Rashawn Scotts' Non catch

[alwaysacane]

thought it was a catch............in addition, it appears after they he hits the ground the defenders arm under the ball contributes to the ball coming out.
imo, catch

 

[dk72]

Supposedly if you leave your feet to catch the ball, you must maintain possession when you hit the ground -- at least that is how it was explained to me. That's why it was ruled incomplete. With that said, it's an idiotic rule. Why can the ground cause an incompletion but not a fumble?

But how long after hitting the ground do you have to maintain possession? His knee hit in bounds, he hit the ground with complete control and only then did the defender land on him and then ball came lose. Where is the line drawn as to what point it's considered a completed play and everything afterwords is post-play? The entire rule is nonsensical and should be changed.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

Supposedly if you leave your feet to catch the ball, you must maintain possession when you hit the ground -- at least that is how it was explained to me. That's why it was ruled incomplete. With that said, it's an idiotic rule. Why can the ground cause an incompletion but not a fumble?

But how long after hitting the ground do you have to maintain possession? His knee hit in bounds, he hit the ground with complete control and only then did the defender land on him and then ball came lose. Where is the line drawn as to what point it's considered a completed play and everything afterwords is post-play? The entire rule is nonsensical and should be changed.

Oh I completely agree. The rule is idiotic. IMO, once his knee hits the ground the play should be over regardless of what happens after that. But apparently that is not how this particular rule is written, which would explain why the call was not overturned.

 

[561Cane]

That was a catch!

As for Scott, it's great to see him do so well. The man wants to get paid and hopefully he has a monster year for the Canes!

 

[The Franchise]

If the rule is interpreted the same as the NFL rule it was not a catch. Calvin Johnson had the same thing happen a couple years ago. No catch.

If you catch it, come down with and make a football move then it's valid. If you catch it and go to the ground instantly you have to possess it after hitting the ground.

 

[Dingaan1828]

Jesus, I quoted the fracking NCAA rule. It says nothing about maintaining possession after you are down. I don't know why some here are saying it's a bad rule. Read the rule. There is nothing tricky or obscure in the NCAA rule.

NFL is different. We don't play by NFL rules. It was a bad call.

 

[pimpcane1]

If the rule is interpreted the same as the NFL rule it was not a catch. Calvin Johnson had the same thing happen a couple years ago. No catch.

If you catch it, come down with and make a football move then it's valid. If you catch it and go to the ground instantly you have to possess it after hitting the ground.

Dez made a football move when he dove for the endzone and they still called his incomplete. They said it wasn't a football move that is common to the game.

 

[ThomasM]

Except he had less possession than Scott.

Incomplete Pass
ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete if the ball is out of bounds
by rule (Rule 4-2-3) or if it touches the ground when not firmly controlled by
a player. It also is incomplete when a player leaves his feet and receives the
pass but first lands on or outside a boundary line, unless his progress has been
stopped in the field of play or end zone (Rule 4-1-3-p) (A.R. 2-4-3-III and A.R.
7-3-7-I).
b. When a legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball belongs to the passing
team at the previous spot.
c. When an illegal forward pass is incomplete, the ball belongs to the passing
team at the spot of the pass (Exception: If Team B declines the penalty for
an illegal pass thrown from the end zone, the ball shall next be put in play
at the previous spot.) (A.R. 7-3-7-II-III).

Scott's catch should have been good.

When we played FLorida with JAcory the gator WR did the same thing and gave them a complete pass

 

[Nickkcin]

Incomplete Pass
ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete if the ball is out of bounds
by rule (Rule 4-2-3) or if it touches the ground when not firmly controlled by
a player. It also is incomplete when a player leaves his feet and receives the
pass but first lands on or outside a boundary line, unless his progress has been
stopped in the field of play or end zone (Rule 4-1-3-p) (A.R. 2-4-3-III and A.R.
7-3-7-I).
b. When a legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball belongs to the passing
team at the previous spot.
c. When an illegal forward pass is incomplete, the ball belongs to the passing
team at the spot of the pass (Exception: If Team B declines the penalty for
an illegal pass thrown from the end zone, the ball shall next be put in play
at the previous spot.) (A.R. 7-3-7-II-III).

Scott's catch should have been good.

New language to clarify “catch” (2‐4‐3) E Catch, Interception, Recovery

Article 3.
a. To catch a ball means that a player: 1. secures control of a live ball in flight with his hands or arms before the ball touches the ground, and 2. touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body, and then 3. maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game, i.e., long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent, etc., and 4. satisfies paragraphs b, c, and d below.

b. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent) he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or in the end zone. This is also required for a player attempting to make a catch at the sideline and going to the ground out of bounds. If he loses control of the ball which then touches the ground before he regains control, it is not a catch. If he regains control inbounds prior to the ball touching the ground it is a catch.

c. If the player loses control of the ball while simultaneously touching the ground with any part of his body, or if there is doubt that the acts were simultaneous, it is not a catch. If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered loss of possession; he must lose control of the ball in order for there to be a loss of possession.

d. If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control and continues to maintain control, and the elements above are satisfied, it is a catch.

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/athletics/2013-14_NCAA_FB_Rules_Changes.pdf

The Dez/CJ rule does apply to college as of 2013/14 therefore "by rule" its incomplete...regardless of what they thought.

 

[x_y_no]

So let's take these one by one...

a. To catch a ball means that a player: 1. secures control of a live ball in flight with his hands or arms before the ball touches the ground,

He caught the ball in his hands.


and 2. touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body,

both his feet touched in bounds.


and then 3. maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game, i.e., long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.,

He tucked the ball away in the crook of his right arm.


and 4. satisfies paragraphs b, c, and d below.

b. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent) he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or in the end zone.

The ball was firmly tucked away in the crook of his arm as his knee hit the ground. At that point, he is down. The ball remained firmly held and unmoving as he continued to fall forward out of bounds - but again at this point he is already down by rule because his knee is on the ground.


This is also required for a player attempting to make a catch at the sideline and going to the ground out of bounds. If he loses control of the ball which then touches the ground before he regains control, it is not a catch. If he regains control inbounds prior to the ball touching the ground it is a catch.

This part doesn't apply because he was already down by rule, still in possession of the ball, before he fell out of bounds and lost the ball.


c. If the player loses control of the ball while simultaneously touching the ground with any part of his body, or if there is doubt that the acts were simultaneous, it is not a catch. If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered loss of possession; he must lose control of the ball in order for there to be a loss of possession.

Again, this should not apply because he was already down by rule in-bounds well before he hit the ground out of bounds and lost the ball.

d. If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control and continues to maintain control, and the elements above are satisfied, it is a catch.


The crucial element, as I see it, is that his knee hit the ground in-bounds while he had solid control of the ball, having made the move of tucking the ball away. I don't see how that isn't a catch.

 

[Dingaan1828]

[MENTION=2172]Nickkcin[/MENTION]
You are correct. I should have read further.

 

[deleted4697]

Stupid ads rule. ....seems like u need catch the ball, hold on to it when u fall down, make another football play, and then hand it to the red for it to be a **** catch

 

[prinmemo]

If you are inbounds and you jump, catch the ball and gain possession, land on two feet, then fall and hit both your knees on the ground, and then you do a ****** move and let go of the ball, is that a fumble?

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

Not a catch.

You have to maintain possession if you fall to the ground after catching it. The ball came out of his hands immediately after he hit the ground. The ground can't cause a fumble...but it can cause an incompletion. Easiest call in the world. Shouldn't have even been reviewed.

 

[duke4heisman]

Dude had both feet in bounds (only need one). Knee hit the ground, all while maintaining complete control. Anything after that is irrelevant. Catch.

 

[Nickkcin]

Dude had both feet in bounds (only need one). Knee hit the ground, all while maintaining complete control. Anything after that is irrelevant. Catch.

The issue is though as he was in the "attempt of making a football move" contact was made with a tackler. Therefore possession has to be maintained through the tackle and contact with the ground. In slow motion the ball coming out seemed late, but as he made contact with the ground in real time the ball came out. The issue with this rule is how long should a referee give for a football move to be made. But as by rule, its technically an incomplete pass.

 

[Nickkcin]

So let's take these one by one...

a. To catch a ball means that a player: 1. secures control of a live ball in flight with his hands or arms before the ball touches the ground,

He caught the ball in his hands.


and 2. touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body,

both his feet touched in bounds.


and then 3. maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game, i.e., long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.,

He tucked the ball away in the crook of his right arm.


and 4. satisfies paragraphs b, c, and d below.

b. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent) he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or in the end zone.

The ball was firmly tucked away in the crook of his arm as his knee hit the ground. At that point, he is down. The ball remained firmly held and unmoving as he continued to fall forward out of bounds - but again at this point he is already down by rule because his knee is on the ground.


This is also required for a player attempting to make a catch at the sideline and going to the ground out of bounds. If he loses control of the ball which then touches the ground before he regains control, it is not a catch. If he regains control inbounds prior to the ball touching the ground it is a catch.

This part doesn't apply because he was already down by rule, still in possession of the ball, before he fell out of bounds and lost the ball.


c. If the player loses control of the ball while simultaneously touching the ground with any part of his body, or if there is doubt that the acts were simultaneous, it is not a catch. If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered loss of possession; he must lose control of the ball in order for there to be a loss of possession.

Again, this should not apply because he was already down by rule in-bounds well before he hit the ground out of bounds and lost the ball.

d. If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control and continues to maintain control, and the elements above are satisfied, it is a catch.


The crucial element, as I see it, is that his knee hit the ground in-bounds while he had solid control of the ball, having made the move of tucking the ball away. I don't see how that isn't a catch.

If all he does is attempt to gain possession and tuck it away then its not a "football move". He mas to make an attempt to turn up field or tuck and continue without contact being made by a defender. When the tackler makes contact before a "football move" is made then he has to maintain possession through hitting the ground. Since contact was made by a tackler and the ball came out after making contact with the ground (regardless if it was ripped out by a defender while going to the ground or simply being dropped) then its deemed an incomplete catch. Just like sideline catches where a WR gets his feet down and is then hit by a defender which knocks the ball out as he makes contact with the ground its an incomplete catch.

 

[nikkoum]

I thought. Although I'm not entirely sure. That the referee missed a facemask on the play. It appeared that the defender had his inside hand locked on his facemask as he brought him down to the ground. The only thing that made me look for it was when scott got up and seemed to be signaling facemask. I couldn't tell if he was saying that or catch.

If anyone has a video clip...

 

[Verobob]

Look ! Sorry, but the Big 8 refs did everything they could to help Nebr: Bad call on Scott, BOTH of Walton's TDs called back,
penalty on Golden. Kind of reminds me of Big 8 Ref Terry Porter who was censured for calling pass interference - 7 seconds later -
in the Ohio St. championship game. Bottom line: I'm convinced there are still many out there who have it in for the Canes.
Call me paranoid if you wish.

 

[L A M P]

Not a catch. You have to maintain possession if you fall to the ground after catching it. The ball came out of his hands immediately after he hit the ground. The ground can't cause a fumble...but it can cause an incompletion. Easiest call in the world. Shouldn't have even been reviewed.