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Position battle - LB

Who do you want to start at linebacker next to Toure for the Miami Hurricanes?

  • Total voters
    117
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Calinative said:
Yall are ******* trippin if you think Toure and Smth aren’t going to get torched in coverage. Sure they have straight line speed. But imo they’re not very good rushing the passer either. Pure downhill Run D players.

We need the young guys to play and develop. Period.
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Can you point to a single time in the playoffs where those two got "torched" in the passing game?🤣
What are you even talking about?
And Toure is a very good blitzer, especially in the A gap.
Our defense was great last year so I must've missed all this torching that Mo and Smith were on the field for. Was Wes Fred Warner or did I miss something.
I'm not saying Mo and Smith are great in the passing game but the overwhelming majority of college LBs aren't.
CJ Allen, Hill, Trotter are consensus top 5 MLB in the draft and that's the first thing you'll hear about them. They're not good in the passing game.
Tell me where and when they got torched?
 
Sabetta said:
Can you point to a single time in the playoffs where those two got "torched" in the passing game?🤣
What are you even talking about?
And Toure is a very good blitzer, especially in the A gap.
Our defense was great last year so I must've missed all this torching that Mo and Smith were on the field for. Was Wes Fred Warner or did I miss something.
I'm not saying Mo and Smith are great in the passing game but the overwhelming majority of college LBs aren't.
CJ Allen, Hill, Trotter are consensus top 5 MLB in the draft and that's the first thing you'll hear about them. They're not good in the passing game.
Tell me where and when they got torched?
Click to expand...

Agree…I don't think we are in an ideal spot at LB, and again I think it's just a low ceiling with Smith, I may be wrong. Yes coverage thing was an issue during the regular season but it really got better as the year went on. In November and the entire playoffs the LBs really held up in coverage against some good offense.
 
skeeter said:
Agree…I don't think we are in an ideal spot at LB, and again I think it's just a low ceiling with Smith, I may be wrong. Yes coverage thing was an issue during the regular season but it really got better as the year went on. In November and the entire playoffs the LBs really held up in coverage against some good offense.
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It also was a new defense. Thomas struggled a ton, especially tackling in space. He blew 2 huge plays in the ND game. Lucas, Poyser and Thomas blew coverage a couple times in the playoffs too. It happens. My reaction is to getting "torched".
On top of learning a new D both were coming off injury.
 
Dwinstitles said:
Needed that spring portal cause of it, was always good to have that portal to see what you need when you actually saw it in practice
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Mario even said today he was fan of spring portal lol.. We used to kill it in spring portal, I remember after last spring we said nah this defense aint it and basically went and got some heavy pieces.. Scott, Thomas, Mo, gave us a hard hitting identity the team lacked.. Keelan Marion, Martinez the year before.. sheesh..

We completely whiffed on TE and everyone is starting to see it now.. and LB could have used Ulave or Biles for sure..
 
skyman said:
Mario even said today he was fan of spring portal lol.. We used to kill it in spring portal, I remember after last spring we said nah this defense aint it and basically went and got some heavy pieces.. Scott, Thomas, Mo, gave us a hard hitting identity the team lacked.. Keelan Marion, Martinez the year before.. sheesh..

We completely whiffed on TE and everyone is starting to see it now.. and LB could have used Ulave or Biles for sure..
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Yea he said it was cause of injury but its because of evals, if they miss they can fill the misses.
 
Sabetta said:
Can you point to a single time in the playoffs where those two got "torched" in the passing game?🤣
What are you even talking about?
And Toure is a very good blitzer, especially in the A gap.
Our defense was great last year so I must've missed all this torching that Mo and Smith were on the field for. Was Wes Fred Warner or did I miss something.
I'm not saying Mo and Smith are great in the passing game but the overwhelming majority of college LBs aren't.
CJ Allen, Hill, Trotter are consensus top 5 MLB in the draft and that's the first thing you'll hear about them. They're not good in the passing game.
Tell me where and when they got torched?
Click to expand...
Do you accept stats?
Toure had the most yards allowed on the defense in the playoffs. 9 receptions allowed on 11 targets (82%rec%) for 124 yards. Had 2 Forced Incompletions (1 being hte A&M big one at the end)

Our 4 LBs in the playoffs - Wes, Toure, Smith, then Popo allowed 4 of the 5 highest passer ratings against in the playoff run. 113-118 for each.

The lowest Coverage Grade during the playoffs of ANYONE on the defense by pff was Chase Smith with a 28.2 coverage grade.

And on the ENTIRE SEASON the two lowest graded coverage grades on the team (>10 cov snaps) were Toure and Smith...
 
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Calinative said:
Do you accept stats?
Toure had the most yards allowed on the defense in the playoffs. 9 receptions allowed on 11 targets (82%rec%) for 124 yards. Had 2 Forced Incompletions (1 being hte A&M big one at the end)

Our 4 LBs in the playoffs - Wes, Toure, Smith, then Popo allowed 4 of the 5 highest passer ratings against in the playoff run. 113-118 for each.

The lowest Coverage Grade during the playoffs of ANYONE on the defense by pff was Chase Smith with a 28.2 coverage grade.

And on the ENTIRE SEASON the two lowest graded coverage grades on the team (>10 cov snaps) were Toure and Smith...
Click to expand...
I gladly accept stats. Those metrics don't account for how aggressive we are with nickel and safety pressure which puts far more strain on LBs in coverage and space. We basically played 5 man fronts. 50% of the time we were in under fronts with Scott walking up to join Bain. Who's left to cover underneath and TEs? So obviously our DC knows this but because Scott's play making ability off the edge was prioritized, Heatherman felt comfortable enough giving up some yards underneath.

Also, I gotta see it with my eyes. If im an opposing OC and I know they're that bad I am targeting them all day long right?
Didn't happen. Mo played the most snaps of any LB or at least as many snaps. 4 games against top 10 opponents who totaled 4 combined losses. You think giving up 9 total completions in 4 games is bad?

Our pass rush didn't give QBs much time in the pocket and our corners were really good in the playoffs so of course there's gonna be more underneath stuff. Then there's the aTm game were the wind was ridiculous and made anything downfield a crapshoot.
Then consider in all 4 playing games the opponent had 2 minute drills in the 2nd qtr.

2 of the 4 QBs we played in the playoffs have elite mobility which is going to put our LBs in confict every single play.

I could go on and on but metrics only tell once side of the story.
I don't think Mo and Smith are great coverage LBs are, but who is? This defense brought a ton of 5 man pressures which is going to puts ton of pressure in our LBs. I can't think of a single bust.
In fact two plays stick out to me in the aTm game. Mo selling out to break up that pass on the goal one and Chase being perfectly fit in the passing lane on the final play that ended up as an INT.
 
skeeter said:
Agree…I don't think we are in an ideal spot at LB, and again I think it's just a low ceiling with Smith, I may be wrong. Yes coverage thing was an issue during the regular season but it really got better as the year went on. In November and the entire playoffs the LBs really held up in coverage against some good offense.
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Against the best offenses the country had to offer. Guys act like we’re saying Chase and Mo will be Ray and Dan - no we’re not saying that but what the playoff run PROVED was that those two will be more than serviceable for another playoff run.
 
Calinative said:
Sabetta said:
Can you point to a single time in the playoffs where those two got "torched" in the passing game?🤣
What are you even talking about?
And Toure is a very good blitzer, especially in the A gap.
Our defense was great last year so I must've missed all this torching that Mo and Smith were on the field for. Was Wes Fred Warner or did I miss something.
I'm not saying Mo and Smith are great in the passing game but the overwhelming majority of college LBs aren't.
CJ Allen, Hill, Trotter are consensus top 5 MLB in the draft and that's the first thing you'll hear about them. They're not good in the passing game.
Tell me where and when they got torched?
Click to expand...
Do you accept stats?
Toure had the most yards allowed on the defense in the playoffs. 9 receptions allowed on 11 targets (82%rec%) for 124 yards. Had 2 Forced Incompletions (1 being hte A&M big one at the end)

Our 4 LBs in the playoffs - Wes, Toure, Smith, then Popo allowed 4 of the 5 highest passer ratings against in the playoff run. 113-118 for each.

The lowest Coverage Grade during the playoffs of ANYONE on the defense by pff was Chase Smith with a 28.2 coverage grade.

And on the ENTIRE SEASON the two lowest graded coverage grades on the team (>10 cov snaps) were Toure and Smith...
Click to expand...
Our front four was so elite that it disguised second level weaknesses. We have those same ones this season it seems. So either the front four has to be dominant or we will have some problems here and there.
 
Sabetta said:
I gladly accept stats. Those metrics don't account for how aggressive we are with nickel and safety pressure which puts far more strain on LBs in coverage and space. We basically played 5 man fronts. 50% of the time we were in under fronts with Scott walking up to join Bain. Who's left to cover underneath and TEs? So obviously our DC knows this but because Scott's play making ability off the edge was prioritized, Heatherman felt comfortable enough giving up some yards underneath.

Also, I gotta see it with my eyes. If im an opposing OC and I know they're that bad I am targeting them all day long right?
Didn't happen. Mo played the most snaps of any LB or at least as many snaps. 4 games against top 10 opponents who totaled 4 combined losses. You think giving up 9 total completions in 4 games is bad?

Our pass rush didn't give QBs much time in the pocket and our corners were really good in the playoffs so of course there's gonna be more underneath stuff. Then there's the aTm game were the wind was ridiculous and made anything downfield a crapshoot.
Then consider in all 4 playing games the opponent had 2 minute drills in the 2nd qtr.

2 of the 4 QBs we played in the playoffs have elite mobility which is going to put our LBs in confict every single play.

I could go on and on but metrics only tell once side of the story.
I don't think Mo and Smith are great coverage LBs are, but who is? This defense brought a ton of 5 man pressures which is going to puts ton of pressure in our LBs. I can't think of a single bust.
In fact two plays stick out to me in the aTm game. Mo selling out to break up that pass on the goal one and Chase being perfectly fit in the passing lane on the final play that ended up as an INT.
Click to expand...
Well first, it's not like Toure and Smith were always dropping back on pass snaps. They were only slightly in coverage more than Scott was on pass downs. And Scott was SIGNIFICANTLY better/more effective when bringing pressure than either of those two And an order of magnitude better while actually in coverage. And as far as you saying they weren't being attacked, I mean we had 2 or more CBs out like every game, and most teams we played had far better WRs than like Receiving RBs or TEs. Like best TE was Klare, Wright, and Boerkircher that we played, but the WRs on those teams were Jermiah Smith and Carnell Tate, A&M had Concepcion and Craver, Indiana had Omar Cooper, Sarratt, and Becker. Neither of those passed to RBs much. Ole Miss had Stribling, a couple other good wrs, and Their very good RB was hurt half the game... So I fundamentally disagree that the baseline of what youre trying to say that like 'Of course all teams did was throw to our lbs because they had the most difficult job'... nah

The only one in the playoffs that got targeted more than Toure was O'Connor in total. Smith just didn't play enough snaps over Wes to really say he was targeted as much, but that doesn't mean he did well when he was. Wes played almost as many cover snaps as Toure and Smith combined (87 vs 68 for Toure and 24 for Smith). On those Coverage snaps Wes was only targeted 2 times, Toure was targeted 11, and Smith was targeted 2 times as well. So you have a 2.3% targets:CoverageSnap rate for Wes, vs 16.2% for Toure, and 8.3% for Chase Smith. So how can you tell me they weren't being specifically attacked by opposing offenses? It seems pretty clear that compared to Wes they were either picked on or not as good/effective. So I mean you're saying you don't think they are great in coverage (fun fact: they objectively aren't close to great at all!), but they did far worse than Wes. And again, thats JUST the playoffs. Trust me, over the season there was an even larger gulf.

And if we look at Y/coversnap allowed:
Toure 1.82, Smith 1.33, Wes 0.29, OConnor 1.08, Lucas 1.38 (the big pass to Smith, otherwise not much), Scott 0.95, Jakobe 0.84, OJ 1.24
 
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Smith is the most valuable linebacker on this team. He can play mike and sam. Put Toure at sam and its BBQ chicken. Wesley was a better linebacker than both of them.

Wiley should play if his development is what I think it is. Rather Wiley or _________ I see Toure subbing out on passing downs. He is a liability there.
 
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Dwinstitles said:
Our front four was so elite that it disguised second level weaknesses. We have those same ones this season it seems. So either the front four has to be dominant or we will have some problems here and there.
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This

This year’s defensive line ain’t last year’s defensive line, and it all depends on how well they can set the edge which will also keep blockers off of our linebackers. Our next starting linebacker average one tackle per game.
 
Hufftwoseven said:
Smith played good last year. It’s his job and hopefully Wiley is first sub in and plays plenty
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Hopefully Wiley wins it or Miami might as well treat the linebacker position like a quarterback, looking for starters via the portal on your annual basis
 
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