Read and React

[DuffleBagYoda]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Good lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

 

[AguanteHurricanes]

Do you really try and make sense to these idiots on here with the IQ lower than a 3rd grader?

They will all tell you "BLITZ BLITZ!!!! 4-3 JUST BLITZZZ WE"RE MIAMI WE CAN JUST RUN AND BLITZ #1 DEFENSE IF WE DO IT"

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Goox lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

dead

 

[Cribby]

" fill and spill " is my motto between the sheets.

 

[HTownCane71305]

Is this guy a troll?

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Is this guy a troll?

IT'S ALL JUST SAMANTICS BRO

 

[HTownCane71305]

Is this guy a troll?

IT'S ALL JUST SAMANTICS BRO

Sounds like a golden excuse. "Well Joe, at the end of the day the defensive scheme comes down to semantics, and I would say that '******* awful' wouldn't be a great way to sum up our on field performance semantically speaking. You know our guys struggle sometimes because our defense has some exotic semantics and these kids have classes to attend."

 

[Samson Doyo]

We have never been a heavy blitz team. Schiano brought some zone blitz from the NFL with him for his brief time, but that's about it. Historically we had 4 of the baddest d-lineman in the country getting off the ball, getting into the backfield and attacking the offense. 90% of the non-pro Golden/Doh'Nofrio posters want that defensive philosophy back. We have not been an aggressive attacking defense during this coaches tenure. I side with the fans who want that defense. Players and especially Dlineman from sea to shining sea want to play in that style defense. Our coaches seem to be the only ones that don't see that, makes you wonder where their heads are?Just my .02

Go Canes!

 

[Cash]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Goox lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

Not only do you have to hold your point of attack but you have to beat your block every time to be effective. Playing in a 1 gap is a significantly higher percentage of success.

 

[WestEndZone]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Goox lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

Legitimate points, OP. Every 1 gap system teaches their defensive linemen a set of triangle reads (I'll be glad to break that down for anyone interested). Proper 1 gap tech still requires reading and engaging blockers. If those reads don't happen, then we're going to get kicked out and trapped all game. Only on obvious passing downs do teams allow their DL to disregard their triangle reads--even a 2 gap team can shade their front and do that.

Only thing I would correct from what you said is in reference to 2 gap defenses being poor against the run. A 2 gap system--when run well and with proper personnel--absolutely murders man blocking schemes (power/counter; isolation; trap; down; sweep; etc.). 50 front alignment makes it very difficult for blockers to get angles on runs that involve pullers (you know, because the DL are head up). The unreduced nature of the 50 front also has a similar effect on ball path.

If you can't get an angle on that presumably massive DL, then it makes it very difficult to get the movement necessary from your doubles or downblocks. If you're not getting movement, then you're not going to create lane. If you don't create wide lanes, then the 2 gap philosophy (overlap in gap responsibilities) works. It's almost suffocating. As to the 50 being an unreduced front: any play that is designed to go off tackle (power/counter, down) is going to have to deal with a stout 4 tech. Not getting movement on a 4 is much more damning than not getting movement on a 3.

Isolation runs can be disastrous as well. Again, assuming you have the correct personnel, 2 gap overlap in gap responsibility allows for any number of players to make a play on isolation. If you double the 0, then the 4 is still available to make the play and vice versa. If you base everyone, including the play side ILB, then all three (the 4, 0, and 30) all have an opportunity to make the play. I don't think there's a more idea situation for that style of defense.

...with all that being said, I think 2 gapping sucks balls against zone/veer. You can just widen your splits and immediately create lanes. Overlapping gap responsibilities only work if you can successfully compress the offense. (see above comments)

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Goox lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

Legitimate points, OP. Every 1 gap system teaches their defensive linemen a set of triangle reads (I'll be glad to break that down for anyone interested). Proper 1 gap tech still requires reading and engaging blockers. If those reads don't happen, then we're going to get kicked out and trapped all game. Only on obvious passing downs do teams allow their DL to disregard their triangle reads--even a 2 gap team can shade their front and do that.

Only thing I would correct from what you said is in reference to 2 gap defenses being poor against the run. A 2 gap system--when run well and with proper personnel--absolutely murders man blocking schemes (power/counter; isolation; trap; down; sweep; etc.). 50 front alignment makes it very difficult for blockers to get angles on runs that involve pullers (you know, because the DL are head up). The unreduced nature of the 50 front also has a similar effect on ball path.

If you can't get an angle on that presumably massive DL, then it makes it very difficult to get the movement necessary from your doubles or downblocks. If you're not getting movement, then you're not going to create lane. If you don't create wide lanes, then the 2 gap philosophy (overlap in gap responsibilities) works. It's almost suffocating. As to the 50 being an unreduced front: any play that is designed to go off tackle (power/counter, down) is going to have to deal with a stout 4 tech. Not getting movement on a 4 is much more damning than not getting movement on a 3.

Isolation runs can be disastrous as well. Again, assuming you have the correct personnel, 2 gap overlap in gap responsibility allows for any number of players to make a play on isolation. If you double the 0, then the 4 is still available to make the play and vice versa. If you base everyone, including the play side ILB, then all three (the 4, 0, and 30) all have an opportunity to make the play. I don't think there's a more idea situation for that style of defense.

...with all that being said, I think 2 gapping sucks balls against zone/veer. You can just widen your splits and immediately create lanes. Overlapping gap responsibilities only work if you can successfully compress the offense. (see above comments)

See Wake Forest a couple years ago?

 

[MiamiVice7]

 

[WestEndZone]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Goox lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

Legitimate points, OP. Every 1 gap system teaches their defensive linemen a set of triangle reads (I'll be glad to break that down for anyone interested). Proper 1 gap tech still requires reading and engaging blockers. If those reads don't happen, then we're going to get kicked out and trapped all game. Only on obvious passing downs do teams allow their DL to disregard their triangle reads--even a 2 gap team can shade their front and do that.

Only thing I would correct from what you said is in reference to 2 gap defenses being poor against the run. A 2 gap system--when run well and with proper personnel--absolutely murders man blocking schemes (power/counter; isolation; trap; down; sweep; etc.). 50 front alignment makes it very difficult for blockers to get angles on runs that involve pullers (you know, because the DL are head up). The unreduced nature of the 50 front also has a similar effect on ball path.

If you can't get an angle on that presumably massive DL, then it makes it very difficult to get the movement necessary from your doubles or downblocks. If you're not getting movement, then you're not going to create lane. If you don't create wide lanes, then the 2 gap philosophy (overlap in gap responsibilities) works. It's almost suffocating. As to the 50 being an unreduced front: any play that is designed to go off tackle (power/counter, down) is going to have to deal with a stout 4 tech. Not getting movement on a 4 is much more damning than not getting movement on a 3.

Isolation runs can be disastrous as well. Again, assuming you have the correct personnel, 2 gap overlap in gap responsibility allows for any number of players to make a play on isolation. If you double the 0, then the 4 is still available to make the play and vice versa. If you base everyone, including the play side ILB, then all three (the 4, 0, and 30) all have an opportunity to make the play. I don't think there's a more idea situation for that style of defense.

...with all that being said, I think 2 gapping sucks balls against zone/veer. You can just widen your splits and immediately create lanes. Overlapping gap responsibilities only work if you can successfully compress the offense. (see above comments)

See Wake Forest a couple years ago?

I was just as angry as everyone else. TCU did the same **** to Oklahoma and burned them with it. You guys need to understand what my goal is on this board. I try really hard to be objective and to push the conversation toward actual football talk.

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Goox lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

Legitimate points, OP. Every 1 gap system teaches their defensive linemen a set of triangle reads (I'll be glad to break that down for anyone interested). Proper 1 gap tech still requires reading and engaging blockers. If those reads don't happen, then we're going to get kicked out and trapped all game. Only on obvious passing downs do teams allow their DL to disregard their triangle reads--even a 2 gap team can shade their front and do that.

Only thing I would correct from what you said is in reference to 2 gap defenses being poor against the run. A 2 gap system--when run well and with proper personnel--absolutely murders man blocking schemes (power/counter; isolation; trap; down; sweep; etc.). 50 front alignment makes it very difficult for blockers to get angles on runs that involve pullers (you know, because the DL are head up). The unreduced nature of the 50 front also has a similar effect on ball path.

If you can't get an angle on that presumably massive DL, then it makes it very difficult to get the movement necessary from your doubles or downblocks. If you're not getting movement, then you're not going to create lane. If you don't create wide lanes, then the 2 gap philosophy (overlap in gap responsibilities) works. It's almost suffocating. As to the 50 being an unreduced front: any play that is designed to go off tackle (power/counter, down) is going to have to deal with a stout 4 tech. Not getting movement on a 4 is much more damning than not getting movement on a 3.

Isolation runs can be disastrous as well. Again, assuming you have the correct personnel, 2 gap overlap in gap responsibility allows for any number of players to make a play on isolation. If you double the 0, then the 4 is still available to make the play and vice versa. If you base everyone, including the play side ILB, then all three (the 4, 0, and 30) all have an opportunity to make the play. I don't think there's a more idea situation for that style of defense.

...with all that being said, I think 2 gapping sucks balls against zone/veer. You can just widen your splits and immediately create lanes. Overlapping gap responsibilities only work if you can successfully compress the offense. (see above comments)

See Wake Forest a couple years ago?

I was just as angry as everyone else. TCU did the same **** to Oklahoma and burned them with it. You guys need to understand what my goal is on this board. I try really hard to be objective and to push the conversation toward actual football talk.

I just don't understand our lack of adjustment in that situation, WEZ. It took us until the 2nd half (as usual) to adjust to it when it doesn't seem like a mind-blowing thing to adjust to. It's why I have a complete lack of faith in anything this coaching staff does or purports they will do.

I remember watching the broadcast after the game and even the commentators were commenting on how odd it was.

 

[Canesfan1899]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Goox lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

Legitimate points, OP. Every 1 gap system teaches their defensive linemen a set of triangle reads (I'll be glad to break that down for anyone interested). Proper 1 gap tech still requires reading and engaging blockers. If those reads don't happen, then we're going to get kicked out and trapped all game. Only on obvious passing downs do teams allow their DL to disregard their triangle reads--even a 2 gap team can shade their front and do that.

Only thing I would correct from what you said is in reference to 2 gap defenses being poor against the run. A 2 gap system--when run well and with proper personnel--absolutely murders man blocking schemes (power/counter; isolation; trap; down; sweep; etc.). 50 front alignment makes it very difficult for blockers to get angles on runs that involve pullers (you know, because the DL are head up). The unreduced nature of the 50 front also has a similar effect on ball path.

If you can't get an angle on that presumably massive DL, then it makes it very difficult to get the movement necessary from your doubles or downblocks. If you're not getting movement, then you're not going to create lane. If you don't create wide lanes, then the 2 gap philosophy (overlap in gap responsibilities) works. It's almost suffocating. As to the 50 being an unreduced front: any play that is designed to go off tackle (power/counter, down) is going to have to deal with a stout 4 tech. Not getting movement on a 4 is much more damning than not getting movement on a 3.

Isolation runs can be disastrous as well. Again, assuming you have the correct personnel, 2 gap overlap in gap responsibility allows for any number of players to make a play on isolation. If you double the 0, then the 4 is still available to make the play and vice versa. If you base everyone, including the play side ILB, then all three (the 4, 0, and 30) all have an opportunity to make the play. I don't think there's a more idea situation for that style of defense.

...with all that being said, I think 2 gapping sucks balls against zone/veer. You can just widen your splits and immediately create lanes. Overlapping gap responsibilities only work if you can successfully compress the offense. (see above comments)

See Wake Forest a couple years ago?

I was just as angry as everyone else. TCU did the same **** to Oklahoma and burned them with it. You guys need to understand what my goal is on this board. I try really hard to be objective and to push the conversation toward actual football talk.

I just don't understand our lack of adjustment in that situation, WEZ. It took us until the 2nd half (as usual) to adjust to it when it doesn't seem like a mind-blowing thing to adjust to. It's why I have a complete lack of faith in anything this coaching staff does or purports they will do.

I remember watching the broadcast after the game and even the commentators were commenting on how odd it was.

Golden said think players then plays. Those words came from his mouth and then for the last 4 years we have watched him try to fit a round peg into a square hole. Our personnel screams 4-3 attacking defense to me, and yet he was **** bent on fattening up chick and running his 2 gap scheme with no ability to be multiple as he would say.

 

[Cash]

Sometimes we never adjusted to it...

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

The 3-4 is wack. We barely won our 1st NC running it, and JJ had a horrible 1st year being stuck running it.

 

[WestEndZone]

Is part of every defense. Regardless of down linemen

1 Gap u ideally fill and spill. Meaning fill your GAP. Once You READ run you hold that gap and spill the play laterally towards the 12th man. That's why asked on defense was our 13th man in the past. If u read pass its meet at the qb BUT u still have to have integrity to your gap/lane.

2 gap is harder because you're asking a player to engage AND hold up a point and Then pick a gap to fill. This hurts in the run because it is usually paired with 3 lineman meaning 2 can be doubled at the snap, creating pockets as the Ol reach the next level. The idea here is to spill laterally as well. But it takes tremendously strong AND smart linemen. If you have that AND speedy LBs it can work. But there ain't free agency in college so to me waste of time.

I hear players before plays a lot here. But 2 gapping needs the right players. 1 gapping is a more universal scheme. honestly. 1 gap cuts responsibilities and reads in half hopefully giving twice as much time to react.

So when y'all spit your venom out mane sure y'all speak on it properly. Samantics are important people. Goox lawyers skate cases because of it.

Proceed

Legitimate points, OP. Every 1 gap system teaches their defensive linemen a set of triangle reads (I'll be glad to break that down for anyone interested). Proper 1 gap tech still requires reading and engaging blockers. If those reads don't happen, then we're going to get kicked out and trapped all game. Only on obvious passing downs do teams allow their DL to disregard their triangle reads--even a 2 gap team can shade their front and do that.

Only thing I would correct from what you said is in reference to 2 gap defenses being poor against the run. A 2 gap system--when run well and with proper personnel--absolutely murders man blocking schemes (power/counter; isolation; trap; down; sweep; etc.). 50 front alignment makes it very difficult for blockers to get angles on runs that involve pullers (you know, because the DL are head up). The unreduced nature of the 50 front also has a similar effect on ball path.

If you can't get an angle on that presumably massive DL, then it makes it very difficult to get the movement necessary from your doubles or downblocks. If you're not getting movement, then you're not going to create lane. If you don't create wide lanes, then the 2 gap philosophy (overlap in gap responsibilities) works. It's almost suffocating. As to the 50 being an unreduced front: any play that is designed to go off tackle (power/counter, down) is going to have to deal with a stout 4 tech. Not getting movement on a 4 is much more damning than not getting movement on a 3.

Isolation runs can be disastrous as well. Again, assuming you have the correct personnel, 2 gap overlap in gap responsibility allows for any number of players to make a play on isolation. If you double the 0, then the 4 is still available to make the play and vice versa. If you base everyone, including the play side ILB, then all three (the 4, 0, and 30) all have an opportunity to make the play. I don't think there's a more idea situation for that style of defense.

...with all that being said, I think 2 gapping sucks balls against zone/veer. You can just widen your splits and immediately create lanes. Overlapping gap responsibilities only work if you can successfully compress the offense. (see above comments)

See Wake Forest a couple years ago?

I was just as angry as everyone else. TCU did the same **** to Oklahoma and burned them with it. You guys need to understand what my goal is on this board. I try really hard to be objective and to push the conversation toward actual football talk.

I just don't understand our lack of adjustment in that situation, WEZ. It took us until the 2nd half (as usual) to adjust to it when it doesn't seem like a mind-blowing thing to adjust to. It's why I have a complete lack of faith in anything this coaching staff does or purports they will do.

I remember watching the broadcast after the game and even the commentators were commenting on how odd it was.

I don't understand it either. It would be great to have the whole story. It could be as simple as calling a different front. Did they hurry us up and catch us in a certain personnel grouping that didn't allow us to call a different front?

Something I've noticed is that lot of coaches remain too ideological. Maybe in this case, they really believed that what they were doing on defense was able to defend whatever WF was throwing at us. It's a legitimate thought: all defenses strive to stop everything in base--its how we dominated on defense for decades.

Maybe they wanted to stay the course and give the players a chance to adjust. Maybe he didn't want to think practically: if its not working, change it! Maybe they have a policy of not deviating from the game plan until certain period; it could be a philosophical thing passed down from their coaching tree because of past experiences. Who knows?

Since the result was negative, we can have this conversation.

 

[mojoxd]

WEZ what is the triangle read for the d-lineman? Would love a breakdown of that

 

[WestEndZone]

The 3-4 is wack. We barely won our 1st NC running it, and JJ had a horrible 1st year being stuck running it.

It was a 52 slant! Such a badass oldschool D! I played in it during high school, lol. I may be wrong, but we were one gapping all day in that system.