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Randy Shannon " 2 " Canes Elite...

caneambassador said:
This class has a chance to be special. I mean battle Clemson for the # 1 spot special. Justin flowe is still talking Miami, get this kid and everyone will follow. darnell, Walker,
Dennis, **** we might get all the decommits back to. I was excited
When randy took over because I knew
He was a great recruiter and a great
DEFENSE guy, just know head coaching experience. But let manny
And this group get what randy had..it will be total annihilation!!
Click to expand...
90172
 
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OriginalGatorHater said:
Its because people want to be able to use it as an excuse "why rankings don't matter". They want to be able to point to that class and say "SEE RANKINGS MEAN NOTHING". Then when you poke holes in their theory they don't want to hear it because they know they have nothing else to fall back on.
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Exactly. Here’s the y stars matter:

I’m just going to compare our classes v. Bama’s since 07 (since we wanna always talk about our 08 class):

Shannon & Saban took over in 2007 (y we didn’t hire Saban is beyond me)

Saban’s first class (2007: ranked 12th
avg .8781)
Shannon’s first class (2007: ranked 13th
avg .8890)

Saban’s 2nd class (2008: ranked 3rd
avg .9120)
Shannon’s 2nd class (2008: ranked 1st
avg .8934)

Saban’s 3rd class (2009: ranked 3rd
avg .9130)
Shannon’s 3rd class (2009: ranked 16th
avg .8948)

Saban’s 4th class (2010: ranked 4th
avg .8995)
Shannon’s 4th & last (2010: ranked 14th
avg .8748)

Saban’s first 4 class avg class ranked 5th and avg recruit ranked .9005 (avg 4 star-blue chip class)

Shannon’s first 4 classes avg class ranked 11th and avg recruit ranked .8888 (avg 3 star class)

Results? Bama won 2 National Championships w/in his 1st 4 yrs (2007-2011)

Miami....stuck in mediocre ****.
 
caneambassador said:
This class has a chance to be special. I mean battle Clemson for the # 1 spot special. Justin flowe is still talking Miami, get this kid and everyone will follow. darnell, Walker,
Dennis, **** we might get all the decommits back to. I was excited
When randy took over because I knew
He was a great recruiter and a great
DEFENSE guy, just know head coaching experience. But let manny
And this group get what randy had..it will be total annihilation!!
Click to expand...
Onion was a Great recruiter??....In what F-ing World??
 
caneambassador said:
I think you must be high sambo. That defense was notorious against Tim tebow
They just got tired of a mediocre
Offense and bad coaching. Far as recruting randy cleaned house.
Click to expand...
His 08 Class was terribly overrated and terribly LBer Top heavy....he shunned every school not named MNW and Booker T in ref to recruiting, which hurt us for yrs to come....
 
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Rellyrell said:
2 of those 4 stars were fringe 4 stars, including our starting QB. Plus majority of those 3 stars did crap for us; couple that w the classes that were recruited before & after that 08 class, and it was a combustible failure. I believe our avg player rating ranked outside the top 15 that yr, too.
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I already pointed out the evals sucked. That has been a big part of our problem since coker.

In any group of 15 four star kids, some will be higher ranked four stars and some lower. Whatever @ that.

However Jacory was not a ”fringe” 4*. He was the No.7 qb in the country per rivals (highest we have gotten since KW).

And for the record, coker’s ‘04 class was a bigger bust than Shannon’s ‘08 class, and it aint close. Coker’s ‘04 class was actually the roster killer that destroyed the program. (‘03 was mostly a wipeout also, thought it had a few gems (Hester, Beason, Olsen) - after ‘04 the collective dead wood on the roster was impossible to overcome.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Exactly. Here’s the y stars matter:

I’m just going to compare our classes v. Bama’s since 07 (since we wanna always talk about our 08 class):

Shannon & Saban took over in 2007 (y we didn’t hire Saban is beyond me)

Saban’s first class (2007: ranked 12th
avg .8781)
Shannon’s first class (2007: ranked 13th
avg .8890)

Saban’s 2nd class (2008: ranked 3rd
avg .9120)
Shannon’s 2nd class (2008: ranked 1st
avg .8934)

Saban’s 3rd class (2009: ranked 3rd
avg .9130)
Shannon’s 3rd class (2009: ranked 16th
avg .8948)

Saban’s 4th class (2010: ranked 4th
avg .8995)
Shannon’s 4th & last (2010: ranked 14th
avg .8748)

Saban’s first 4 class avg class ranked 5th and avg recruit ranked .9005 (avg 4 star-blue chip class)

Shannon’s first 4 classes avg class ranked 11th and avg recruit ranked .8888 (avg 3 star class)

Results? Bama won 2 National Championships w/in his 1st 4 yrs (2007-2011)

Miami....stuck in mediocre ****.
Click to expand...
How easy it must have been to get all ththe sofla kids after that.
We talk about clappy and golden and now cmr.
But I still recall hearing in local radio that an mfl
Coach was appalled that shields went to a school like Miami and don’t know how to watch film. He said that shields told him that he didn’t know what to look at when they gave him the tapes.
 
Rellyrell said:
Exactly. Here’s the y stars matter:

I’m just going to compare our classes v. Bama’s since 07 (since we wanna always talk about our 08 class):

Shannon & Saban took over in 2007 (y we didn’t hire Saban is beyond me)

Saban’s first class (2007: ranked 12th
avg .8781)
Shannon’s first class (2007: ranked 13th
avg .8890)

Saban’s 2nd class (2008: ranked 3rd
avg .9120)
Shannon’s 2nd class (2008: ranked 1st
avg .8934)

Saban’s 3rd class (2009: ranked 3rd
avg .9130)
Shannon’s 3rd class (2009: ranked 16th
avg .8948)

Saban’s 4th class (2010: ranked 4th
avg .8995)
Shannon’s 4th & last (2010: ranked 14th
avg .8748)

Saban’s first 4 class avg class ranked 5th and avg recruit ranked .9005 (avg 4 star-blue chip class)

Shannon’s first 4 classes avg class ranked 11th and avg recruit ranked .8888 (avg 3 star class)

Results? Bama won 2 National Championships w/in his 1st 4 yrs (2007-2011)

Miami....stuck in mediocre ****.
Click to expand...
Aside from the 2008 class 09 and 10 were historically bad
 
pacusmc said:
How easy it must have been to get all ththe sofla kids after that.
We talk about clappy and golden and now cmr.
But I still recall hearing in local radio that an mfl
Coach was appalled that shields went to a school like Miami and don’t know how to watch film. He said that shields told him that he didn’t know what to look at when they gave him the tapes.
Click to expand...

Too be fair, Shields was doing his own thing. He refused to move to DB until the end of his junior year as well. I don’t think 08 was that bad on talent. As mostly sophomore they won 9 games in 09. The issue is they just never got better especially our top players. Benjamin carved out a solid career and so did Byrd. Hank was 07 but he put in work his last 2 years. But the 4&5 stars like Davon Johnson, Tommy Streeter, & AJ did basically nothing or came on late. And that’s just WR. Jordan Futch & Ramon Buchanan did very little. Also Patrick Peterson leaving hurt us in a multitude of ways. Arthur Brown being here for 2 years then leaving sucked as well.

That class peaked too early.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
I already pointed out the evals sucked. That has been a big part of our problem since coker.

In any group of 15 four star kids, some will be higher ranked four stars and some lower. Whatever @ that.

However Jacory was not a ”fringe” 4*. He was the No.7 qb in the country per rivals (highest we have gotten since KW).

And for the record, coker’s ‘04 class was a bigger bust than Shannon’s ‘08 class, and it aint close. Coker’s ‘04 class was actually the roster killer that destroyed the program. (‘03 was mostly a wipeout also, thought it had a few gems (Hester, Beason, Olsen) - after ‘04 the collective dead wood on the roster was impossible to overcome.
Click to expand...

This.

Any class with 15 four star players and 2 five star players is a top level class. Classes are not ranked just because of sheer volume, you have to have a huge volume of highly rated players. Signing 35 3 star players won't put you anywhere near the top of the list.

There's two major flaws in using average player rank. If you only sign 12 kids but they're all highly rated, your average player rank will be high but you're not going to be able to field a team signing 12 kids every year. You HAVE to sign more kids even if they're ranked lower simply to have numbers. Also the difference between two players' ranks can are often tiny percentage points. It's literally impossible to say a kid with an .8899 rating is any better than a kid with an .8845 rating. It's purely speculation.

The biggest issue with the 08 class is that the roster was so depleted, we had to rely on waaaay too many 18 year old kids right off the bat. The coaching staff was not exactly great at developing players which is why so few of them ever seemed to get any better. And of course, some of those kids were just whiffs by the staff in terms of evaluation. This is why evaluation is so important. If you've got two guys who play the same position and the sites have them ranked similarly, the coaches have to know which guy's skill set better fits their scheme.
 
lauderdaleballer said:
Too be fair, Shields was doing his own thing. He refused to move to DB until the end of his junior year as well. I don’t think 08 was that bad on talent. As mostly sophomore they won 9 games in 09. The issue is they just never got better especially our top players. Benjamin carved out a solid career and so did Byrd. Hank was 07 but he put in work his last 2 years. But the 4&5 stars like Davon Johnson, Tommy Streeter, & AJ did basically nothing or came on late. And that’s just WR. Jordan Futch & Ramon Buchanan did very little. Also Patrick Peterson leaving hurt us in a multitude of ways. Arthur Brown being here for 2 years then leaving sucked as well.

That class peaked too early.
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A good staff would’ve made those kids high draft picks. The blood started gushing after those players you mentioned. The negative recruiting was at an all time high. The kids that were signing during the Shannon years were witness to the dominance and were huge cane fans. The kids now we actually have to recruit and put a product in the field.
I know some people on here have a love for shanon. He’s from here and was a cane. But saying shields was “doing his own thing” is just an excuse for what the program was lacking after butch left.
 
DTP said:
This.

Any class with 15 four star players and 2 five star players is a top level class. Classes are not ranked just because of sheer volume, you have to have a huge volume of highly rated players. Signing 35 3 star players won't put you anywhere near the top of the list.

There's two major flaws in using average player rank. If you only sign 12 kids but they're all highly rated, your average player rank will be high but you're not going to be able to field a team signing 12 kids every year. You HAVE to sign more kids even if they're ranked lower simply to have numbers. Also the difference between two players' ranks can are often tiny percentage points. It's literally impossible to say a kid with an .8899 rating is any better than a kid with an .8845 rating. It's purely speculation.

The biggest issue with the 08 class is that the roster was so depleted, we had to rely on waaaay too many 18 year old kids right off the bat. The coaching staff was not exactly great at developing players which is why so few of them ever seemed to get any better. And of course, some of those kids were just whiffs by the staff in terms of evaluation. This is why evaluation is so important. If you've got two guys who play the same position and the sites have them ranked similarly, the coaches have to know which guy's skill set better fits their scheme.
Click to expand...
Agree partly, but not sure if I am misreading you or we disagree on one key point.

Coaches evaluate kids, not ratings. They need to be able to evaluate two kids and take the 3* over the 5*. They are not just evaluating the minor differences after the recruiting services generally rate kids. They shouldn’t pay attention to the rankings, tbh. That is for fans to worry about. The rankings tell us how they are doing because when multiple top staffs want a kid, they get ranked higher. But they do not tell coaches who to recruit. That would be the tail wagging the dog, so to speak. Also they need to evaluate fit for scheme and culture, which is its own issue.

Re the ‘08 class, in addition to awful evals, another issue was way too many kids never even played or hardlly played before leaving the program. Some injuries, some attitudes, some who knows why.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
I already pointed out the evals sucked. That has been a big part of our problem since coker.

In any group of 15 four star kids, some will be higher ranked four stars and some lower. Whatever @ that.

However Jacory was not a ”fringe” 4*. He was the No.7 qb in the country per rivals (highest we have gotten since KW).

And for the record, coker’s ‘04 class was a bigger bust than Shannon’s ‘08 class, and it aint close. Coker’s ‘04 class was actually the roster killer that destroyed the program. (‘03 was mostly a wipeout also, thought it had a few gems (Hester, Beason, Olsen) - after ‘04 the collective dead wood on the roster was impossible to overcome.
Click to expand...

**** good post. I don't know how Shannon keeps getting $hitted on, yet you have Coker who lets mr ponzi scheme have unfettered access to our players and recruits less than stellar players into the program. Coker is never really vilified on this site. The **** is mind boggling to say the least.
 
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pacusmc said:
A good staff would’ve made those kids high draft picks.
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I disagree. A good staff would not have recruited most of those kids. It’s not like they turned out to be better in the NFL than at UM. The reveal on Shannon is he took 8 kids from MNW in ‘08 and the guy who turned out to be the best player in the class we never even offered.

Harris, Spence, Benjamin and Jacory turned out solidly. Brown had talent and was a mistake by the staff in terms of how he was used. Aldarius didn’t care enough. B Wash didn’t become great in the nfl. He had ability but not dedication. M Rob was a tweener. R Buch was also, really. Neither was right for our schemes. Not sure who you could say would have become great from that class. Other kids with lesser ratings went on to good nfl careers during the same era. Those kids were poor evals, mostly.


pacusmc said:
But saying shields was “doing his own thing” is just an excuse for what the program was lacking after butch left.
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Shields came here to play WR, after Coker **** the bed at WR recruiting for a couple years. IIRC, shields even called it a ‘business decision.’ He was from Sarasota, no So Fla. He switched late to CB so it isnt surprising that he had a lot to learn there. But that era saw a lot of DBs from UM get drafted, so not sure picking out a comment about Shields is representative.
 
theibisrules said:
**** good post. I don't know how Shannon keeps getting $hitted on, yet you have Coker who lets mr pongo scheme have unfettered access to our players and recruits less than stellar players into the program. Coker is never really vilified on this site. The **** is mind boggling to say the least.
Click to expand...
Its just been so long most folks forget him. He wrecked the program.
 
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