PRO CANES 2020

Mandingo

“My name is my name!”
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,008
We are about to have a top 10 pick, uniformly regarded as the best pass rusher in this year‘s draft.

He was a 3*.

The League was and has always only ever been about talent. None of the guys who’ve been cut over the last few days had elite production or talent, most should’ve stayed another year. Were they good enough to play in the League? Sure. But there are dozens of good enough guys who've just been cut.

You can’t be good enough and stay in the NFL. In my opinion the next 2-5 years will have a much higher hit rate in the league than the previous.

The next 2-5 years? That would be a total of 7-10 years that Diaz has been around. Good gawd. Miami having to wait that long to see real player development is unheard of for a DC. And Greg was a 3* what? Recruit or talent?

What was Chad Thomas? What was Johnson coming out as a DE. What was Finley coming out? Want to list every 3-4 star we have signed since Diaz arrived?

You can pick and choose all you want. The RESULTS speak for themselves. And quite frankly, you might want to talk to our current WR coach about PLAYER DEVELOPMENT before you just downplay what that means. It’s huge.

Coaching matters. Lashlee, Justice and Likens will prove this yet a again in Miami.

The DEFENSIVE staff Diaz put together after initially being hired was BUSH league. That’s just a fact. We’re seeing it play out. Greg’s 1st round status doesn’t change that. That DL coach is going into his 2nd year at Miami.
 

JD08

Rolling in my 5.0
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
12,734
The next 2-5 years? That would be a total of 7-10 years that Diaz has been around. Good gawd. Miami having to wait that long to see real player development is unheard of for a DC. And Greg was a 3* what? Recruit or talent?

What was Chad Thomas? What was Johnson coming out as a DE. What was Finley coming out? Want to list every 3-4 star we have signed since Diaz arrived?

You can pick and choose all you want. The RESULTS speak for themselves. And quite frankly, you might want to talk to our current WR coach about PLAYER DEVELOPMENT before you just downplay what that means. It’s huge.

Coaching matters. Lashlee, Justice and Likens will prove this yet a again in Miami.

The DEFENSIVE staff Diaz put together after initially being hired was BUSH league. That’s just a fact. We’re seeing it play out. Greg’s 1st round status doesn’t change that. That DL coach is going into his 2nd year at Miami.
Losing a half a dozen games hurts recruiting, that means you're not getting the players you'd prefer to. It's not just O or D. We haven't loaded talent on either side, but we've done good enough based on our record. Win, and you'll see players with more potential come here, stay to be developed, then ball out in the league.
 

Mandingo

“My name is my name!”
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,008
Losing a half a dozen games hurts recruiting, that means you're not getting the players you'd prefer to. It's not just O or D. We haven't loaded talent on either side, but we've done good enough based on our record. Win, and you'll see players with more potential come here, stay to be developed, then ball out in the league.

And here’s where our fans applaud the classes that we sign vs what UVA, VT, BC, Pittsburgh (ect) signs, and then fail to recognize when those teams have produced top 3 round picks on defense with less overall talent than Miami.

Patke, Rumph, Banda, and Diaz collectively have never developed shyte in regards to 1st Round level talent - or top 3 rounds. That’s the truth. That was a BUSH LEAGUE staff Manny put together because he wanted to be the smartest guy in the room And have his boyz next to him. The results have been all smoke and mirrors.

Will that change going forward with multiple Top 10 classes. Very likely. But why hasn’t that hindered other ACC teams not called Clemson?

Even Likens spoke specifically about finding a NO-star and developing him into a 1st rounder. Coastal teams have even done this.. (top 3 rounds) several times. Miami fans want everything but the truth. We can’t have it both ways.
 

Mandingo

“My name is my name!”
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,008
I’ll also say this - hopefully having REED around helps close the “coaching” gap for us and the player development gap. Miami has a standard. Miami set the bar for everybody else. We need this staff to produce on that level. The defensive staff has been here long enough. No excuses.
 

JD08

Rolling in my 5.0
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
12,734
And here’s where our fans applaud the classes that we sign vs what UVA, VT, BC, Pittsburgh (ect) signs, and then fail to recognize when those teams have produced top 3 round picks on defense with less overall talent than Miami.

Patke, Rumph, Banda, and Diaz collectively have never developed shyte in regards to 1st Round level talent - or top 3 rounds. That’s the truth. That was a BUSH LEAGUE staff Manny put together because he wanted to be the smartest guy in the room And have his boyz next to him. The results have been all smoke and mirrors.

Will that change going forward with multiple Top 10 classes. Very likely. But why hasn’t that hindered other ACC teams not called Clemson?

Even Likens spoke specifically about finding a NO-star and developing him into a 1st rounder. Coastal teams have even done this.. (top 3 rounds) several times. Miami fans want everything but the truth. We can’t have it both ways.
You're speaking of stars, I'm speaking of getting the people they want. Look at @Liberty City El's picks in the Recruiting Board. They're not all 5 stars, some are seriously overlooked. Look at Texas, Texas A&M, Tennessee, Auburn, and a few others that usually recruit very well. They are all in a similar boat that we are.

UF fans seem to think recruiting ranking is more important than anything else. Others point to former player's success in the NFL as a barometer of their program as if what happens in college doesn't matter. Saban, Swinney, Meyer, et al couldn't give a rat's ass about how their players perform in the NFL or even where they get drafted other than the impact on recruiting. They care about winning as many college football games as possible. NFL success is just a useful bi-product of that.
 

dantheman349

Recruit
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
629
No way he was starting over Myles Garrett, Adrian Clayborn and Olivier Vernon.

To be honest Chad has a nonchalant disposition, a jokester on the team which was cool to the last regime, but Stefanski and his staff didn’t draft him. IMO, he struggled to separate and get to the QB a lot and I’m pulling for him as a Cane in Cleveland.
They are saying that two DEs outplayed him: Eli Ankou and Porter Gustin??? Yup they were handpicked by the new staff.
I hear you I’m just telling you what I hear before Dorsey left that he was in a prime spot to start
 

Rellyrell

All-ACC
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
16,131
Will they ever stay long enough to be developed
So what’s the difference between Bama, OSU, Clemson, LSU, Texas A&M, UGA, etc. players leaving withIn 3 yrs and killing it in the NFL & our guys? Chad was a 4 yr guy; so was Chick, Michael Jackson, Trent Harris, etc....so maybe it doesn’t have anything to do w/ how long players stay when it comes to development.
 

Rellyrell

All-ACC
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
16,131
We are about to have a top 10 pick, uniformly regarded as the best pass rusher in this year‘s draft.

He was a 3*.

The League was and has always only ever been about talent. None of the guys who’ve been cut over the last few days had elite production or talent, most should’ve stayed another year. Were they good enough to play in the League? Sure. But there are dozens of good enough guys who've just been cut.

You can’t be good enough and stay in the NFL. In my opinion the next 2-5 years will have a much higher hit rate in the league than the previous.
U know I love u, my g....but we’ve been saying this rhetoric for a while:

Just wait to Shannon get his players
Just wait til Golden get his players
Just wait til Richt cleans house and get his players
Just wait til Diaz gets his players

Wait & see has been our M.O; here’s the flaw in the statement:
These are Diaz’s players, since 2016. This has been his def scheme since 2016. Diaz may be the new “head coach”, but make no mistake about it, these have been his guys since 2016. We have 5 yrs of data w/ him.
 

Mandingo

“My name is my name!”
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,008
You're speaking of stars, I'm speaking of getting the people they want. Look at @Liberty City El's picks in the Recruiting Board. They're not all 5 stars, some are seriously overlooked. Look at Texas, Texas A&M, Tennessee, Auburn, and a few others that usually recruit very well. They are all in a similar boat that we are.

UF fans seem to think recruiting ranking is more important than anything else. Others point to former player's success in the NFL as a barometer of their program as if what happens in college doesn't matter. Saban, Swinney, Meyer, et al couldn't give a rat's ass about how their players perform in the NFL or even where they get drafted other than the impact on recruiting. They care about winning as many college football games as possible. NFL success is just a useful bi-product of that.

I’m talking about player development. Other ACC teams that produce top 3 Round picks (not including Clemson) don’t get who they want as well - and have less to work with than Miami. Hell... take a look at last years draft and you’ll find all types of low level teams producing more NFL talent than Manny’s no gap.

I’m not sure how Miami fans can argue otherwise considering Patke, Banda, Rumph and Diaz have no record of developing great/elite NFL talent.
 

JD08

Rolling in my 5.0
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
12,734
I’m talking about player development. Other ACC teams that produce top 3 Round picks (not including Clemson) don’t get who they want as well - and have less to work with than Miami. Hell... take a look at last years draft and you’ll find all types of low level teams producing more NFL talent than Manny’s no gap.

I’m not sure how Miami fans can argue otherwise considering Patke, Banda, Rumph and Diaz have no record of developing great/elite NFL talent.
I get that, but my point is who cares about stars or developing NFL talent. It's a college team. For years the argument was we were staying with pro style because that's what they play in the NFL and kids will want to come here to become NFL talent.

The issue defensively is that our defense has been good enough. Nobody's getting fired with a defense that's performing well enough.

I do agree that we have not developed talent very well. That ended with Butch and has never recovered. Hopefully our offense will be the kickstart we need.
 

Mandingo

“My name is my name!”
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,008
I get that, but my point is who cares about stars or developing NFL talent. It's a college team. For years the argument was we were staying with pro style because that's what they play in the NFL and kids will want to come here to become NFL talent.

The issue defensively is that our defense has been good enough. Nobody's getting fired with a defense that's performing well enough.

I do agree that we have not developed talent very well. That ended with Butch and has never recovered. Hopefully our offense will be the kickstart we need.

Developing NFL level talent has ALWAYS been a Miami thing. I’m not sure why you’re asking why it’s a big deal now. It’s a MIAMI thing through and through. You should understand.

Also - if teams like UF produce 1st rounders at CB and we keep producing UDFAs, we’re going to lose 5-star head to head battles because kids project themselves as the next “one”. We’re still eating off of the Ed Reed and Sean Taylor hype at Safety. That’s the game.

It matters.
 

Supacane954

Freshman
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
158
I get that, but my point is who cares about stars or developing NFL talent. It's a college team. For years the argument was we were staying with pro style because that's what they play in the NFL and kids will want to come here to become NFL talent.

The issue defensively is that our defense has been good enough. Nobody's getting fired with a defense that's performing well enough.

I do agree that we have not developed talent very well. That ended with Butch and has never recovered. Hopefully our offense will be the kickstart we need.
I disagree Rumph and Banda has shown the ability to get the best out of talent they have at corner, and saftey. Less talented (according to recent draft playing at a great level).. Micheal Jackson was all world here at Miami but wasn’t even projected to be a corner same thing with Trajan Bandy
 

JD08

Rolling in my 5.0
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
12,734
Developing NFL level talent has ALWAYS been a Miami thing. I’m not sure why you’re asking why it’s a big deal now. It’s a MIAMI thing through and through. You should understand.

Also - if teams like UF produce 1st rounders at CB and we keep producing UDFAs, we’re going to lose 5-star head to head battles because kids project themselves as the next “one”. We’re still eating off of the Ed Reed and Sean Taylor hype at Safety. That’s the game.

It matters.
They're not mutually exclusive, but college football championships should be the number one priority over NFL preparation. Did Ken Dorsey and Gino Torretta suck because they had minimal NFL careers? Most college football players, even on good teams will never see an NFL snap.
 

IndayArtHauz

Knoxville Baby Maker
Staff member
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
8,495
U know I love u, my g....but we’ve been saying this rhetoric for a while:

Just wait to Shannon get his players
Just wait til Golden get his players
Just wait til Richt cleans house and get his players
Just wait til Diaz gets his players

Wait & see has been our M.O; here’s the flaw in the statement:
These are Diaz’s players, since 2016. This has been his def scheme since 2016. Diaz may be the new “head coach”, but make no mistake about it, these have been his guys since 2016. We have 5 yrs of data w/ him.
Hold on, what’s being discussed here? (You’re my dude too, RR, haha)

If people are criticizing Manny’s defensive performance overall, I’m out. That’s a conversation that I want no part of. People expecting a modern defense to average sub-10ppg, especially with offenses that can’t stay on the field, can debate themselves blue in the face. I’m more than happy with Diaz’ defenses on the whole.

If we are discussing the performance of his players in the NFL then fine, it could be better. But that’s not a criticism of his defensive scheme or its usefulness in preparing guys for the league. I don’t think this era of his guys being “just ok” in the NFL is that surprising, because until literally this class the defensive recruiting has been good but not great. Thats where the criticism has been warranted and where the results are coming from, because very few of these guys are special, I’m sorry. That’s been my personal criticism of his defense and staff thereof: they have not recruited elite guys.

Run through the list of players that have been cut and ask yourself if any of them are truly shocking, or a bust. Not a one is to me. Finley didn’t make a team? Ok. Bandy? No surprise. JoJack? Thought he would’ve made a roster but what did he show for me to be shocked he didn’t? Guy was good here, but he wasn’t a GR15. McIntosh should’ve stayed another year, Mike Jackson was good but never an All Conference guy. The guy who has surprised me over the last two years is Willis, because we witnessed his ability to take over a game. He was special.

My point is not that Manny should get more time for “his guys”, it’s that he’s done well enough in college with good but great talents across the board. He’s yet to have a monster D with NFL guys at every position. Not recruiting those level of guys is on him, but his defense is not some NFL mismatch like @Mandingo is trying to make the case for.

I think it has more to do with the talent than the development, but if you want to move the slider farther to the development side then alright, that’s cool. It isn't his scheme though, that’s one of the silliest things I’ve heard since “no one wants to play striker.”
 

JgDaCane

All-ACC
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
9,728
Jeff Thomas cut. He made the biggest mistake of all leaving. He woulda went nuts in this offense. Oh well. Anybody who fucks us & leaves early to get picked as a 6th rounder or UDFA I have no sympathy for.
 

305to954

All American
Joined
Jul 25, 2018
Messages
10,453
@RVACane ...Another Troll...As if we didn't know this yesterday......Get rid of his azz now...before we have to listen to more of his "Day Late" Troll BS...
A live look @caneinorlando 😂
1599425835201.gif
 
Joined
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Messages
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Jeff Howe
@jeffphowe
It doesn't sound like Jeff Thomas will be joining the Patriots practice squad at the moment, at least not among the early wave of transactions.
1:16 PM · Sep 6, 2020
 
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