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Penalties

P-Tizzle said:
That's not the argument. The argument is that according to your son, each team that Miami has played this year, has had their lowest total of penalties vs us than their other opponents, and that simply isn't true.

And secondly, what I also found, our opponents penalties against us ARE close to what they committed against other teams. Do you know what that reveals? It reveals that our opponents are disciplined, and Miami is one of the worst disciplined teams in the country.

It's not the refs. It's Miami.
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I'll agree about us not being disciplined... but I won't on all 7 opponents being disciplined....
 
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88 said:
OBB had a good point about it.

Referrees are one of the most coddled groups of professionals in the world. Why cant these refs be held seriously accountable for anomolies like this? Why are they so protected? Get their *** to the podium after the games
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They're coddled and they all have day jobs. Adam Savoie (ACC ref we've had twice this year) is a Lawyer.

Until this becomes their actual job and they're paid by the league well enough to only have 1 job it will keep happening. You hold them accountable now, they just lose their side gig and quit or go to a smaller league.

Need to pay them better, make it their FT job, hold trainings and workshops in the off-season, send them to schools during the off-seasons to meet with coaches and teams and hold clinics to teach players and coaches that are in the conference, and let them work scrimmages and spring games. Give them film on teams to watch to prepare for all week leading up to their game on saturday, including teach tape and what teams are regularly being called for and let them review their complaints from the prior week, etc.
 
DemCanes10 said:
How many of those penalties were holding? Because that’s what you should be really focused on.

All of sudden when OL play us they are Tom Yamasaki of OL blocking and do not hold. When we know Bain is held 5-7 times game.

So those 5 v 6 ratio means **** if it’s illegal shift and false starts.
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Brother listen to me. The teams we play, their total of penalties are very similar to the number of penalties in other games. if they commit 5 penalties in our games, our opponents are committing around 5 penalties in their other games. There is no discrepancy.
 
JayCane20 said:
They're coddled and they all have day jobs. Adam Savoie (ACC ref we've had twice this year) is a Lawyer.

Until this becomes their actual job and they're paid by the league well enough to only have 1 job it will keep happening. You hold them accountable now, they just lose their side gig and quit or go to a smaller league.

Need to pay them better, make it their FT job, hold trainings and workshops in the off-season, send them to schools during the off-seasons to meet with coaches and teams and hold clinics to teach players and coaches that are in the conference, and let them work scrimmages and spring games. Give them film on teams to watch to prepare for all week leading up to their game on saturday, including teach tape and what teams are regularly being called for and let them review their complaints from the prior week, etc.
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Completely agree that at this highest level. And dont give me the semantics argument about the NFL. The viewership, total eyeballs, and money spent put this level of football at just below the NFL. There really isn't a close third

We're paying players now. Now time to pay the refs. On the p4 level, personally I would love to see no more conference officials. Just officials assigned within their region

But paying and accountability by transparency would be a nice step in the right direction.

Paying and full time jobs would or should automatically open up training, oversight, clinics, off season practices, scrimmages, 7v7 etc
 
caneforlifeforreal said:
Its not just ACC refs (which we already know)

Someone brought up the point that in the 80's when we were dominating in microwave fashion upsetting the apple cart for the blue bloods.

…

Point being, all that hate was transferred to the sons, my age and a bit older/younger. The age group that runs things now. Conference officials, refs, fans, **** i can hear it on the radio by omission here in Raleigh on 99.9 the fan.

Short of full oversight of college football officiating, I dont think anything can be done as a whole
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I have always thought it’s subconscious with these guys. Not respecting Miami is ingrained in them.
 
Cane44 said:
I'll agree about us not being disciplined... but I won't on all 7 opponents being disciplined....
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Brother, if Miami is undisciplined, and the teams we play average 4-6 penalties per game in GAMES NOT AGAINST US.....what's your problem? You're just making **** up. Bring some facts to the table. Show me where the teams that play Miami have less penalties called against them vs other games? ND, UF, FSU, are all ranked in the top 50 of fewest penalties per game. The one that is the problem is Stanford. They average just under 7 penalties per game, they were only called for two vs us. So, that's spicious. And this coming stretch of games will help this narrative out a lot. SMU, Pitt, VT, NC State are worse at penalties per game than us.
 
P-Tizzle said:
Brother, if Miami is undisciplined, and the teams we play average 4-6 penalties per game in GAMES NOT AGAINST US.....what's your problem? You're just making **** up. Bring some facts to the table. Show me where the teams that play Miami have less penalties called against them vs other games? ND, UF, FSU, are all ranked in the top 50 of fewest penalties per game. The one that is the problem is Stanford. They average just under 7 penalties per game, they were only called for two vs us. So, that's spicious. And this coming stretch of games will help this narrative out a lot. SMU, Pitt, VT, NC State are worse at penalties per game than us.
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Miami is an outlier, brother.

Notre Dame
A&M - 5 penalties/31 yards
Purdue - 3/30
Arkansas - 5/42
Boise - 11/112
NC State - 6/55
USC - 8/96
Average w/o Miami - 6.3/61
Miami - 5/15

USF
Boise - 7/56
UF - 9/75
SC State - 8/80
Charlotte - 7/60
North Texas - 6/70
FAU - 7/80
Memphis - 7/74
Average w/o Miami - 7.3/70
Miami - 2/15

Florida
USF - 11/103
LSU - 7/57
Texas - 7/50
A&M - 6/54
Miss St - 7/60
Average w/o Miami - 7.6/65
Miami - 3/20

FSU
Bama - 4/40
Kent St - 5/59
UVA - 5/49
Pitt - 8/72
Stanford - 13/79
Average w/o Miami - 7/60
Miami - 5/45

Louisville
Eastern Kentucky - 12/106
JMU - 5/49
Bowling Green - 6/55
Pitt - 9/92
UVA - 5/60
BC - 6/45
Average w/o Miami - 7.1/68
Miami 6/64

Stanford
Hawaii - 7/70
BYU - 6/45
BC - 4/30
UVA - 4/40
SJS - 11/95
SMU - 10/95
FSU - 5/47
Average w/o Miami - 6.7/60
Miami - 2/10
 
hurricaneman said:
Miami is an outlier, brother.

Notre Dame
A&M - 5 penalties/31 yards
Purdue - 3/30
Arkansas - 5/42
Boise - 11/112
NC State - 6/55
USC - 8/96
Average w/o Miami - 6.3/61
Miami - 5/15

USF
Boise - 7/56
UF - 9/75
SC State - 8/80
Charlotte - 7/60
North Texas - 6/70
FAU - 7/80
Memphis - 7/74
Average w/o Miami - 7.3/70
Miami - 2/15

Florida
USF - 11/103
LSU - 7/57
Texas - 7/50
A&M - 6/54
Miss St - 7/60
Average w/o Miami - 7.6/65
Miami - 3/20

FSU
Bama - 4/40
Kent St - 5/59
UVA - 5/49
Pitt - 8/72
Stanford - 13/79
Average w/o Miami - 7/60
Miami - 5/45

Louisville
Eastern Kentucky - 12/106
JMU - 5/49
Bowling Green - 6/55
Pitt - 9/92
UVA - 5/60
BC - 6/45
Average w/o Miami - 7.1/68
Miami 6/64

Stanford
Hawaii - 7/70
BYU - 6/45
BC - 4/30
UVA - 4/40
SJS - 11/95
SMU - 10/95
FSU - 5/47
Average w/o Miami - 6.7/60
Miami - 2/10
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So this is the argument: ACC refs hate Miami. Testing that thesis.

UF vs Miami (had SEC refs; can't blame ACC officials who don't official the game).
Stanford vs UM. Like I said in my previous post, you can make an argument here.
FSU vs UM: other than the Stanford game, FSU penalized the same in all their games including Miami.
UL vs UM: no discrepancy. 1 penalty and 4 yards difference
USF vs UM: same as ND and UF; USF brought their own refs.

I said in my previous post.....the final four games of the season will definitely explain a lot. Pitt, NC State, VT, and SMU are some of the worst penalized teams in the country; all four are statistically worse than UM. They are all ACC officials. Let's see. Maybe ACC refs hate Miami. The next four games will reveal a lot, imo.
 
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P-Tizzle said:
So this is the argument: ACC refs hate Miami. Testing that thesis.

UF vs Miami (had SEC refs; can't blame ACC officials who don't official the game).
Stanford vs UM. Like I said in my previous post, you can make an argument here.
FSU vs UM: other than the Stanford game, FSU penalized the same in all their games including Miami.
UL vs UM: no discrepancy. 1 penalty and 4 yards difference
USF vs UM: same as ND and UF; USF brought their own refs.

I said in my previous post.....the final four games of the season will definitely explain a lot. Pitt, NC State, VT, and SMU are some of the worst penalized teams in the country; all four are statistically worse than UM. They are all ACC officials. Let's see. Maybe ACC refs hate Miami. The next four games will reveal a lot, imo.
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So here's something really interesting.

I did a little digging and found an analysis from a Michigan blog that said from 2012-2017 Alabama drew holding calls once every 260 plays while the next team on that list, Michigan, drew holding calls every 160 plays. The guy made this chart below. The dot all the way at the top is Bama.

Ohio State is right next to Miami at the bottom of the opponent penalties ranking. It may be that there is a very clear bias in officiating really good defensive lines. And I also found out offensive holding is the most common penalty called. So that would correlate low averages to good defensive lines, if there is a bias.

Offensive Holding in the B1G and Beyond: Part Deux | mgoblog

As a follow up to my earlier thread here, I performed a deeper dive on offensive holding. In the initial thread, I found that in 2014-2017, Michigan's defense had only drawn 10 offensive holding calls, significantly less than all other B1G teams. TL;DR: Defensive line performance is a poor...
mgoblog.com mgoblog.com

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Im pretty sure we can all agree that the ACC sucks but the real problem with the officiating bias that we have been dealing with since the mid to late 80’s leads right back to the NCAA. The NCAA has made it no secret that it hates Miami as much as MLB hates or hated Pete Rose.

The officials are employees of the NCAA and it’s blatantly obvious they still have it in for Miami, even after all these years later. The only way we’re ever going to win again is if we just beat the brakes off of most everyone we play and keep the game out of the refs hands at the end of ballgames. End of story. Jimmy Johnson told us this years ago and he wasn’t wrong.

Mario needs to abandon the prevent offense concept that he’s been leaning on when we’re closing out games. He needs to just continue to throttle these teams when you have them down and stop relying on the analytics that he’s using to help him make decisions.
 
The argument can be made either way as to whether we are just not disciplined, or officials are slighted against us. I see a bit of both . Watching the games you clearly see bone head mistakes on our boys, and blatant missed calls on the opponent. This is nothing new . Been that way since I began following this team passionately in the 80s. It's a Miami bias thing in my opinion and I have come to expect it. Play well enough though and you should be taking that power out of the refs hands. We will see today shortly
 
P-Tizzle said:
It reveals that our opponents are disciplined, and Miami is one of the worst disciplined teams in the country.

It's not the refs. It's Miami.
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Yup. The refs don't miss Brokenmeyer's non-snap snaps because it's impossible to miss. A RT moving a millisecond early is different. There are missed holds on both sides in every game, same for DPI, OPI, etc.
 
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88 said:
OBB had a good point about it.

Referrees are one of the most coddled groups of professionals in the world. Why cant these refs be held seriously accountable for anomolies like this? Why are they so protected? Get their *** to the podium after the games
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The refs get MFed all game by 100K people, and double MFed by every head coach... coddled? You must work in Rikers
 
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