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PEDs in Football

I'm also curious to know what yall are basing this assumption off of?
The way Alabama/Clemson players LOOK?

Because when it comes down to the combine their numbers are on par (or worse) than the rest of the genetic freaks who are there.

And surely you can't be basing this assumption off performance, cause there's like a hundred different factors that affect that, way before drugs.

I mean, if Bama and Clemson players are all doped up then why aren't they dominating the NFL combine? (which is exactly where the benefits of juicing would show up) You mean to tell me that kids from schools like Kansas State are putting up better strength and explosion numbers than doped up kids from Bama/Clemson?
 
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OriginalGatorHater said:
That is why I said thank you for sharing and moved on. I down know as many NFL players as you do. I stated this in the past, but I do know a couple guys currently in the NFL and I am still very good friends with them. They told me PED use is rampant in the NFL. Both of them have used PEDs through their careers(but not in college).

Obviously, different sport, but I know a lot of the big boxing coaches in NYC and PED use is rampant in boxing as well. This I know for a fact. The only reason I bring it up is because boxing is very strict with their tests(more so than the NFL) yet guys are easily able to cheat the tests. The only guys that pop are the ones that skimp out and don't buy the "designer PEDs", mess something up in the process, or get very unlucky.

Also, living in NYC, I grew up with quite a few guys who have spent some time in the NBA. Everyone has told me that when players get injured they almost all hop on PEDs to improve and speed up the recovery process.



Now obviously this does not take anything away from the athletes. You give juice to pretty much anyone not in the NFL and they still wouldn't make the NFL.
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I hear ya.
And I'm willing to keep my ears/eyes open to learn if it's true, but as of now I haven't seen/heard it first hand.
I can't sit here and say it's a rampant thing because that's not what I've personally seen, but I'll keep sniffing around. I'm not in denial, I just haven't seen it. I, however, have seen multiple kids with NFL measureables who were 100% natural.
 
Coach Macho said:
I'm also curious to know what yall are basing this assumption off of?
The way Alabama/Clemson players LOOK?

Because when it comes down to the combine their numbers are on par (or worse) than the rest of the genetic freaks who are there.

And surely you can't be basing this assumption off performance, cause there's like a hundred different factors that affect that, way before drugs.

I mean, if Bama and Clemson players are all doped up then why aren't they dominating the NFL combine? (which is exactly where the benefits of juicing would show up) You mean to tell me that kids from schools like Kansas State are putting up better strength and explosion numbers than doped up kids from Bama/Clemson?
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I don't disagree with you here. I honestly have no idea if Clemson and Bama are on juice, but I disagree with your NFL reasoning.

Hear me out.

Lets say these Bama and Clemson guys are on juice in college and still aren't able to beat out the natural kids from other schools. Once they reach the NFL two things could possibly happen.

A. Everyone is on juice and then the guys who were equal or better to the Bama guys when they were natty now dominate the Bama kids because they are on juice.

Or

B. Your theory is correct and no one is on juice. Then all the Bama and Clemson kids need to come off the juice and get beat out by the natural guys in the NFL.
 
Coach Macho said:
I hear ya.
And I'm willing to keep my ears/eyes open to learn if it's true, but as of now I haven't seen/heard it first hand.
I can't sit here and say it's a rampant thing because that's not what I've personally seen, but I'll keep sniffing around. I'm not in denial, I just haven't seen it. I, however, have seen multiple kids with NFL measureables who were 100% natural.
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I agree with your logic too about all the bodybuilding.com guys that are like "well if I can't bench 225x29 reps and run a 4.4 at 220 no chance Saquan can natural". These guys are idiots and don't realize that these guys are the .000000000001% of the population. They literally have THE BEST genetics for football. I don't think people realize how little PEDs actually help too. Its not like your going to drop your 40 by .3 seconds by hopping on something. Also, like we said earlier these guys aren't juice up to the gills 24/7 365 because they are getting tested.

I imagine when people are talking about PEDs being rampant they are talking more about very low doses in the off season to help get a tiny bit stronger, faster, explosive in the offseason while also speeding up recovery time.
 
Mikep said:
You sound like a mona vie saleman.
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Didn't know what that was - so I looked it up - and it actually sounds like you may have been one of their salesmen - as you seem to know more about it than me - and it popped into your head rather quickly. Or did you buy that crap?

The guy that's formulated these things is a nanotechnology chemist - a visiting professor at the premier top materials research lab, a lecturer, senior research chemist, working with nanotechnology, nanoelectronics, exotic materials synthesis, electromagnetic field/materials reactions, magnetic resonance analysis, medicinal delivery systems, and much more.

He's a designer of laboratory instrumentation, holds 6 patents, has been published 25 times, cited by other researchers in their published research over a thousand times, and co-authored a chapter in the Oxford Handbook of Nanoscience and Technology.

I didn't try to sell a damned thing - they don't even have a name - just pointing out that there are natural performance enhancing things that aren't harmful - and merely assist the body to do wonderful things performance-wise. Like nature intended.
 
Coach Macho said:
I have 2 kids in the NFL. (neither of which took PED's)
Kids scattered all throughout D1 college football.

Never once have I heard anything about juicing.

I don't have any kids at Bama or Clemson, but I coach kids who have offers from Bama and/or Clemson. And guess what, THEY'RE FREAK ATHLETES. They're rare specimens of human beings.

It's safe to say when you take a kid who's that kind of athlete and put him in an elite S&C program (+ nutrition that he's never had) he's going to grow into an even bigger, faster and stronger freak...NATURALLY.

I had a DT leave high school benching 375, squatting 605 and dead-lifting 605. Never touched a drug in his life. That's a SPECIAL teenager. Now WTF do you think his strength numbers would be after 3/4 years of a college S&C program. Pretty "juice ball" like I'd say.
Had a DT last year who was 6'3" 267lbs with pecs and abs. And could run! This is the type of kid that teams like Clemson recruits. He'll go to college and turn into a 290lb freak who people will think is juiced up.
The **** kid at STA, Sapp. He's a fvckin' 10th grader who is already built like a brick ****house. He's going to go to UF/Bama/Clemson/wherever and end up looking/performing like a "juiced up" athlete. BUT HE'S BEEN LIKE THIS NATURALLY SINCE 9TH GRADE!
I had a Linebacker who signed with Michigan State who was 6'1" 220lb chiseled, power cleaned 335, benched 335 and ran a legit 4.5 forty. Had he not flunked out this kid would've ended up being a 240lb animal with retarded strength numbers and a 4.5-4.6 forty.
Fabian Moreau ran a 4.38 in high school at 185lbs and could dunk a basketball in a pair of slides.
Jon Feliciano could power clean 335 and was a starter on the basketball and football team.
My Junior Strong Safety just squatted 405 x 10 last week.

Maybe some of yall have never actually known any legit D1 athletes.
These kids COME INTO 9TH GRADE already 100 steps ahead of their peers. ****, ahead of most human beings period. I got teenage football players who lift more than the grown men at the gyms I go to.

These type of kids don't need juice.
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We both know that linemen, LBs and RBs are positions that are more likely to juice and there are a lot on bamas team(not just freak athletes) I know Jon feliciano and his mother (good ppl)..... taking a cycle or two in college to speed up the process is quite common. I had friend that didn’t even play sports that would take one cycle in their life and work out to maintain and were jacked.
 
I agree the vast majority are NOT on PEDs in the NFL. Because the vast majority would be a big number like 70% 80%.

Saying a vast majority are not on PEDs does not exclude that a significant number of them are on PEDs.

And I would be willing to say a big number have taken HGH, especially post injury.

And I don’t think estimating over 50% have taken steroids and/or HGH at some point in their careers is unreasonable.

And there’s a cottage business getting these guys their juice.

And I am not even critical of the controlled/managed use of the substances, in the NFL. Especially in the NFL. If I were in the NFL I would take them, as needed, as long as I didn’t get caught. It would be beneficial for my career. And believe me I would figure out a way how not to get caught.

If used appropriately, there’s very little long-term risk.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
I agree the vast majority are NOT on PEDs in the NFL. Because the vast majority would be a big number like 70% 80%.

Saying a vast majority are not on PEDs does not exclude that a significant number of them are on PEDs.

And I would be willing to say a big number have taken HGH, especially post injury.

And I don’t think estimating over 50% have taken steroids and/or HGH at some point in their careers is unreasonable.

And there’s a cottage business getting these guys their juice.

And I am not even critical of the controlled/managed use of the substances, in the NFL. Especially in the NFL. If I were in the NFL I would take them, as needed, as long as I didn’t get caught. It would be beneficial for my career. And believe me I would figure out a way how not to get caught.

If used appropriately, there’s very little long-term risk.
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So now he’s a medical expert.

😂
 
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Lyle Alzado is an extreme example of what not to so with PED's. His options were probably more limited than today's options, but he became the poster child of what effects PED's can have. Even Peyton Manning had some controversy when it was discovered that some were delivered to his home and he claimed that they were for his wife.

I have to believe @Coach Macho and his take on PED's at the high school level. He's been in the trenches with HS players for years and surely has first hand experience with what is, and isn't being done. I also can't believe HS players could afford the cost.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
I agree the vast majority are NOT on PEDs in the NFL. Because the vast majority would be a big number like 70% 80%.

Saying a vast majority are not on PEDs does not exclude that a significant number of them are on PEDs.

And I would be willing to say a big number have taken HGH, especially post injury.

And I don’t think estimating over 50% have taken steroids and/or HGH at some point in their careers is unreasonable.

And there’s a cottage business getting these guys their juice.

And I am not even critical of the controlled/managed use of the substances, in the NFL. Especially in the NFL. If I were in the NFL I would take them, as needed, as long as I didn’t get caught. It would be beneficial for my career. And believe me I would figure out a way how not to get caught.

If used appropriately, there’s very little long-term risk.
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I concur, Doctor.
 
UMFarArcher said:
No, and I think you mean pyrroloquinoline quinone.

It's not on the market yet - a number of body builders, mountain bikers, - the endurance and strength guys - have been taking this stuff and their feedback is well beyond the 10%, but it's better to keep the numbers conservative. Former lifting champs, former top athletes, accustomed to measuring their performances. They say their absolute best - their absolute maximum - is increased at least by a factor of 10%. I'm using the mountain biker's numbers of at least 10%. One guy's a weightlifter - a former record holder - and he said he could reach his max once a week - and that was the best he could do - but with this - he can do that three times a week.

Any athlete - if he can extend his stamina by just 10%? That's major!

This is just natural formulations that strictly enhance the mitochondria to maximize efficiency.

The key to cellular performance - in all cells - is found in the mitochondria. Oh, and he's got another product just for the brain - students taking tests? They have reported unbelievable results. Clarity, concentration, recall, focus, everything. Again, to maximize cellular function without none-natural formulations that always come with side effects.

There's a product certification to ensure that no prohibited ingredients are in a product - and I think it costs like $30K - and that has to be done before they want to release it - just to prove its safe for athletes. Clean performance.
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what's the name of the product?
 
Coach Macho said:
I have 2 kids in the NFL. (neither of which took PED's)
Kids scattered all throughout D1 college football.

Never once have I heard anything about juicing.

I don't have any kids at Bama or Clemson, but I coach kids who have offers from Bama and/or Clemson. And guess what, THEY'RE FREAK ATHLETES. They're rare specimens of human beings.

It's safe to say when you take a kid who's that kind of athlete and put him in an elite S&C program (+ nutrition that he's never had) he's going to grow into an even bigger, faster and stronger freak...NATURALLY.

I had a DT leave high school benching 375, squatting 605 and dead-lifting 605. Never touched a drug in his life. That's a SPECIAL teenager. Now WTF do you think his strength numbers would be after 3/4 years of a college S&C program. Pretty "juice ball" like I'd say.
Had a DT last year who was 6'3" 267lbs with pecs and abs. And could run! This is the type of kid that teams like Clemson recruits. He'll go to college and turn into a 290lb freak who people will think is juiced up.
The **** kid at STA, Sapp. He's a fvckin' 10th grader who is already built like a brick ****house. He's going to go to UF/Bama/Clemson/wherever and end up looking/performing like a "juiced up" athlete. BUT HE'S BEEN LIKE THIS NATURALLY SINCE 9TH GRADE!
I had a Linebacker who signed with Michigan State who was 6'1" 220lb chiseled, power cleaned 335, benched 335 and ran a legit 4.5 forty. Had he not flunked out this kid would've ended up being a 240lb animal with retarded strength numbers and a 4.5-4.6 forty.
Fabian Moreau ran a 4.38 in high school at 185lbs and could dunk a basketball in a pair of slides.
Jon Feliciano could power clean 335 and was a starter on the basketball and football team.
My Junior Strong Safety just squatted 405 x 10 last week.

Maybe some of yall have never actually known any legit D1 athletes.
These kids COME INTO 9TH GRADE already 100 steps ahead of their peers. ****, ahead of most human beings period. I got teenage football players who lift more than the grown men at the gyms I go to.

These type of kids don't need juice.
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Ok, I believe you👊
 
Never coached an NFL or D-1 athlete, but have enough insight to know that PEDs/PESs play a reasonably significant role in sport - take your choice: Sarms, hgh, testosterone, assortment of peptides, etc. Is the use prevalent? Probably not. Of course, what are we talking about when say use? Used once or twice in training or injury recovery? Or part of the routine? Again, it isn't trainers directing **** out of the weight room. It's friends, other players, people that know people. Don't be fooled just because only in rare instances do you read about positive tests. For the most part, you have to be a *****-up to get caught. A lot of what's done is in the off-season & when testing is limited. hGH is probably more prevalent with the pro athletes who have money as it's a huge benefit in recovering from injury & the wear and tear. In baseball, the focus was on Bonds and McGwire, but turned out relief pitchers were among the largest purchasers/users because of the recovery angle - being able to pitch back-to-back nights or two of three games.
And don't just focus on Alabama and Clemson. If you step back, Miami has its own rich history. Alex Rodriguez is the king of doping - and has a field named after him. One of the Miami trainers/strength coaches was a major Biogenesis customer. Ex-asst coach Lazer Collazo was part of the deal as well as a number of pro and college baseball players, and football has had its own connections here and elsewhere. Again, is the use rampant? No, but its also naive to think college and pro athletes aren't looking for an edge, especially well-paid pro players in need of recovery or getting through the grind of a season.
 
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I think there is definitely PED usage in college athletics, but I can not see it being institutionalized like the OP claims. What he is claiming is Drug Dealing and if caught Dabo and his entire staff would go to prison for a decade. It is concerning that you had 6 players suspended from the NC game and the NCAA hasn’t conducted any type of investigation.
 
warpigs58 said:
I think there is definitely PED usage in college athletics, but I can not see it being institutionalized like the OP claims. What he is claiming is Drug Dealing and if caught Dabo and his entire staff would go to prison for a decade. It is concerning that you had 6 players suspended from the NC game and the NCAA hasn’t conducted any type of investigation.
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But it was institutionalized during the 80s and 90s at several major programs. It was basically institutionalized in MLB. There's already precedent.

And there's a zero chance Dabo could go down. They'd make a doctor or trainer the fall guy.

And as you said, just look at the NC game. Ostarine is an illegal PED. Supply it and you can go to prison. Dabo even admitted Clemson supplied it to their players. But nothing will happen of course
 
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