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Recruiting lows?

Gooner#44 said:
You ever see the classes Randy Shannon signed??? He routinely signed Top 10 classes, including #1 OVERALL in 2008. So let's not beat our chest too much about Manny's #16 and #11 classes at Miami.

Look man that all sounds great what you typed about those 2 classes (not really, sounded like Manny's Mom typed it up) BUT so did the 2012, 2013, 2014, 2017, 2018 classes, they were all Top 15 (off the top of my head), it's Miami, it's not hard, the talent surrounds you.

So if you wanna suck Manny's dik for #11 and #16, swallow away my man, I want more (no homo), and to get more he has to win the ACCC at least once in a while and 10plus games year in and year out. He does that and he can keep the SEC/Ohio St/Clemson types away from the players in our area that are NC winning caliber. He doesn't we keep getting housed by Top 25 teams year in and year out.
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I'm sick and tired of hearing about this magical 2008 recruiting class.

Rivals had that class ranked at #5. People forget that we had THIRTY-THREE signees and EIGHT of them were 2-stars. And 5 of those 8 2-stars picked Miami between Thanksgiving Day and National Signing Day.

By contrast, 247 gave all those 2-stars (except for Jake Wieclaw) 3-star ratings, which is a statistical joke.

We had the softest, fluffiest "only #1 in one ranking service" #1 class ever.
 
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RVACane said:
Brown???
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Cody Brown will count towards 2022 ICs, but he is in the Class of 2021 (recruiting-wise) and will enroll in August, just like Jarrid Williams did last year.

He is NOT a transfer, he is a high school graduate who did not enroll at Tennessee and was released from his LOI.
 
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PSU Cane said:
If it’s not public it’s not real. It’s like a girl. If you won’t go out in public with her, then it’s nothing more than a hookup.

People talk about commitments this early being nothing more than placeholders. Silents are worse bc those are placeholders within multiple programs.
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Please STFU on this. If our coaches tell a silent not to announce, that's up to them. Just because people like you don't know about it doesn't make it "not real".

There is no extra magic in a verbal anymore. Silents can change their minds. Verbals can change their minds. Kids who sign Financial Aid Agreements can change their minds. Kids who sign National Letters of Intent can change their minds.

Silents are real. And we have silents. So sit back and enjoy the show.

Unless the NCAA changes the Transfer IC rules, we won't sign 25 high school kids this year.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I'm sick and tired of hearing about this magical 2008 recruiting class.

Rivals had that class ranked at #5. People forget that we had THIRTY-THREE signees and EIGHT of them were 2-stars. And 5 of those 8 2-stars picked Miami between Thanksgiving Day and National Signing Day.

By contrast, 247 gave all those 2-stars (except for Jake Wieclaw) 3-star ratings, which is a statistical joke.

We had the softest, fluffiest "only #1 in one ranking service" #1 class ever.
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We have discussed that at length already in this very thread my non attention paying man. We all agreed it was not overall #1 but did have 3 5 stars and 10 Top 100 players. I would take that any year, no matter the overall ranking.

Thanks for your put in though, it was real valuable chap....
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Cody Brown will count towards 2022 ICs, but he is in the Class of 2021 (recruiting-wise) and will enroll in August, just like Jarrid Williams did last year.

He is NOT a transfer, he is a high school graduate who did not enroll at Tennessee and was released from his LOI.
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Right, hence why I asked what class he counted against the signing #s.
 
Gooner#44 said:
We have discussed that at length already in this very thread my non attention paying man. We all agreed it was not overall #1 but did have 3 5 stars and 10 Top 100 players. I would take that any year, no matter the overall ranking.

Thanks for your put in though, it was real valuable chap....
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Look, I'm going to keep things polite, in spite of your fake politeness.

Nobody has to read 9 pages of posts before responding to a dopey post on Page 1. You're just mad because a bunch of people pointed out the nonsense of bragging on "the #1 class" from 2008. In another post, you bragged about following recruiting "since Curtis Justus", which is early 2000s. Some of us have been following recruiting for much longer, and that's why your comment stood out as so wrong.

And stop acting like there was "discussion". A bunch of people rebutted your comments, and you had to admit the reality of the situation.

Look, I have no personal animus against you. But it's ridiculous for you to keep posting selective stats and questions over and over again. Like your obsession with "Top 50" and constantly asking people how many "Top 50" guys we are going to sign. Or asking about how many 5 stars we will sign. Or asking about what our final class ranking will be.

There's a reason why people slam your posts, and it's not completely due to your toxic personality. It's also because you bring a knife to a gunfight and then get defensive when people overpower your weak posts. Or that you double-down on your incorrect posts, while slathering on the disingenuous passive-aggressive compliments.

In the last 13 years, I have NEVER bragged about our 2008 recruiting class, because I knew how it was constructed, and I knew how misleading it was. Beyond Players 26-33, all of whom were 2-stars, we also loaded up with EIGHT Miami Northwestern guys (and we didn't even offer the BEST of the Miami Northwestern kids that year). Meaning, of the other 17 players we recruited, the only significant win was Arthur Brown.

Regardless, Manny's "Top 10-20" recruiting classes over the past 2 years may well produce more contributors and draftees than our "Holy Grail" class of 2008.

So stop nitpicking the recruiting process and listen to the people who tell you there will be some important movement in May and June.

Chap.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I'm sick and tired of hearing about this magical 2008 recruiting class.

Rivals had that class ranked at #5. People forget that we had THIRTY-THREE signees and EIGHT of them were 2-stars. And 5 of those 8 2-stars picked Miami between Thanksgiving Day and National Signing Day.

By contrast, 247 gave all those 2-stars (except for Jake Wieclaw) 3-star ratings, which is a statistical joke.

We had the softest, fluffiest "only #1 in one ranking service" #1 class ever.
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I half agree, half disagree. It matters because of what the mistakes were.

you’re right we bolstered the class with fluff. But we had 17 kids 4* or better, including 2 5* kids on rivals. Best class we’ve signed in 20 years on paper, irrespective of your points.

the reality is we evaluated poorly. if we evaluated better, it wouldn’t have mattered what we did with 2* fluff fillers.
 
If June passes and we still have 1 commit or if July passes and we have less than 5 commits then I would understand some uncertainty. But right now this is part of the plan Manny put in place. I wouldn't worry or feel like FSU is some bar we need to measure recruiting success with. They are landing guys for sure right now but there's only 2 kids I'd want hands down that's currently in their class with a small possibility of maybe 1 more.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
I half agree, half disagree. It matters because of what the mistakes were.

you’re right we bolstered the class with fluff. But we had 17 kids 4* or better, including 2 5* kids on rivals. Best class we’ve signed in 20 years on paper, irrespective of your points.

the reality is we evaluated poorly. if we evaluated better, it wouldn’t have mattered what we did with 2* fluff fillers.
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All fair points.

However, of those 17 4-stars or higher, 7 of them were from Miami Northwestern (only 1 of the 8 MNW signees was a 3-star). Which is where we have to circle back to evaluations. Has ANY high school (outside of the private schools that recruit, like IMG) ever had 7 4 and 5 star recruits, and has ANY college ever gone 7-for-7 with those blue-chippers? So that's a once-in-a-lifetime anomaly.

And let's go deeper. We had 17 blue-chippers out of 33 in 2008. So that is just over 50% "blue-chip index". And this was before the IC rules kicked in. By contrast, in 2021, Miami had 13 blue-chippers out of 22, and the other 9 were 3-stars (no 2-stars). And in 2020, Miami had 13 blue-chippers out of 21, and the other 8 were 3-stars. Or how about 2018, with 16 blue-chippers out of 23, with 6 3-stars and a 2-star kicker.

Higher blue-chip ratio, and no 2-star reaches (unless we take a kicker) in 3 out of the last 4 years. While it may be hard to compare pre-IC apples to post-IC oranges, the ON-PAPER recruiting of the 2008 class only "exceeds" more recent classes by sheer numbers. And, for the record, I am using the statistics for comparative purposes, not as conclusory proof that one class is "better" than another.

Again, I'm not trashing the 2008 recruiting class, just pointing out that it was NOT a #1 recruiting class if you used the eye test. I could accept a #5 ranking, but I'm tired of the Cane-fan mythbuilding that holds up 2008 as the gold standard.
 
CashMoneyCane said:
It's not real if it's public either. Have you ever heard of a decommitment? It happens pretty frequently.

This comment is entirely retarded, and makes me assume you wear velcro shoes.
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The fact you get so spun up by an opinion that isn’t aligned to yours that you have to take a personal attack shows your true colors. That’s weak my friend. My shoes are doing just fine.

No commitment is a true commitment until pen is applied to paper. Anyone who follows recruiting knows that. But to say the comment has no merit simply because you don’t agree is ridiculous. Theres several reasons to keep it silent, from wanting your 15 minutes for your official announcement to wanting to play the game and still get “love” (or payment) from other schools to visit to avoiding public pressure or backlash for your decision If it’s unpopular. Whatever the reason, keeping it quiet means you aren’t ready for others to know…….and inherently that means you are not quite ready to commit. You are leaving yourself the flexibility to change your mind without public judgement since coaches and schools can’t comment on commits.

Publicly committing is taking that first step to saying this is my school. Your words and actions after that point will show if that commitment is serious or not.
 
da truth said:
While having 1 commit in may can be concerning to some, it’s great that our sole commit is qb. It seems every year we have our class finalized and are scrambling to get a qb. we lucked out last year with sc taking 2 qbs or else we would be without a qb in the class or grabbing a Peyton matcha type (no disrespect to Peyton I like him)

I hope this is the start of a new trend for miami recruiting. Getting the qb committed early and not left with our dic•ks in our hands day of signing day looking for a jag
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QBs routinely commit early and stick so that is a good sign to get your guy early and not be scrambling at the end.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
All fair points.

However, of those 17 4-stars or higher, 7 of them were from Miami Northwestern (only 1 of the 8 MNW signees was a 3-star). Which is where we have to circle back to evaluations. Has ANY high school (outside of the private schools that recruit, like IMG) ever had 7 4 and 5 star recruits, and has ANY college ever gone 7-for-7 with those blue-chippers? So that's a once-in-a-lifetime anomaly.

And let's go deeper. We had 17 blue-chippers out of 33 in 2008. So that is just over 50% "blue-chip index". And this was before the IC rules kicked in. By contrast, in 2021, Miami had 13 blue-chippers out of 22, and the other 9 were 3-stars (no 2-stars). And in 2020, Miami had 13 blue-chippers out of 21, and the other 8 were 3-stars. Or how about 2018, with 16 blue-chippers out of 23, with 6 3-stars and a 2-star kicker.

Higher blue-chip ratio, and no 2-star reaches (unless we take a kicker) in 3 out of the last 4 years. While it may be hard to compare pre-IC apples to post-IC oranges, the ON-PAPER recruiting of the 2008 class only "exceeds" more recent classes by sheer numbers. And, for the record, I am using the statistics for comparative purposes, not as conclusory proof that one class is "better" than another.

Again, I'm not trashing the 2008 recruiting class, just pointing out that it was NOT a #1 recruiting class if you used the eye test. I could accept a #5 ranking, but I'm tired of the Cane-fan mythbuilding that holds up 2008 as the gold standard.
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I haven’t called it a ‘no.1‘ class myself, so not defending the proposition. Rivals calls it the ‘no.5’ class from that season. However, a few comments.

A lot of kids from one school? Yes. Is that good or bad? Depends on evals. If we hit on them, it would sound odd to complain about where they came from. You say it was an anomaly, but so what? Randy didn’t take 7 kids from MNW his other years. Maybe you’re caught up in a Randy narrative rather than what the class actually was and did?

People like to mention we disn’t take lavonte david like it undermines our evals. David went juco. No one took him. He wasn’t takeable coming out of HS. There are plenty of other reasons our evals suck that don’t require this degree of stretch.

The ‘blue chip ratio’ comment is interesting and worth noting, but it doesn’t change the ranking discussion. Everyone had the same rules back then and we weren’t the only program signing big classes. I actually harped on this at the time on these boards because as a roster management matter, I thought it stunk. But we didn’t really get much of a ratings list from the crappy kids. We still signed 17 kids 4* or better. That is the biggest haul of 4* or better kids for this program in 20 years. We evaluated poorly, and they weren’t very good. I actually commented on one of these boards years ago tjat there should be a penalty in recruiting ‘rankings’ for big classes and useless takes - it destroys rosters. The IC rule changes made the point moot because you really can’t take more than 25 anymore.

interestingly, rivals was pretty much right on its evals. even with our bad evals, the higher ranked kids were better than the lower ranked kids. No lower ranked kids outperformed. Some higher ranked kids under-performed but some were good.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Please STFU on this. If our coaches tell a silent not to announce, that's up to them. Just because people like you don't know about it doesn't make it "not real".

There is no extra magic in a verbal anymore. Silents can change their minds. Verbals can change their minds. Kids who sign Financial Aid Agreements can change their minds. Kids who sign National Letters of Intent can change their minds.

Silents are real. And we have silents. So sit back and enjoy the show.

Unless the NCAA changes the Transfer IC rules, we won't sign 25 high school kids this year.
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Another angry soul. Can’t simply state your point without getting all worked up?

I know Manny has used commitments as social media and recruiting momentum, so it’s not saying we don’t have any.…and maybe he is. There’s just seemingly less buzz out there right now and that’s a bit odd compared to recent years. Manny’s actions since taking over is of one who likes keeping the buzz out there in some form, always keeping the U in the news and out there for kids to see/hear…..social media, commit gifs and posts, interviews in the off-season or draft time, etc. To say theres no magic in a verbal, especially from a top kid, is not something I agree with. If you have legit ballers committed and publicly recruiting other top players, that means something, that’s momentum, We see it with QBs often. Some kids make business decisions strictly on depth charts and their playing time. Some make it based on winning and who they will be playing with.

I guess “people like me” just see it differently. Looking forward to see what comes of these June events as things open up for recruiting.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Agree with this, other than don’t know what small means or if it will be small. Assume 20-21 signees. If ICs are opened up, maybe a few more.

CB - 3
S - 1-2
Str - 1
LB - 2
DE - 3
DT - 2
OL - 3-4
TE - 1
WR - 2-3
RB - 0-1
QB - 1 (Brown)
ST - do we tale a punter?
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No rb
we need 3 true lbs.
we need as many good cbs as we can get. 3 corners would be disappointing
ol needs to be 4
 
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