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Pat Surtain

Memnon said:
Jarrian Jones was one of the highest graded CB's in the Nation last year, although there's many variables that factor into that. And Renardo Green played pretty well leading the ACC in forced incompletions.

But given the fact he's only been a College Coach for 1 year, I'd say his overall evaluation as a Coach in totality is still TBD.

Recruiting only matters to me if the on field play isn't producing. Idc really care if a Coach is an Ace recruiter who can't Coach, because CB is position that needs a technically savvy teacher that can get the players from point A to point B. The myth that if you just recruit/sign a bunch of 5-stars & they will miraculously play well on their own without learning proper technique, is just that, a myth.

Bama has only had 2 CB's drafted in the 1st round in the last 10 years & UGA has only had 1... They sign 5-star Corners in pretty much every class, so what does that tell you?
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Couldn't have said it better myself with that last paragraph, need development big time at the CB position and when he was together with Guidry in 2022 they were near the top in pass defense in the nation.
 
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Memnon said:
Jarrian Jones was one of the highest graded CB's in the Nation last year, although there's many variables that factor into that. And Renardo Green played pretty well leading the ACC in forced incompletions.

But given the fact he's only been a College Coach for 1 year, I'd say his overall evaluation as a Coach in totality is still TBD.

Recruiting only matters to me if the on field play isn't producing. Idc really care if a Coach is an Ace recruiter who can't Coach, because CB is position that needs a technically savvy teacher that can get the players from point A to point B. The myth that if you just recruit/sign a bunch of 5-stars & they will miraculously play well on their own without learning proper technique, is just that, a myth.

Bama has only had 2 CB's drafted in the 1st round in the last 10 years & UGA has only had 1... They sign 5-star Corners in pretty much every class, so what does that tell you?
Click to expand...

Agree with a lot of this...

So basically your argument Menmon, is you don't care how many **** stars are next to a kid's name just get some **** speed at the position and don't recruit the position lazily, correct? Lol
 
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skeeter said:
Agree with a lot of this...

So basically your argument Menmon, is you don't care how many **** stars are next to a kid's name just get some **** speed at the position and don't recruit the position lazily, correct? Lol
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Yes & no lol

Stars do matter, but what you do with them matters even more.

Each individual evaluation is an eval unto itself. Some low rated kids will develop over time into good players & some high rated players will bust. And vice versa. But the point is to have the ability to make the best of whatever situation you're in, which is turning over every stone from HS & the Portal & putting the best product on the field.

The biggest issue Miami has continually had is settling & making excuses for lack of success on both fronts.
 
The only value Pat has provided to FSU so far is getting all the former AH kids to portal there. Otherwise he’s an unknown commodity at the college level. Pass for now.
 
Memnon said:
Yes & no lol

Stars do matter, but what you do with them matters even more.

Each individual evaluation is an eval unto itself. Some low rated kids will develop over time into good players & some high rated players will bust. And vice versa. But the point is to have the ability to make the best of whatever situation you're in, which is turning over every stone from HS & the Portal & putting the best product on the field.

The biggest issue Miami has continually had is settling & making excuses for lack of success on both fronts.
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I definitely think traits matter the most. And we've either missed via recruiting or simply not properly evaluated enough kids with some of the needed traits to help us succeed in fielding an adequate secondary.
 
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I’m just passing it along. It’s believable given that he’s a millionaire NFL player and may not want to suck up to high school kids. But I don’t know if it’s true or not.

If he is low effort, it’s a problem. Rumph developed NFL guys and had elite pass efficiency rankings, too. The only guy that I had faith in to recruit hard and develop was TRob.
 
DMoney said:
I’m just passing it along. It’s believable given that he’s a millionaire NFL player and may not want to suck up to high school kids. But I don’t know if it’s true or not.

If he is low effort, it’s a problem. Rumph developed NFL guys and had elite pass efficiency rankings, too. The only guy that I had faith in to recruit hard and develop was TRob.
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I know this wasn't your point. But TRob was about TRob. I was ecstatic to have him at first. But his narcissism rubbed me the wrong way quickly. I'm glad he's gone. ... Mario wants a recruiter and Guidry trusts the guy. I doubt they sugar coated the job to him. He knows he has to hustle. This hire won't take long to assess.
 
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Memnon said:
Jarrian Jones was one of the highest graded CB's in the Nation last year, although there's many variables that factor into that. And Renardo Green played pretty well leading the ACC in forced incompletions.

But given the fact he's only been a College Coach for 1 year, I'd say his overall evaluation as a Coach in totality is still TBD.

Recruiting only matters to me if the on field play isn't producing. Idc really care if a Coach is an Ace recruiter who can't Coach, because CB is position that needs a technically savvy teacher that can get the players from point A to point B. The myth that if you just recruit/sign a bunch of 5-stars & they will miraculously play well on their own without learning proper technique, is just that, a myth.

Bama has only had 2 CB's drafted in the 1st round in the last 10 years & UGA has only had 1... They sign 5-star Corners in pretty much every class, so what does that tell you?
Click to expand...
Bishop Memnon preachin' the gospel on this one. You’ve hit the nail on the head. I saw the lack of technical development in Athens first hand. Cuz want up there as a ballhawk and they all but “coached” it out of him. At Heritage, he’d turn his head and make a play on the football as comfortably as blinking and breathing.

He gets up there and he’s in full blown panic mode when the ball is in the air. IMO, his “development” there costed him a 1st round slot. Man had to re-learn how to play the ball in the air, and he still has his UGA moments.

Fam, I know you’re a DB man, so I’m interested in your opinion on playing through the hands primarily. Save for playing a little SS in a pinch early in HS, I never played much in the secondary. But IIRC, every DB and DB coach in my era stressed that you play the ball in the air first and then through the hands…
 
RattlerCane305 said:
Bishop Memnon preachin' the gospel on this one. You’ve hit the nail on the head. I saw the lack of technical development in Athens first hand. Cuz want up there as a ballhawk and they all but “coached” it out of him. At Heritage, he’d turn his head and make a play on the football as comfortably as blinking and breathing.

He gets up there and he’s in full blown panic mode when the ball is in the air. IMO, his “development” there costed him a 1st round slot. Man had to re-learn how to play the ball in the air, and he still has his UGA moments.

Fam, I know you’re a DB man, so I’m interested in your opinion on playing through the hands primarily. Save for playing a little SS in a pinch early in HS, I never played much in the secondary. But IIRC, every DB and DB coach in my era stressed that you play the ball in the air first and then through the hands…
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Playing through the hands is apart of fundamental technique to complete the play.

If you can't get a pick, you have to play through the hands & do everything you can to separate the ball from the WR. That's why it's so important to learn proper technique because even if you're beat on a route your body positioning should be such that you still have a chance to get you hand in there in between the catch zone & knock it out of the WR's hands or affect the catch to your best ability.

The turning your head aspect is something that every Coach should teach but not alot of them always do because they believe you need to keep eyes on the WR at all times. But the problem with that philosophy is that when you face guard, you have no idea where the ball is & leave yourself susceptible to Moss'd or a P.I..

Too many CB's haven't learned that QB's will specifically throw at you if they see you're not watching the ball. They're so worried about the losing the WR that they believe if they take their eyes off him they won't be able to cover the breaking routes off the WR's stems. But what they fail to realize is that the WR is going to stem his route anyway & they're banking on you not locating the ball.

The way to alleviate that worry is to close the distance by pressing chest to chest at the top of the route & using your upper body to both slow down & keep the WR within range, while you locate the ball, then it because a Basketball style boxing out play where you establish your right to the ball by reshuffling your feet & walling off the WR.

When that happens the result 90% of the time will be the same; you either pick it off, get a PBU/PD or cause an incompletion. CB's get beat because they either don't have the physical ability to keep up with the WR to put themselves in position to make a play on the ball, or they play with such bad technique they spend the entire route trying to regain footing & never have a chance to get to the ball.
 
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DMoney said:
I’m just passing it along. It’s believable given that he’s a millionaire NFL player and may not want to suck up to high school kids. But I don’t know if it’s true or not.

If he is low effort, it’s a problem. Rumph developed NFL guys and had elite pass efficiency rankings, too. The only guy that I had faith in to recruit hard and develop was TRob.
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That’s possible of course but then there’s Jason Taylor as well and he recruits.
 
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Memnon said:
Playing through the hands is apart of fundamental technique to complete the play.

If you can't get a pick, you have to play through the hands & do everything you can to separate the ball from the WR. That's why it's so important to learn proper technique because even if you're beat on a route your body positioning should be such that you still have a chance to get you hand in there in between the catch zone & knock it out of the WR's hands or affect the catch to your best ability.

The turning your head aspect is something that every Coach should teach but not alot of them always do because they believe you need to keep eyes on the WR at all times. But the problem with that philosophy is that when you face guard, you have no idea where the ball is & leave yourself susceptible to Moss'd or a P.I..

Too many CB's haven't learned that QB's will specifically throw at you if they see you're not watching the ball. They're so worried about the losing the WR that they believe if they take their eyes off him they won't be able to cover the breaking routes off the WR's stems. But what they fail to realize is that the WR is going to stem his route anyway & they're banking on you not locating the ball.

The way to alleviate that worry is to close the distance by pressing chest to chest at the top of the route & using your upper body to both slow down & keep the WR within range, while you locate the ball, then it because a Basketball style boxing out play where you establish your right to the ball by reshuffling your feet & walling off the WR.

When that happens the result 90% of the time will be the same; you either pick it off, get a PBU/PD or cause an incompletion. CB's get beat because they either don't have the physical ability to keep up with the WR to put themselves in position to make a play on the ball, or they play with such bad technique they spend the entire route trying to regain footing & never have a chance to get to the ball.
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*takes notes


I’ll be sure to mention this stuff in my interview
 
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