PSA: Butch Davis was 0-7 vs Tom O'Brien and Al Groh at UNC

[Cane1996]

The 1996 loss to ECU was a head scratcher for sure.

The 1999 loss was kind of "one of those games" though. ECU had just had a hurricane come through and destroy their dorms and most of their belongings. The game got moved to NC State's Stadium. They probably didn't get to practice that week.

Miami jumped out to a 20-0 lead I think and went into halftime with a similar score. ECU came out totally loose in the 2nd half, and Kenny Kelly couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. They came back and beat us.

 

[UMFarArcher]

I've been trying to see things the way Threadkilla sees them, but there's no way I'm going to try to stick my head up my a$$ that far.

Of course, for me, it won't fit to start with.

 

[Dwinstitles]

**** butch still smashin yo lady thread?

 

[UMFarArcher]

I always thought Threadkilla was UF.

 

[INCaneFan]

Not one person has addressed much of anything I've said in this thread or the others. One tried, I say tried since the conversation then became an attempt to compare Harbaugh and Butch.

Fact, dudes make excuse after excuse for this guy they never made for any of the last three coaches.

 

[The Franchise]

Dat '01 squad doe

He coach'd da **** out dem boys didnt' he, bro!

 

[The Franchise]

The 1996 loss to ECU was a head scratcher for sure.

The 1999 loss was kind of "one of those games" though. ECU had just had a hurricane come through and destroy their dorms and most of their belongings. The game got moved to NC State's Stadium. They probably didn't get to practice that week.

Miami jumped out to a 20-0 lead I think and went into halftime with a similar score. ECU came out totally loose in the 2nd half, and Kenny Kelly couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. They came back and beat us.

He got his *** tore up by a team that didn't even practice all week and was basically homeless because of a hurricane. That was one of the worst losses of his tenure.

 

[DC Dog Nuts]

These Butch slurpers are shook...lmao.

I'm convinced both of you are fsu fans

I mean you're both just absolutely ridiculous

hillary clinton voters spotted

LOL@Comparing Harbaugh and Butch from a coaching standpoint. Butch was the greatest talent evaluator in CFB history, and might still be great at it, but he is a marginal coach. Harbaugh has kicked *** at every stop and what he did at Stanford and what he's doing at Michigan is phenomenal. Butch Davis has proven that if he has a massive talent advantage, he might win, while Harbaugh can win with the guys who got Brady Hoke fired.

dude was so good san fran wanted him to get the *** out asap

at this point I hope you tools get your wish

hire strong asap

San Fran is doing well without him.

as if they were doing awesome with him before he "left?"

I know you guys LOVE to only acknowledge your own joke of facts tho so I guess only his first few years count eh?

Yes, let's forget the three previous years he spent at San Fran and only focus in on the last year. Even then he fielded a team that finished .500. Too bad the 49ers org is filled with a bunch of liberal fa@@ots.

 

[dookie blaylock]

Careful, you don't want to upset the BBB crowd.

Simply put, there's a ton of holes in his resume. Some of the same things Coker, Shannon, and Al used to get slammed for, Botch gets a pass on. It is completely bizarre until you realize you're on the internet and people talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Are you really comparing Butch to those three losers? Seriously?

I am in the BBB crowd, but see his flaws. Unless we are getting a Patterson or Gundy I want Butch.

Having said that, the other tards on the board (like you) will say stupid ****.

There are some comparisons to be made.

Coker drove the bus off a cliff. Having said that, people wanted him fired for only going 9-3. I was one of those people asking for his head. Butch gets a pass though for three consecutive 8-5 seasons.

Shannon and Al get crap for their record against ACC competition. Both did better than Butch, who had the worst ACC record of them all.

Coker, Shannon, and Al all get dumped on for never winning the ACC, let alone the Coastal. All three finished higher than Butch ever did. Some finished higher than anything Butch ever did more than once, Al being one of them.

Al gets crap for his record against our biggest rival, who he never beat. Butch did the same thing while at UNC, losing four straight to NC State.

Al gets crap from the entire world for having a bunch of NFL talent on the team but little to show for it. Butch had more draft picks than Al by a significant margin and gets a pass.

People say UNC is a basketball school, wtf was Temple? Al didn't impress at Temple when you dig into it, neither did Butch at UNC, but one has excuses the other doesn't.

Coker, Shannon, and Al all were accused of missing out on S.FL talent or recruiting the wrong guys. Do tell how many S.FL recruits Butch landed. He had been a coach here, supposedly understands the culture, but couldn't land one single recruit from Dade all that time?
People talk about suspensions at UNC, excusing away the entire season. People doing that should really read up on who was lost and for how long....it isn't enough to excuse 8-5. It sure doesn't excuse the year prior where UNC went into the season ranked, to only go 8-5.

So you see, Butch gets a pass because of things he did going on a decade and a half ago. We all were on the past three coaches for a lot of the same things and deservedly so. Why does this guy get excuse after excuse made for him? Butch obviously has an eye for talent, nobody questions that. There's a reason he's been nicknamed Botch though.

Butch doesn't get any pass. The reason your post as well as the rest of the anti Butch crowd are failing is you are posting stats out of context. You act like Butch taking over a 3 win team or playing with 30 less scholarships or having a loaded roster suspended for his 4th year is the same thing as taking over a championship team or even on par with taking over some team that won 8 or 9 games the prior year. Until you guys get that, your points are worthless.

Let me ask you what your thoughts are on Harbaugh. IMO, he's a great coach and I'd love to have him be the coach of any team I root for, including the pros. Did you know that Butch's record in his first 3 years at UNC are better than Harbaugh's at Standford? This is a reasonable comparison. Both took over programs at schools with high academic standards, both took programs that were very bad, both even started in the same year. The only difference is Cali is far more fertile than UNC, Standford has more history than UNC in football, and Harbaugh didn't lose his entire team in his 4th year.

Let's play this game Harbaugh 17-20 in 3 years vs Butch 20-18. By your guy's reasoning Harbaugh is trash as well. Year 4 was a huge difference and you're trying to compare Butch in year 4 with his hands tied.

It's not that there are not reasonable Butch supporting posts, it's that the anti Butch crowd is acting the fool right now and ignoring the reasonable posts and ignoring context.

Harbaugh:
Year 1: 4-8
Year 2: 5-7
Year 3: 8-5
Year 4: 12-1 (no suspensions)

Butch:
Year 1: 4-8
Year 2: 8-5
Year 3: 8-5
Year 4: 8-5 (with multiple NFL talent players suspended)

did you miss the last few years' worth of news about unc's academic standards for athletes? and even without those issues, the two schools are not comparable on academic merit. stanford is miles ahead of unc.

also, it's "stanford," not "standford."

 

[poncho0091]

Careful, you don't want to upset the BBB crowd.

Simply put, there's a ton of holes in his resume. Some of the same things Coker, Shannon, and Al used to get slammed for, Botch gets a pass on. It is completely bizarre until you realize you're on the internet and people talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Are you really comparing Butch to those three losers? Seriously?

I am in the BBB crowd, but see his flaws. Unless we are getting a Patterson or Gundy I want Butch.

Having said that, the other tards on the board (like you) will say stupid ****.

There are some comparisons to be made.

Coker drove the bus off a cliff. Having said that, people wanted him fired for only going 9-3. I was one of those people asking for his head. Butch gets a pass though for three consecutive 8-5 seasons.

Shannon and Al get crap for their record against ACC competition. Both did better than Butch, who had the worst ACC record of them all.

Coker, Shannon, and Al all get dumped on for never winning the ACC, let alone the Coastal. All three finished higher than Butch ever did. Some finished higher than anything Butch ever did more than once, Al being one of them.

Al gets crap for his record against our biggest rival, who he never beat. Butch did the same thing while at UNC, losing four straight to NC State.

Al gets crap from the entire world for having a bunch of NFL talent on the team but little to show for it. Butch had more draft picks than Al by a significant margin and gets a pass.

People say UNC is a basketball school, wtf was Temple? Al didn't impress at Temple when you dig into it, neither did Butch at UNC, but one has excuses the other doesn't.

Coker, Shannon, and Al all were accused of missing out on S.FL talent or recruiting the wrong guys. Do tell how many S.FL recruits Butch landed. He had been a coach here, supposedly understands the culture, but couldn't land one single recruit from Dade all that time?
People talk about suspensions at UNC, excusing away the entire season. People doing that should really read up on who was lost and for how long....it isn't enough to excuse 8-5. It sure doesn't excuse the year prior where UNC went into the season ranked, to only go 8-5.

So you see, Butch gets a pass because of things he did going on a decade and a half ago. We all were on the past three coaches for a lot of the same things and deservedly so. Why does this guy get excuse after excuse made for him? Butch obviously has an eye for talent, nobody questions that. There's a reason he's been nicknamed Botch though.

Butch doesn't get any pass. The reason your post as well as the rest of the anti Butch crowd are failing is you are posting stats out of context. You act like Butch taking over a 3 win team or playing with 30 less scholarships or having a loaded roster suspended for his 4th year is the same thing as taking over a championship team or even on par with taking over some team that won 8 or 9 games the prior year. Until you guys get that, your points are worthless.

Let me ask you what your thoughts are on Harbaugh. IMO, he's a great coach and I'd love to have him be the coach of any team I root for, including the pros. Did you know that Butch's record in his first 3 years at UNC are better than Harbaugh's at Standford? This is a reasonable comparison. Both took over programs at schools with high academic standards, both took programs that were very bad, both even started in the same year. The only difference is Cali is far more fertile than UNC, Standford has more history than UNC in football, and Harbaugh didn't lose his entire team in his 4th year.

Let's play this game Harbaugh 17-20 in 3 years vs Butch 20-18. By your guy's reasoning Harbaugh is trash as well. Year 4 was a huge difference and you're trying to compare Butch in year 4 with his hands tied.

It's not that there are not reasonable Butch supporting posts, it's that the anti Butch crowd is acting the fool right now and ignoring the reasonable posts and ignoring context.

Harbaugh:
Year 1: 4-8
Year 2: 5-7
Year 3: 8-5
Year 4: 12-1 (no suspensions)

Butch:
Year 1: 4-8
Year 2: 8-5
Year 3: 8-5
Year 4: 8-5 (with multiple NFL talent players suspended)

did you miss the last few years' worth of news about unc's academic standards for athletes? and even without those issues, the two schools are not comparable on academic merit. stanford is miles ahead of unc.

also, it's "stanford," not "standford."

I'm typing from my phone tool, but thanks for trying to smart.

 

[poncho0091]

Not one person has addressed much of anything I've said in this thread or the others. One tried, I say tried since the conversation then became an attempt to compare Harbaugh and Butch.

Fact, dudes make excuse after excuse for this guy they never made for any of the last three coaches.

Which ones? I specifically used non context facts just like you guys and now they are not good enough? I only made the Harbaugh comparison to show how you idiots need context in an argument. You cannot just blindly use stats.

There are no excuses made here.

Larry had no excuses other than an entitled team which he allowed.

Randy took over a bad team, but proved he could not maintain the success. His year 4 wins went down, and he dealt with no outside factors other than a bad school image.

Golden actually did not get a bad team and had the cloud which he continued to use 2 years after it was over. Golden had it the hardest, but he was also historically bad. Butch without 30 scholarships was better than golden without 6. Butch showed improvement when the sanctions completed. Golden did not. Butch got robbed of a title game appearance. Golden did not.

Butch is not getting a pass, but he showed he could do it already. None of the rest of them did, that's why he is acceptable.

 

[INCaneFan]

Apparently you missed my post on the previous page to your absurd and inaccurate comparison to Butch / Harbaugh and Stanford / UNC.

Everything I posted is fact, not conjecture or opinion. On another thread you claimed year 3 victory for Butch when nobody would objectively. NYou claimed some academic bs, which it is, bs made up by you.

Go find my post and get back to me.

 

[NJshoreCane]

Butch Davis with ranked Miami teams:

0-2 vs East Carolina

Most forget the week after UW in 2000.
It wasn't 'till FSU, 3 games later and 63 games into his stint, that I was thinking finally we've got something here with Butch.

That being said, he did (eventually) get it done at Miami when in full scholly mode.
That's why I have him in my "realistic" top 3.

 

[dookie blaylock]

Are you really comparing Butch to those three losers? Seriously?

I am in the BBB crowd, but see his flaws. Unless we are getting a Patterson or Gundy I want Butch.

Having said that, the other tards on the board (like you) will say stupid ****.

There are some comparisons to be made.

Coker drove the bus off a cliff. Having said that, people wanted him fired for only going 9-3. I was one of those people asking for his head. Butch gets a pass though for three consecutive 8-5 seasons.

Shannon and Al get crap for their record against ACC competition. Both did better than Butch, who had the worst ACC record of them all.

Coker, Shannon, and Al all get dumped on for never winning the ACC, let alone the Coastal. All three finished higher than Butch ever did. Some finished higher than anything Butch ever did more than once, Al being one of them.

Al gets crap for his record against our biggest rival, who he never beat. Butch did the same thing while at UNC, losing four straight to NC State.

Al gets crap from the entire world for having a bunch of NFL talent on the team but little to show for it. Butch had more draft picks than Al by a significant margin and gets a pass.

People say UNC is a basketball school, wtf was Temple? Al didn't impress at Temple when you dig into it, neither did Butch at UNC, but one has excuses the other doesn't.

Coker, Shannon, and Al all were accused of missing out on S.FL talent or recruiting the wrong guys. Do tell how many S.FL recruits Butch landed. He had been a coach here, supposedly understands the culture, but couldn't land one single recruit from Dade all that time?
People talk about suspensions at UNC, excusing away the entire season. People doing that should really read up on who was lost and for how long....it isn't enough to excuse 8-5. It sure doesn't excuse the year prior where UNC went into the season ranked, to only go 8-5.

So you see, Butch gets a pass because of things he did going on a decade and a half ago. We all were on the past three coaches for a lot of the same things and deservedly so. Why does this guy get excuse after excuse made for him? Butch obviously has an eye for talent, nobody questions that. There's a reason he's been nicknamed Botch though.

Butch doesn't get any pass. The reason your post as well as the rest of the anti Butch crowd are failing is you are posting stats out of context. You act like Butch taking over a 3 win team or playing with 30 less scholarships or having a loaded roster suspended for his 4th year is the same thing as taking over a championship team or even on par with taking over some team that won 8 or 9 games the prior year. Until you guys get that, your points are worthless.

Let me ask you what your thoughts are on Harbaugh. IMO, he's a great coach and I'd love to have him be the coach of any team I root for, including the pros. Did you know that Butch's record in his first 3 years at UNC are better than Harbaugh's at Standford? This is a reasonable comparison. Both took over programs at schools with high academic standards, both took programs that were very bad, both even started in the same year. The only difference is Cali is far more fertile than UNC, Standford has more history than UNC in football, and Harbaugh didn't lose his entire team in his 4th year.

Let's play this game Harbaugh 17-20 in 3 years vs Butch 20-18. By your guy's reasoning Harbaugh is trash as well. Year 4 was a huge difference and you're trying to compare Butch in year 4 with his hands tied.

It's not that there are not reasonable Butch supporting posts, it's that the anti Butch crowd is acting the fool right now and ignoring the reasonable posts and ignoring context.

Harbaugh:
Year 1: 4-8
Year 2: 5-7
Year 3: 8-5
Year 4: 12-1 (no suspensions)

Butch:
Year 1: 4-8
Year 2: 8-5
Year 3: 8-5
Year 4: 8-5 (with multiple NFL talent players suspended)

did you miss the last few years' worth of news about unc's academic standards for athletes? and even without those issues, the two schools are not comparable on academic merit. stanford is miles ahead of unc.

also, it's "stanford," not "standford."

I'm typing from my phone tool, but thanks for trying to smart.

you're typing from your phone and still got it wrong twice. autocorrect wouldn't spell it like that. you're just an idiot.

 

[The Franchise]

There are some comparisons to be made.

Coker drove the bus off a cliff. Having said that, people wanted him fired for only going 9-3. I was one of those people asking for his head. Butch gets a pass though for three consecutive 8-5 seasons.

Shannon and Al get crap for their record against ACC competition. Both did better than Butch, who had the worst ACC record of them all.

Coker, Shannon, and Al all get dumped on for never winning the ACC, let alone the Coastal. All three finished higher than Butch ever did. Some finished higher than anything Butch ever did more than once, Al being one of them.

Al gets crap for his record against our biggest rival, who he never beat. Butch did the same thing while at UNC, losing four straight to NC State.

Al gets crap from the entire world for having a bunch of NFL talent on the team but little to show for it. Butch had more draft picks than Al by a significant margin and gets a pass.

People say UNC is a basketball school, wtf was Temple? Al didn't impress at Temple when you dig into it, neither did Butch at UNC, but one has excuses the other doesn't.

Coker, Shannon, and Al all were accused of missing out on S.FL talent or recruiting the wrong guys. Do tell how many S.FL recruits Butch landed. He had been a coach here, supposedly understands the culture, but couldn't land one single recruit from Dade all that time?
People talk about suspensions at UNC, excusing away the entire season. People doing that should really read up on who was lost and for how long....it isn't enough to excuse 8-5. It sure doesn't excuse the year prior where UNC went into the season ranked, to only go 8-5.

So you see, Butch gets a pass because of things he did going on a decade and a half ago. We all were on the past three coaches for a lot of the same things and deservedly so. Why does this guy get excuse after excuse made for him? Butch obviously has an eye for talent, nobody questions that. There's a reason he's been nicknamed Botch though.

Butch doesn't get any pass. The reason your post as well as the rest of the anti Butch crowd are failing is you are posting stats out of context. You act like Butch taking over a 3 win team or playing with 30 less scholarships or having a loaded roster suspended for his 4th year is the same thing as taking over a championship team or even on par with taking over some team that won 8 or 9 games the prior year. Until you guys get that, your points are worthless.

Let me ask you what your thoughts are on Harbaugh. IMO, he's a great coach and I'd love to have him be the coach of any team I root for, including the pros. Did you know that Butch's record in his first 3 years at UNC are better than Harbaugh's at Standford? This is a reasonable comparison. Both took over programs at schools with high academic standards, both took programs that were very bad, both even started in the same year. The only difference is Cali is far more fertile than UNC, Standford has more history than UNC in football, and Harbaugh didn't lose his entire team in his 4th year.

Let's play this game Harbaugh 17-20 in 3 years vs Butch 20-18. By your guy's reasoning Harbaugh is trash as well. Year 4 was a huge difference and you're trying to compare Butch in year 4 with his hands tied.

It's not that there are not reasonable Butch supporting posts, it's that the anti Butch crowd is acting the fool right now and ignoring the reasonable posts and ignoring context.

Harbaugh:
Year 1: 4-8
Year 2: 5-7
Year 3: 8-5
Year 4: 12-1 (no suspensions)

Butch:
Year 1: 4-8
Year 2: 8-5
Year 3: 8-5
Year 4: 8-5 (with multiple NFL talent players suspended)

did you miss the last few years' worth of news about unc's academic standards for athletes? and even without those issues, the two schools are not comparable on academic merit. stanford is miles ahead of unc.

also, it's "stanford," not "standford."

I'm typing from my phone tool, but thanks for trying to smart.

you're typing from your phone and still got it wrong twice. autocorrect wouldn't spell it like that. you're just an idiot.

The old auto-correct excuse. I'm not an idiot; it's my phone!

 

[Ray Ciss]

For those of you who do not recall Davis' first tenure at Miami, here are a few key points.

- He took the job at a time when the program was about dead; in fact SI had published a story advocating UM shut down the football program.
- He was short dozens of scholarships for multiple years.
- He knew there was a lack of recruit interest in Miami, so he used his innate talent evaluation prowess to find "diamonds in the rough" (e.g., Ken Dorsey, Dan Morgan, Reggie Wayne, Ed Reed, Santana Moss, etc).
- Two years before his best season (1999 or 2000) fans were flying banners "National Champs to National Chumps" above the Orange Bowl.
- He was one of the lowest paid coaches in all of college football.
- The facilities were the worst among D1 football programs.

Through all that he stuck with the program, managed a facilities upgrade and slowly compiled a group of players that would go on to dominate college football for 2 years. The only major knock on Davis was his game day coaching ability (halftime adjustments were nonexistent); although I think that was on his coordinators as much as it was on him.

Hire this man and let him fix this disaster again, perhaps let Mario be a coordinator and earn the HC position when Butch retires.

 

[Canezum5]

Two words... Ad nauseum.....

 

[Ray Ciss]

Two words... Ad nauseum.....

Yea, you're probably one of the 'new' fans that came around during that 2001 NC team Butch built. Seems you don't appreciate what he did for this program.

 

[77cane]

There is some good news for all the BBB circle jerk crew: Butch was 1-0 vs Mike London at UNC.

Please quit bein a fvckin p*ssy .. BBB

15-17 in ACC games, 0-7 vs Tom O'Brien and Al Groh.

Butch had a team decimated by the loss of 30 scholly's while on a devastating probation.
This comparing his record against certain coaches is rediculous
All we care about is the end product
At NC he took over a losing team and the suspensions may have deprived him of a championship run.
At Miami we know the end result.

 

[Canezum5]

Two words... Ad nauseum.....

Yea, you're probably one of the 'new' fans that came around during that 2001 NC team Butch built. Seems you don't appreciate what he did for this program.

Then that would probably make me a butch fan....So, your point is?


For the record. I'm all for hiring butch. But when every other thread is stuff that every Canes fan already knows it gets tiring.

There is a DocU dedicated to the man for christs sake. Leave it alone. The debate is repetitive AF. Repeating the same retired info.