Re: Pay for Play...the NCAA is not the villain

[Silentobserver]

You must be a blast at parties.

Sports are good for childhood and adolescent development and have shown a positive correlation to academic and holistic personal progress.

I believe in being a well-rounded individual. At one time in western history, it would have been acceptable to call such a person a "Renaissance Man", and it would have been considered a compliment.

It seems that your view is that there is one and only one reason for an individual to pursue an activity and that is to make it a full time avocation. Sounds like a dreary future, to me. Really, it seems a dreary view of humanity, as though we are all intended only to serve as a functionary cog in a machine.

Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with 97% (or whatever the actual number is) of college athletes going pro in something other than sports. Blowing up the entire system to suit the 3% seems a bit crazier. But, as I've said before, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I just acknowledge that this is an immensely complicated subject that seems destined to create a lot of turmoil and upheaval.

My aversion isn’t sport specifically. I agree with you regarding the benefits of sport and the holistic development of the individual.

My issue is the monetizing the scholastic endeavor that I addressed previously.

 

[kmwcane]

Lol so you think the guys not making money will be happy watching the allstars get big money?

So what? That's how it works in a free market. Some people make more than others because their skills are more highly valued.

 

[moshated305]

Ridiculous argument. College sports existed for decades before pro sports did. And there are plenty of sports that kids, adolescents, and adults play that either don't have professional levels such as the NFL, or in which the participants never intend on going pro.

People play sports because of love of the game and competition.

There wasn't millions riding on it back then. And sports with no pro league were you have a chance to make millions aren't generating much money. People play sports because it's fun, yes, but how many less people who put their body through all that training and taking all those hits if the NFL and millions of dollars wasn't there as an incentive to do so?

 

[kmwcane]

I love how you keep skipping over that they are amateur athletes that are recieving 100s of thousands of dollars in education, room, and food.

Who or what determined that they are "amateurs"?

So what if they receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for education, room and food? Why shouldn't they be able to make more if they can?

 

[CanesWooshWoosh]

The NCAA had $1.1 billion of revenue in 2017. That’s over $101,000 for every scholarship football player on all 130 FBS teams.

And then there’s T. Boone Pickens, LSU’s $24 million locker room, and Nebraska’s $155 million football facility.

This would be like a top 5 entity in the Fortune 500. There isn’t a plane of existence where this isn’t a full blown industry.

I think we could figure out a way to also maintain pole vaulting and women’s lacrosse.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

So what? That's how it works in a free market. Some people make more than others because their skills are more highly valued.

Correct. No problem with free market. But you think 95% of the team will be cool with yhe other 5% making money? These are kids not business men.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Who or what determined that they are "amateurs"?

So what if they receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for education, room and food? Why shouldn't they be able to make more if they can?

Lol if you cant see how that will be abused i cant help you. Im sure Alabama and Clemson will play by the rules.


Whats to say wealthy boosters dont just buy truckloads of **** to pay the players?


Yall live in a fantasy world where nobody cheats the system.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

So why don't more players go to CFL? Kind of well known and I believe it has an age limit of 18. If pay is that big of need.

Because the CFL currently pays less than CFB, and CFB is better at creating draft value and marketing value for players.

And when I say CFL pays less, I am factoring in training, nutrition, the benefit/value of a college education, medical benefits, I'm not even counting bags.

But it's a great question, if college football was such a bad deal for the players, more of them would be skipping on college to go play for arena or CFL, or no one is stopping them from signing with an agent and endorsers and just prepping for the draft for three years. There is nothing forcing anyone to accept the deal that the NCAA offers. If you don't like it, don't participate.

And no, I am not defending the NCAA. It is a shamockery of a "governing" body. It's just that some of the moralistic arguments of "pay for play" are very ill-founded.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

My aversion isn’t sport specifically. I agree with you regarding the benefits of sport and the holistic development of the individual.

My issue is the monetizing the scholastic endeavor that I addressed previously.

Got it. Sorry I probably missed your previous post.

 

[HamburgerSV]

WOW, there’s no agreement in place between the NCAA and the NFL. I don’t know how the NFL has no anti-trust issues with this.

NFL can put rules on who’s draft eligible (3 years removed from high school)

Lol so you think the guys not making money will be happy watching the allstars get big money?


I love how you keep skipping over that they are amateur athletes that are recieving 100s of thousands of dollars in education, room, and food.

And ive already stated its bad for Miami.

“100’s of thousands of dollars” lol ok buddy. They're Not getting paid to play so they’re still amateurs. If some marginal players aren’t happy that they’re making less than the star players than they need a reality check because thats how life works

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

NFL can put rules on who’s draft eligible (3 years removed from high school)

“100’s of thousands of dollars” lol ok buddy. They're Not getting paid to play so they’re still amateurs. If some marginal players aren’t happy that they’re making less than the star players than they need a reality check because thats how life works

How much would it cost me to go to miami for 4 or 5 years? Lmao that you think its not 100s of thousands.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

There wasn't millions riding on it back then. And sports with no pro league were you have a chance to make millions aren't generating much money. People play sports because it's fun, yes, but how many less people who put their body through all that training and taking all those hits if the NFL and millions of dollars wasn't there as an incentive to do so?

Given how many players make it from Pee-Wee to high school, to college, to the pros, I certainly hope that 90% of them play the sport without thinking they are going to play in the NFL. If everyone playing football today thinks they are going to make millions in the NFL, we've got a major mass delusion problem on our hands.

Jeez, there are 250 DIII football teams in the U.S. There are only 130 FBS teams. And you've got to know that the massive majority of even those FBS players know there is little to zero chance they even get a whiff of an NFL tryout. You still want to try and make the argument that the only reason people play college sports is to go pro?

 

[CanesWooshWoosh]

Lol if you cant see how that will be abused i cant help you. Im sure Alabama and Clemson will play by the rules.


Whats to say wealthy boosters dont just buy truckloads of **** to pay the players?


Yall live in a fantasy world where nobody cheats the system.

Cheaters shouldn't dictate the norms that everybody else lives by. Also, these rules are just artificial archaic constructs. They're not very applicable in 2019, when everybody involved in college football is swimming in money. The rules can just be changed, and then it's not cheating anymore.

In any event, I don't see how any of that should be a barrier to earning a wage, especially when the industry can easily support it.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

How much would it cost me to go to miami for 4 or 5 years? Lmao that you think its not 100s of thousands.

$265,096 for four years. That's 2017/2018 dollars. I'm sure it's 10% (or more) higher by now since the cost of college outpaces inflation significantly.

University of Miami - Net Price, Tuition, Cost to Attend, Financial Aid and Student Loans

Discover the details of the $88,440 annual cost for University of Miami. How much finanancial aid can you receive and what will you really have to pay?

www.collegecalc.org

 

[Silentobserver]

Got it. Sorry I probably missed your previous post.

No worries.

The discussion of sports as part of the school environment is important, but that importance has been superseded by money. We can have a system where sports remain a part of campus while also providing opportunity to allow those who want to pursue it professionally. However, I don’t think what we currently have in place does that without the inherent corruption that comes with it. I think a model like European soccer clubs/academies would be the ideal for the large money making sports without compromising the integrity of academia (ironic I know when we acknowledge the admissions scandal that broke this past summer).

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

$265,096 for four years. That's 2017/2018 dollars. I'm sure it's 10% (or more) higher by now since the cost of college outpaces inflation significantly.

University of Miami - Net Price, Tuition, Cost to Attend, Financial Aid and Student Loans

Discover the details of the $88,440 annual cost for University of Miami. How much finanancial aid can you receive and what will you really have to pay?

www.collegecalc.org

But thats not enough for these kids. Lol

 

[JD08]

For the nfl It’s all about getting a free farm system and having an extra 3 years to evaluate players

Two things can be true at the same time. Look at how the scolds have been pushing against the NFL regarding CTE. If you don't think there will be a huge outcry and front page news coverage of an 18 yr old seriously injured by an NFL player, you're not looking at this objectively.

The NFL benefits from the current system as do the colleges and the players. This move looks on the surface like it will put more money in players' pockets, but the law of unintended consequences will come into play.

 

[CanesWooshWoosh]

$265,096 for four years. That's 2017/2018 dollars. I'm sure it's 10% (or more) higher by now since the cost of college outpaces inflation significantly.

University of Miami - Net Price, Tuition, Cost to Attend, Financial Aid and Student Loans

Discover the details of the $88,440 annual cost for University of Miami. How much finanancial aid can you receive and what will you really have to pay?

www.collegecalc.org

Since it's all the same to the University, the players should have the option to take that in cash, and leave the seat open for another student who can pay the tuition.

 

[mackjones]

$265,096 for four years. That's 2017/2018 dollars. I'm sure it's 10% (or more) higher by now since the cost of college outpaces inflation significantly.

University of Miami - Net Price, Tuition, Cost to Attend, Financial Aid and Student Loans

Discover the details of the $88,440 annual cost for University of Miami. How much finanancial aid can you receive and what will you really have to pay?

www.collegecalc.org

That monetary figure is PEANUTS in stark contrast to what the university " rakes in " from the conference and lucrative telly contracts!

 

[g8rh8rMD]

No worries.

The discussion of sports as part of the school environment is important, but that importance has been superseded by money. We can have a system where sports remain a part of campus while also providing opportunity to allow those who want to pursue it professionally. However, I don’t think what we currently have in place does that without the inherent corruption that comes with it. I think a model like European soccer clubs/academies would be the ideal for the large money making sports without compromising the integrity of academia (ironic I know when we acknowledge the admissions scandal that broke this past summer).

I've really always thought that we'd all be better off if the NFL, and NBA for that matter, adopted the MLB rule that says you can go pro out of high school or you have to wait three years. But there is no incentive for the NFL to do that.

I agree with you, that this conversation to me is about the greater population and institution of collegiate athletics, rather than about the few players "getting taken advantage of". Guess what? Progressive taxation means that a segment of the population is getting taken advantage of. When I pay my bills and someone else doesn't, I am "getting taken advantage of". Nothing in this life is ever, or ever will be perfectly "fair", but the benefit of the current system, if it was policed ethically and evenhandedly, would be about as good on the cost-benefit scale as is achievable in the grand scheme of things.

Problem is, the corruption at the top of the NCAA and many of it's member institutions is also unacceptable.

At this point, it seems the only possible outcome is to burn the whole thing down. I just think that's unfortunate. But so is much of what's happened in college football and basketball in the past decade, plus where cheating has become so rampant. Maybe burning it down really is the best thing, I don't know.