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Post Dorsey: Miami QBs vs Ranked Opponents

YankeesCane said:
Dorsey did exactly what a QB is supposed to do. He read the defense, knew where to go, and got the ball into the hands of play makers

All in an era before the shogun, spead

Dorsey was what a QB is supposed to be
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You're right. No doubt

He also had the benefit of rarely ever being touched with a generational LT, All-American Center, and the rest of the line was very solid.

Surrounded by multiple HOFers, others making HOF ballots, and perennial all-pros... at RB, WR, and TE. Multiple at each position.

No one in the history of college football had an easier job playing QB

Dorsey in his prime would be average as **** in this offense with the receivers, RBs, and TEs that we have. But he would have beat GT this year.
 
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JayCane20 said:
You're right. No doubt

He also had the benefit of rarely ever being touched with a generational LT, All-American Center, and the rest of the line was very solid.

Surrounded by multiple HOFers, others making HOF ballots, and perennial all-pros... at RB, WR, and TE. Multiple at each position.

No one in the history of college football had an easier job playing QB

Dorsey in his prime would be average as **** in this offense with the receivers, RBs, and TEs that we have. But he would have beat GT this year.
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In the last few years I think Ohio St QBs have had it easier.

Playing in a garbage slow Conference throwng to a bevy of NFL WRs in huge open windows
 
SWFLHurricane said:
I wasn't even going to respond to his stupidity....
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IMO Dorsey is a top 5 college QB of all time. Don’t think it’s really close.

Edit: This was in terms of resume, not pure talent.

- highest win % ever by QB in modern era
- 2X national champ (yeah I said it)
- 1st team AA
- 2X conference POTY
- 3X conference champ
- Longest win streak ever by QB in modern era
 
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YankeesCane said:
In the last few years I think Ohio St QBs have had it easier.

Playing in a garbage slow Conference throwng to a bevy of NFL WRs in huge open windows
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That's about the best comparison. OSU went a couple years with bad OLs, that's about it.

But the WRs at their disposal with good RBs is about as close as it will come

That and Burrow having Chase, Jefferson, Terrace Marshall, Thad Moss, and Helaire in 2019. Still not the same. Not even close across the board really.
 
Id still rather have a Dorsey at QB than any 5 star athletic player who cannpt read a defense or distribute the ball accordingly

Its why I still prefer, and maybe wrongfully think, Miami is still better off playing what was a pro style offense, QB under center, play action type scheme

But I know thats not entirely possible in this modern age of QB play
 
JayCane20 said:
That's about the best comparison. OSU went a couple years with bad OLs, that's about it.

But the WRs at their disposal with good RBs is about as close as it will come

That and Burrow having Chase, Jefferson, Terrace Marshall, Thad Moss, and Helaire in 2019. Still not the same. Not even close across the board really.
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I’d argue Leinhart had a very easy journey as well.
 
MumbleRap said:
Here’s the stats for any QB to start 5 or more games vs top 25 opponents after Dorsey graduated.

I’ll let you draw your own conclusions

Brock Berlin -11 games (8-3 record)
- 210 YPG, 11TDs, 16INTs
- 22 PPG

Kyle Wright - 12 games (3-9 record)
- 175 YPG, 10TDs, 12INTs
- 15 PPG

Jacory Harris - 10 games (5-5 record)
- 220 YPG, 16 TDs & 13INTs
- 24 PPG

Stephen Morris - 7 games (1-6 record)
185 YPG, 6 TDs, 7ints
- 12 PPG (yikes)

Brad Kaaya - 8 games (1-7 record)
265 YPG, 17TDs & 8INTs
- 21 PPG

Malik Rosier - 6 games (3-3 record)
230 YPG, 10TDs, 11INTs
- 24 PPG

Van Dyke - 5 starts (3-2 record)
340 YPG, 16TDs, 3INTs
- 31 PPG
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TVD's overall record is 13-11... Not good enough.
 
I think there's too many confounding variables for these stats to tell us anything worth a **** besides we are not good at having QBs
 
When people start porsting down Dorsey, you gotta exit the thread.

Wow. Ignorance. Ask his OL about how well he’d slide protection. Ask his WR how many times he moved and held safeties off their routes. Ask McGahee how many times he ripped off a long TD because Dorsey checked them out of a bad play.

The guy didn’t have all that talent around him in HS and his tapes were ******* awesome! The last true born to be a QB we had.
 
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simplycanes said:
When people start porsting down Dorsey, you gotta exit the thread.

Wow. Ignorance. Ask his OL about how well he’d slide protection. Ask his WR how many times he moved and held safeties off their routes. Ask McGahee how many times he ripped off a long TD because Dorsey checked them out of a bad play.

The guy didn’t have all that talent around him in HS and his tapes were ******* awesome! The last true born to be a QB we had.
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I won't even respond to the original Moron who said KD was overrated because he had a team with an incredible amount of talent. There's not ONE UM player from 2000-2002 who would say anything remotely like that.
 
Does anyone think Emory Williams can be different here than the rest since Dorsey? I certainly hope so. We seem to have better coaches now than ever before, but we are just not seeing results on the field yet against good competition outside of Texas A&M.
 
JayCane20 said:
You're right. No doubt

He also had the benefit of rarely ever being touched with a generational LT, All-American Center, and the rest of the line was very solid.

Surrounded by multiple HOFers, others making HOF ballots, and perennial all-pros... at RB, WR, and TE. Multiple at each position.

No one in the history of college football had an easier job playing QB

Dorsey in his prime would be average as **** in this offense with the receivers, RBs, and TEs that we have. But he would have beat GT this year.
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You watch a play like this...



And, you see that Dorsey "rarely ever being touched" was, in part, due to how quickly he processed and made decisions. On that amazing play that brought incredible joy to every Canes fan, you can see the LDE *quickly* closing in. Dorsey hits his back foot and releases the ball. And, accurately. FSU had speed at LB, so it's not like Shockey was cruising with 5 yards of separation. It all matters.

I think you're underestimating and understating the value of Dorsey's ability to process and pull the trigger. Internal clocks are difficult to measure, but their benefits are plentiful.

"Average as **** in this offense?" I doubt it.
 
LuCane said:
You watch a play like this...



And, you see that Dorsey "rarely ever being touched" was, in part, due to how quickly he processed and made decisions. On that amazing play that brought incredible joy to every Canes fan, you can see the LDE *quickly* closing in. Dorsey hits his back foot and releases the ball. And, accurately. FSU had speed at LB, so it's not like Shockey was cruising with 5 yards of separation. It all matters.

I think you're underestimating and understating the value of Dorsey's ability to process and pull the trigger. Internal clocks are difficult to measure, but their benefits are plentiful.

"Average as **** in this offense?" I doubt it.
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All speculation and no way it'll ever be validated.

There's a reason he was a 7th rounder and never played meaningful snaps in the NFL and still threw like 20 picks.

Love Ken as much as anyone and that was my childhood hero but I'm not dense enough to say he wasn't the ultimate beneficiary of playing with elite talent. (don't even think elite is a fair word for it)
 
JayCane20 said:
All speculation and no way it'll ever be validated.

There's a reason he was a 7th rounder and never played meaningful snaps in the NFL and still threw like 20 picks.

Love Ken as much as anyone and that was my childhood hero but I'm not dense enough to say he wasn't the ultimate beneficiary of playing with elite talent. (don't even think elite is a fair word for it)
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That's an odd retort considering your conclusion (he'd be "average as ****") and the reality that you offered zero evidence to back it up.

At the very least, I offered you a counterexample: a play that was representative of the types of quick decisions against top defenses Dorsey consistently made over his career at Miami.

There's a reason why he was a 7th rounder, sure. It doesn't have anything to do with whether he'd be "average as ****" in this offense. There are plenty of guys who excel in college who simply don't have the physical attributes to excel in the NFL, and their pro draft status largely depends on those attributes. With that said, he played in the league, regardless of where he was drafted, and eventually started 13 games at QB in the NFL.

Being the "ultimate beneficiary" of playing with elite talent and being a capable trigger man who'd succeed in a more open spread offense with an OL that often gives TVD 4-5 second to throw the ball are not mutually exclusive.
 
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LuCane said:
That's an odd retort considering your conclusion (he'd be "average as ****") and the reality that you offered zero evidence to back it up.

At the very least, I offered you a counterexample: a play that was representative of the types of quick decisions against top defenses Dorsey consistently made over his career at Miami.

There's a reason why he was a 7th rounder, sure. It doesn't have anything to do with whether he'd be "average as ****" in this offense. There are plenty of guys who excel in college who simply don't have the physical attributes to excel in the NFL, and their pro draft status largely depends on those attributes. With that said, he played in the league, regardless of where he was drafted, and eventually started 13 games at QB in the NFL.

Being the "ultimate beneficiary" of playing with elite talent and being a capable trigger man who'd succeed in a more open spread offense with an OL that often gives TVD 4-5 second to throw the ball are not mutually exclusive.
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I gave you my opinion. I'm wasn't really interested in typing a full retort to it since its a completely redundant scenario.

There's nothing you or I can prove by comparing a QB handing the ball to James Jackson, Portis, Davenport, McGahee, and Gore and throwing to Reggie Wayne, Santana Moss, Dre, Shockey, Winslow, etc. 8 All pros in his supporting cast of weapons with a future NFL HC as his OC for 2 years compared to a guy handing to Henry Parrish and throwing to Xavier Restrepo and Jacolby George. There aren't even 8 draft picks on the entire offense, let alone 8 all-pro WRs/RBs/TEs.. plus a career G5 OC being his 3rd OC in 3 years and the amount of hits he's taken compared to Dorsey in his 3 years.

Ken Dorsey is undoubtedly the better QB when it comes to reading a defense, leadership, a quick release, processing and progressions, and most importantly the better gamesmanship and edge.

TVD is better in every other area including arm strength, accuracy (completes 65-70% vs Ken completing sub 60%), athleticism, etc.

Dorsey beats GT 2 weeks ago because he probably makes the call himself and takes a knee. He had those types of games himself... against Louisiana Tech in 2000 or 2001 throwing 3 picks trying to give it away and then the game that I had flashbacks during GT.. against BC in 2001 throwing 4 picks and almost blowing that one. Gore fumbled in our own territory only up 12-7.
 
JayCane20 said:
I gave you my opinion. I'm wasn't really interested in typing a full retort to it since its a completely redundant scenario.

There's nothing you or I can prove by comparing a QB handing the ball to James Jackson, Portis, Davenport, McGahee, and Gore and throwing to Reggie Wayne, Santana Moss, Dre, Shockey, Winslow, etc. 8 All pros in his supporting cast of weapons with a future NFL HC as his OC for 2 years compared to a guy handing to Henry Parrish and throwing to Xavier Restrepo and Jacolby George. There aren't even 8 draft picks on the entire offense, let alone 8 all-pro WRs/RBs/TEs.. plus a career G5 OC being his 3rd OC in 3 years and the amount of hits he's taken compared to Dorsey in his 3 years.

Ken Dorsey is undoubtedly the better QB when it comes to reading a defense, leadership, a quick release, processing and progressions, and most importantly the better gamesmanship and edge.

TVD is better in every other area including arm strength, accuracy (completes 65-70% vs Ken completing sub 60%), athleticism, etc.

Dorsey beats GT 2 weeks ago because he probably makes the call himself and takes a knee. He had those types of games himself... against Louisiana Tech in 2000 or 2001 throwing 3 picks trying to give it away and then the game that I had flashbacks during GT.. against BC in 2001 throwing 4 picks and almost blowing that one. Gore fumbled in our own territory only up 12-7.
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Fair enough. We seem to value specific QB attributes differently and how those impact output (at the college level).
 
JayCane20 said:
You're right. No doubt

He also had the benefit of rarely ever being touched with a generational LT, All-American Center, and the rest of the line was very solid.

Surrounded by multiple HOFers, others making HOF ballots, and perennial all-pros... at RB, WR, and TE. Multiple at each position.

No one in the history of college football had an easier job playing QB

Dorsey in his prime would be average as **** in this offense with the receivers, RBs, and TEs that we have. But he would have beat GT this year.
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No, go watch the WVU game in 02. He stayed in for awhile with young Jolla, Moore, and Winslow and got them the ball like Johnson, Beard, Jones, or Sands was out there.. The guy had one of the best minds of any quarterback that has ever played college football. Definitely not average as long as he had some protection.

While McKinnie was elite, the rest of that offensive line definitely was not considered superstars. They were an elite unit, but guys like Butler, Winston, and Myers ended up having more success in the NFL than Romberg, Gonzalez, Sherko, etc. Martin Bibla had a nice career as well. Dorsey would have made the 03 line look better than what Brock made it look for sure. I think Dorsey is underrated in actually making the 01 line better than they probably were.
 
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