Read and React

[plantcity3]

As a mike, i was thought to read the triangle. Both guards to the fullback

 

[HTownCane71305]

Read the guard

block steps = drop and read qb

Pulls strong side = read the FB and RB for misdirection, blow up the gap behind the guards ***

Pulls weak side = read backs and rip across the face.

Runs straight at you = get big.

 

[DuffleBagYoda]

No im not a troll. thank u for clarifying WEZ.I like actual football talk. When i played LB for a season we had a 52 package i played the Wolf ILB. I loved it because regardless of coverage the box was packed and the reads were simple.

I hope i didn't come off as sayin 34 sucks. It doesn't, ideally its very very effective. But it takes a lot of variables and a great teacher.

People have to stop thinking 43 or 34 it's the gap philosophy that dictates the trench play.

"attacking 43" is generic as ****, what if i stand up my super athletic WDE but his job is the same? Is it a 34 now? Or what if i drop my SAM shaded outside the TE? Is it a 52? Some people should learn or listen...

Responsibilities of the front 7 determine the flavor of D not their alignment.

1 gap = wave... Flowing fluid defense... O1 Canes

2 gap = Wall... Bama under saban... These are generalizations of course.

 

[dk72]

The 3-4 is wack. We barely won our 1st NC running it, and JJ had a horrible 1st year being stuck running it.

Absolutely nothing inherently wrong with the 3-4. The Steelers have used it successfully for decades. The Seahawks took it to the SuperBowl. It just has to be played right, with the right players...and that's where our problem lies. We haven't had the right kinds of players and it hasn't been run in a way that uses our players' best abilities.

 

[BoroCane83]

I'm sold. D'No is doing a good job.

 

[DuffleBagYoda]

Read the guard

block steps = drop and read qb

Pulls strong side = read the FB and RB for misdirection, blow up the gap behind the guards ***

Pulls weak side = read backs and rip across the face.

Runs straight at you = get big.

Generally yes, butttt how many teams really run a "pro style" O with FBs AND TEs between the 20s? Who that we play? PITT maybe the only team who does a lot of that.

Golden is a scrub... Agreed, sad because you're a d1 head coach and "DC" by trade, he should know better.

Football isnt the same anymore, even in tbe SEC where it was smashmouth as recent as a couple years ago... But now A&M n Mizzou have forced teams to adjust on D and copy on O. It starts in high school then trices here and its showing up in the league

A good defense has to change because CFB is more wife open than ever. How many teams in the COUNTRY line up EVERY week on D and say BEAT ME ?

I'll wait... Name 3

Exactly

These guys are falling here for whatever reason but if u gonna convict them use the numerous facts they have handed to us... Not blind anger fueled repetitive rants

 

[DuffleBagYoda]

I'm sold. D'No is doing a good job.

Well that's on U blood. I have NEVER said that and I have been on the fire al train for 2 straight seasons. I just don't enjoy singing like the clone of a a clone of a senseless idiot

 

[2Focusd804]

y'all remember when that story broke about past players coming and saying the LB's didn't know what keys to read?

 

[BoroCane83]

I'll wait... Name 3

Exactly

 

[WestEndZone]

WEZ what is the triangle read for the d-lineman? Would love a breakdown of that

Essentially, it's a list of if-then rules for a DL. The rules associated with outside shaded techniques (5, 3, 1, 9, etc.) are all very similar; same goes for inside techniques (2i, 4i, 7, etc.). 6 technique (DE head up TE), I think, is different than the rest--it's almost like 2 gap technique. 43/44 hybrid and 425 teams (See VaTech and TCU) like to play their DE's in a 6 for a multitude of reasons (I can elaborate if requested). Some teams simplify all this by just teaching two techniques: inside shade and outside shade.

Speaking generally: a DL has a hierarchy of 3 reads. Read #1 is based on the movement of the blocker in which the DL is shaded on. Certain movements by #1 trigger the DL to shift focus to read #2 , which comes from the backfield. Depending on what the DL reads from #2 determines if focus gets shifted to read #3 , which comes from the opposite side of the formation.

Still speaking generally: every DL is responsible for his gap. You hold your gap at all costs. You hold it at all costs considering what the offense is trying to accomplish. Here is where gap exchange comes in. Once an offense leaves a DL unblocked--and a blocker pulls accorss the formation (presumably towards the unblocked DL), that means that one gap is being deleted and recreated wherever that puller is going. If that puller is going towards the unblocked DL, then that DL needs to maintain gap integrity by properly fitting that puller's block (two people can't be responsible for the same gap).

The same scenario applies when there is no puller and simply a kick out block coming from the backfield. Instead of a gap being deleted and recreated, a gap is being created from backfield flow. The same also applies where there is a puller and a kick out block, or two pullers with backfield shutoff, etc. If the offense zones their blockers, then gap control rules apply (yup, I said gap control--1 gap style). Everyone just plays the gap they were assigned. If you get a zone look with a backside kickout, same as the scenario above, you need to fit properly so that there are not two people to a gap.

Specifically: I'll just post a bunch of diagrams that we have used in the past.

5:

3:

6:

 

[WestEndZone]

As a mike, i was thought to read the triangle. Both guards to the fullback

Talking about DL reads. ILB reads are similar. I was always taught to read through the near guard and to the nearest back. We relied on pull calls from the other ILB (we played a 43/44 over--so we played with two inside backers and an overhang Sam, as opposed to a true 43 over with 3 stacked backers).

 

[WestEndZone]

No im not a troll. thank u for clarifying WEZ.I like actual football talk. When i played LB for a season we had a 52 package i played the Wolf ILB. I loved it because regardless of coverage the box was packed and the reads were simple.

I hope i didn't come off as sayin 34 sucks. It doesn't, ideally its very very effective. But it takes a lot of variables and a great teacher.

People have to stop thinking 43 or 34 it's the gap philosophy that dictates the trench play.

"attacking 43" is generic as ****, what if i stand up my super athletic WDE but his job is the same? Is it a 34 now? Or what if i drop my SAM shaded outside the TE? Is it a 52? Some people should learn or listen...

Responsibilities of the front 7 determine the flavor of D not their alignment.

1 gap = wave... Flowing fluid defense... O1 Canes

2 gap = Wall... Bama under saban... These are generalizations of course.

Nah, you didn't come off any way. Just having a convo. Football talk is awesome and I appreciate your comments. You're spot on with everything you said. There are way too many catchall phrases being thrown around. People are just ****ed off because we suck. People have a reason to *****, but I always twitch when people start talking "skeem." Like you said, defenses can be broken up into 2, I think possibly 3 categories: 1 gap (exchange) or 2 gap (control). The third category would be a mixture of the two.

When Jimmy developed that 43 that we all know and love today, he based it off of old school 50 front principles. His over-shifted front (43 over) began as an over-shifted 50. They played with an Over side (9 and 3) and and an Okie side (0 and 4). In agreeing with you, I think people need to understand that there is a lot of carryover in these types of things.

What does attacking 43 even mean?! Just some **** people see in Madden?

 

[DuffleBagYoda]

As a mike, i was thought to read the triangle. Both guards to the fullback

Talking about DL reads. ILB reads are similar. I was always taught to read through the near guard and to the nearest back. We relied on pull calls from the other ILB (we played a 43/44 over--so we played with two inside backers and an overhang Sam, as opposed to a true 43 over with 3 stacked backers).

That means y'all played against run heavy... A lotta hittin goin on, forearm murder! Thats when there was no such thing as finesse backers. Rare football nowdays

 

[DuffleBagYoda]

A lot of people definitely base their rants off of madden money plays lol... Its sad

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

GMAFB! If you watched the games last year, particularly the NU game, the gameplan for offenses was either to run away from Denzel, or to put as many hats on em' as possible. Go watch the NU game, Denzel got JUMPED!...LITERALLY!...DISCRIMINATELY!

And if I'm not mistaken, isn't a good defense supposed to free up their best defenders to make plays?

 

[dycane]

Legitimate points, OP. Every 1 gap system teaches their defensive linemen a set of triangle reads (I'll be glad to break that down for anyone interested). Proper 1 gap tech still requires reading and engaging blockers. If those reads don't happen, then we're going to get kicked out and trapped all game. Only on obvious passing downs do teams allow their DL to disregard their triangle reads--even a 2 gap team can shade their front and do that.

Only thing I would correct from what you said is in reference to 2 gap defenses being poor against the run. A 2 gap system--when run well and with proper personnel--absolutely murders man blocking schemes (power/counter; isolation; trap; down; sweep; etc.). 50 front alignment makes it very difficult for blockers to get angles on runs that involve pullers (you know, because the DL are head up). The unreduced nature of the 50 front also has a similar effect on ball path.

If you can't get an angle on that presumably massive DL, then it makes it very difficult to get the movement necessary from your doubles or downblocks. If you're not getting movement, then you're not going to create lane. If you don't create wide lanes, then the 2 gap philosophy (overlap in gap responsibilities) works. It's almost suffocating. As to the 50 being an unreduced front: any play that is designed to go off tackle (power/counter, down) is going to have to deal with a stout 4 tech. Not getting movement on a 4 is much more damning than not getting movement on a 3.

Isolation runs can be disastrous as well. Again, assuming you have the correct personnel, 2 gap overlap in gap responsibility allows for any number of players to make a play on isolation. If you double the 0, then the 4 is still available to make the play and vice versa. If you base everyone, including the play side ILB, then all three (the 4, 0, and 30) all have an opportunity to make the play. I don't think there's a more idea situation for that style of defense.

...with all that being said, I think 2 gapping sucks balls against zone/veer. You can just widen your splits and immediately create lanes. Overlapping gap responsibilities only work if you can successfully compress the offense. (see above comments)

See Wake Forest a couple years ago?

I was just as angry as everyone else. TCU did the same **** to Oklahoma and burned them with it. You guys need to understand what my goal is on this board. I try really hard to be objective and to push the conversation toward actual football talk.

I just don't understand our lack of adjustment in that situation, WEZ. It took us until the 2nd half (as usual) to adjust to it when it doesn't seem like a mind-blowing thing to adjust to. It's why I have a complete lack of faith in anything this coaching staff does or purports they will do.

I remember watching the broadcast after the game and even the commentators were commenting on how odd it was.

Golden said think players then plays. Those words came from his mouth and then for the last 4 years we have watched him try to fit a round peg into a square hole. Our personnel screams 4-3 attacking defense to me, and yet he was **** bent on fattening up chick and running his 2 gap scheme with no ability to be multiple as he would say.

Semantics are important, bro!

 

[plantcity3]

As a mike, i was thought to read the triangle. Both guards to the fullback

Talking about DL reads. ILB reads are similar. I was always taught to read through the near guard and to the nearest back. We relied on pull calls from the other ILB (we played a 43/44 over--so we played with two inside backers and an overhang Sam, as opposed to a true 43 over with 3 stacked backers).

That means y'all played against run heavy... A lotta hittin goin on, forearm murder! Thats when there was no such thing as finesse backers. Rare football nowdays

The flipper.... Thats what we called the forearm we gave to blockers. I came up at hillsborough with dean eychner as d coordinator. Old, old school, i-form fb lead ground and pound, smashmouth type. He is the hc for brandon now. We ran a 3-3 stack with a rover outside shaded over the te or split wide against no te sets. Our mikes also relied on pull calls on go calls on g blocks.

But like Miami, our scheme was a lil outdated. Our dline 2 gapped. Their main responsibility was to grab cloth, hold up olinemen, and allow us lbs to run free. We didn't have the strength up front to hold the poa. We definitely had the speed though. We should have let them goons run loose like armwood

 

[rok]

Defense should be played downhill. You're not supposed to catch the ball carrier like some feggit.

 

[DuffleBagYoda]

HHS


U a big red guy
I got love for the terriers

 

[Gatorhater]

The 3-4 is wack. We barely won our 1st NC running it, and JJ had a horrible 1st year being stuck running it.

And Howard ran a much more aggressive 3-4 or 5-2 as he called it. But remember Howard had experience with Bill Arnsparger's 53 No Name defense. Al is no Bill or Howard. JJ changed college football with his 4-3