackle didn't gap hinge. Unless it's stick/draw... why is the OT pass setting and kick sliding like that? Always protect inside out. Same thing happened on the Kaaya tooth fairy play.