Our Glorious Athletic Director

[dookie blaylock]

BTW, Marlins Stadium and parking garages sit on about 35 acres.

marlins park also has a capacity of about 36,000 and zero space to tailgate unless you want to grill in a covered parking garage with everyone else. sun life is already sterile, but at least there's tailgating.

 

[Hegemon]

Groundbreaking comments. Cutting edge. Now, do you have a plan for getting that place of our own?

Why should I have plans? Explain this to me. Everyone else in the country is moving forward and we're not even ATTEMPTING it. In fact our AD is so **** made he thinks someone is going to walk up to his door with a pre-made stadium to be built.

I take it your a Golden support as well.

That's ok he'll fail all by himself.

No, you're just so ignorant you think the university hasn't already looked into this issue. Blake's comments about the stadium and being open to someone presenting one to them was a semi-sarcastic remark aimed at people like you who keep bringing up the stadium issue as if it hasn't already been looked into.

Why are you jumping into this conversation?

It has been looked into? When and where? LOL at morons like yourself telling me our Administration and Athletic Department has done anything regarding this.

Shut up and move along troll.

It's a public forum, a group discussion. Don't like it? Go have a private side conversation. Yes, the university has looked at options for stadiums for a long time. This is not a new issue that just popped up.

I want someone to go back and show me where I said this is a new issue.

Please enlighten me.

 

[AntwanJ306]

I want someone to go back and show me where I said this is a new issue.

Please enlighten me.

Your only saving grace was if you thought this was a new issue. The fact that you know you're beating a dead horse and STILL ***** about it says even more about you.

 

[Consigliere]

the problem with a land lease is that the city still has the leverage and they'll still gouge. we need their cooperation more than they need ours. they could just lease us enough land for the stadium itself, but keep the controlling interest of the parking lots, which are a huge revenue generator (which is a reason why the orange bowl lease sucked so bad for us). they could (and should if they are smart) also charge a percentage of our annual revenue per terms of the lease, then collect city tax revenue on top of that. if we buy the land, we only have to pay the tax to them. they're not going to give us a lease for some negligible amount because the park is still popular with the public. if you're going to put together a capital campaign for a stadium, you play for keeps.

It depends on the length and the terms, which would be really difficult to speculate. It is always good when you have a city that needs money because they're running at a deficit.

Side note: Land leases are common where I work and land is much more scarce in my city. In exchange for developing (99 year lease) rights the tenant makes PILOT payments the city and possibly supply some affordable housing. Usually at the end of the land lease there is an option to purchase the land at a set amount.

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

BTW, Marlins Stadium and parking garages sit on about 35 acres.

marlins park also has a capacity of about 36,000 and zero space to tailgate unless you want to grill in a covered parking garage with everyone else. sun life is already sterile, but at least there's tailgating.

Paging rokika

 

[Consigliere]

This board has been insufferable, but great posts here by db.

Half the people calling for a feasibility study here have had to copy and paste the term to maintain its proper spelling. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't been done. And if UM was smart, they'd have a bunch of smart, ambitious, and incentivized grad students turn in a bunch of feasibility studies -- see if any young, bright minds had any ideas they may have missed -- and at absolutely no cost to them!

/ohwait

I assume your talking to me? Why don't you just respond to my post if so?

It's not that UM isn't smart, it's that the priority is not there. There is no urgency to get this done for the program.

 

[Consigliere]

The amusing thing is they act as if the stadium issue hasn't been discussed and examined internally for many years now. The only semi-possible site is Tropical Park, and that would require the city giving up a prized piece of park land and cutting a fair deal with the University, neither scenario which is realistic given the popularity of the park, the economics of it, and the city's attitude towards the school.

Prove it.

 

[Consigliere]

i don't remember exact figures because this was 3 years ago, but tropical park would be the cost of the land, the cost of stadium construction, and somewhere around $14-20 million from the state to build direct on/off ramps to the stadium site off of the 826 to prevent bird and miller from clogging up. baylor's new stadium cost $266 million to build. it seats just under 45k and is probably the closest thing to what we need that we can judge costs from. i don't know what the construction cost index is for miami compared to waco, but it's definitely more expensive. also tropical park would come at extortion prices because the city has no reason to sell the land and we have no leverage to get it.

the other sites past the hammocks on the west side of the city were the cost of land, stadium construction costs, $125-175 million from the state alone to construct/expand new roads, and we actually ended up losing count of the property values of what would need to be demolished in order to widen the roads enough (it was in the hundreds of millions). that's all discounting the inevitable lawsuits from displaced businesses and homes if the state were to somehow claim eminent domain over those properties for highway road construction, which would also be fought tooth and nail by the city to begin with.

the biggest problem that we have isn't the fundraising, it's the politics. the lands out west would require the state to justify spending tons of money to displace homes and businesses as well as build roads to a stadium that would suit our needs, but isn't big enough to be a premier venue for shows/events. the potential for revenue at a site on the remote outskirts of the city isn't as high as it is at the existing stadium (sun life). tropical park is municipal and buying city land like that, especially that much prime property in the middle of an urban area, is a battle in itself. like i said, it's not impossible, but you'd have to find the right person to lobby to the right politicians, have the right timing, and have the business plan to make it a profitable venture.

"also tropical park would come at extortion prices because the city has no reason to sell the land and we have no leverage to get it."

Exactly, and that is a huge, key issue. Baylor and other such schools that got their mid-sized stadiums built have one large advantage over us. Their cities or metro areas actually work with them and view them as partners. Miami-Dade is an extremely corrupt government and business atmosphere that would ***** over their grandmothers when cutting a deal. They have no loyalty to, or interest in, UM unless they can skim a lot off the top. The OB issue was fully and completely on the city. There's no reason to believe they would be any less cut throat when it comes to any other land they own.

Is the city running at a deficit?

 

[tjl1388]

i don't remember exact figures because this was 3 years ago, but tropical park would be the cost of the land, the cost of stadium construction, and somewhere around $14-20 million from the state to build direct on/off ramps to the stadium site off of the 826 to prevent bird and miller from clogging up. baylor's new stadium cost $266 million to build. it seats just under 45k and is probably the closest thing to what we need that we can judge costs from. i don't know what the construction cost index is for miami compared to waco, but it's definitely more expensive. also tropical park would come at extortion prices because the city has no reason to sell the land and we have no leverage to get it.

the other sites past the hammocks on the west side of the city were the cost of land, stadium construction costs, $125-175 million from the state alone to construct/expand new roads, and we actually ended up losing count of the property values of what would need to be demolished in order to widen the roads enough (it was in the hundreds of millions). that's all discounting the inevitable lawsuits from displaced businesses and homes if the state were to somehow claim eminent domain over those properties for highway road construction, which would also be fought tooth and nail by the city to begin with.

the biggest problem that we have isn't the fundraising, it's the politics. the lands out west would require the state to justify spending tons of money to displace homes and businesses as well as build roads to a stadium that would suit our needs, but isn't big enough to be a premier venue for shows/events. the potential for revenue at a site on the remote outskirts of the city isn't as high as it is at the existing stadium (sun life). tropical park is municipal and buying city land like that, especially that much prime property in the middle of an urban area, is a battle in itself. like i said, it's not impossible, but you'd have to find the right person to lobby to the right politicians, have the right timing, and have the business plan to make it a profitable venture.

"also tropical park would come at extortion prices because the city has no reason to sell the land and we have no leverage to get it."

Exactly, and that is a huge, key issue. Baylor and other such schools that got their mid-sized stadiums built have one large advantage over us. Their cities or metro areas actually work with them and view them as partners. Miami-Dade is an extremely corrupt government and business atmosphere that would ***** over their grandmothers when cutting a deal. They have no loyalty to, or interest in, UM unless they can skim a lot off the top. The OB issue was fully and completely on the city. There's no reason to believe they would be any less cut throat when it comes to any other land they own.

Is the city running at a deficit?

Do Cubans like coffee and guava pastries?

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

This board has been insufferable, but great posts here by db.

Half the people calling for a feasibility study here have had to copy and paste the term to maintain its proper spelling. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't been done. And if UM was smart, they'd have a bunch of smart, ambitious, and incentivized grad students turn in a bunch of feasibility studies -- see if any young, bright minds had any ideas they may have missed -- and at absolutely no cost to them!

/ohwait

I assume your talking to me? Why don't you just respond to my post if so?

It's not that UM isn't smart, it's that the priority is not there. There is no urgency to get this done for the program.

The thing is, you're assuming that you know what has been done behind the scenes.

You--and others--are assuming that UM admin has never taken even the most basic of steps to pursue a stadium. You guys are acting as though you're the first ones to ever think of doing a feasibility study on the issue. You're rigid in your belief that the UM admin simply doesn't care and hasn't considered its options.

IMO, that's an awful lot of poor assumptions.

 

[Hegemon]

I want someone to go back and show me where I said this is a new issue.

Please enlighten me.

Your only saving grace was if you thought this was a new issue. The fact that you know you're beating a dead horse and STILL ***** about it says even more about you.

Stop typing please. It's tired and played out.

The fact you don't want people commenting on it says you support stagnation and mediocrity. Get over it princess.

 

[tokengator]

This board has been insufferable, but great posts here by db.

Half the people calling for a feasibility study here have had to copy and paste the term to maintain its proper spelling. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't been done. And if UM was smart, they'd have a bunch of smart, ambitious, and incentivized grad students turn in a bunch of feasibility studies -- see if any young, bright minds had any ideas they may have missed -- and at absolutely no cost to them!

/ohwait

I assume your talking to me? Why don't you just respond to my post if so?

It's not that UM isn't smart, it's that the priority is not there. There is no urgency to get this done for the program.

The thing is, you're assuming that you know what has been done behind the scenes.

You--and others--are assuming that UM admin has never taken even the most basic of steps to pursue a stadium. You guys are acting as though you're the first ones to ever think of doing a feasibility study on the issue. You're rigid in your belief that the UM admin simply doesn't care and hasn't considered its options.

IMO, that's an awful lot of poor assumptions.

You are assuming just as much as he is.

The person you are quoting is asking if anyone can provide proof that these studies are done. The responses are nothing but assumptions that these studies have likely been done. "Likely done many times over" is what you said, i believe.

"likely" means you don't know. You are assuming. Given your assumption you think these type of studies should be a given and the duties of someone that is thorough. So if these studies were not done? What then?

 

[AntwanJ306]

Just to add another thing in here that the usual posters won't understand......

You clowns are blaming Blake James, our "glorious athletic director". Have you ever considered that a project of this size would need to be started way above his head? Like at the BOT level? The f'ing athletic director doesn't kick start a hundred million dollar project.

 

[AntwanJ306]

I want someone to go back and show me where I said this is a new issue.

Please enlighten me.

Your only saving grace was if you thought this was a new issue. The fact that you know you're beating a dead horse and STILL ***** about it says even more about you.

Stop typing please. It's tired and played out.

The fact you don't want people commenting on it says you support stagnation and mediocrity. Get over it princess.

No, I support stupidity, because it is entertaining. Keep writing, please.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

This board has been insufferable, but great posts here by db.

Half the people calling for a feasibility study here have had to copy and paste the term to maintain its proper spelling. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't been done. And if UM was smart, they'd have a bunch of smart, ambitious, and incentivized grad students turn in a bunch of feasibility studies -- see if any young, bright minds had any ideas they may have missed -- and at absolutely no cost to them!

/ohwait

I assume your talking to me? Why don't you just respond to my post if so?

It's not that UM isn't smart, it's that the priority is not there. There is no urgency to get this done for the program.

The thing is, you're assuming that you know what has been done behind the scenes.

You--and others--are assuming that UM admin has never taken even the most basic of steps to pursue a stadium. You guys are acting as though you're the first ones to ever think of doing a feasibility study on the issue. You're rigid in your belief that the UM admin simply doesn't care and hasn't considered its options.

IMO, that's an awful lot of poor assumptions.

You are assuming just as much as he is.

The person you are quoting is asking if anyone can provide proof that these studies are done. The responses are nothing but assumptions that these studies have likely been done. "Likely done many times over" is what you said, i believe.

"likely" means you don't know. You are assuming. Given your assumption you think these type of studies should be a given and the duties of someone that is thorough. So if these studies were not done? What then?

I'm not assuming anything other than that the UM admin isn't stupid and does care about their jobs. It's a pretty basic assumption, and I'm willing to give the same benefit of doubt to most folks until they prove otherwise.

At no time has the UM admin ever flatly denied looking at options. Therefore I assume that they have looked at options, since that is part and parcel of their job.

 

[dookie blaylock]

the problem with a land lease is that the city still has the leverage and they'll still gouge. we need their cooperation more than they need ours. they could just lease us enough land for the stadium itself, but keep the controlling interest of the parking lots, which are a huge revenue generator (which is a reason why the orange bowl lease sucked so bad for us). they could (and should if they are smart) also charge a percentage of our annual revenue per terms of the lease, then collect city tax revenue on top of that. if we buy the land, we only have to pay the tax to them. they're not going to give us a lease for some negligible amount because the park is still popular with the public. if you're going to put together a capital campaign for a stadium, you play for keeps.

It depends on the length and the terms, which would be really difficult to speculate. It is always good when you have a city that needs money because they're running at a deficit.

Side note: Land leases are common where I work and land is much more scarce in my city. In exchange for developing (99 year lease) rights the tenant makes PILOT payments the city and possibly supply some affordable housing. Usually at the end of the land lease there is an option to purchase the land at a set amount.

if the city would be fine with a land lease that's not for housing or a public work, i would have to say that's advantageous.

now on the subject of feasibility studies and whether or not they have happened. paul dee was one of my professors (actually was in the last class he ever taught and he passed shortly after) and he mentioned having done them prior to our lease at sun life because the city was stone-walling on the orange bowl renovations and refused to ease up the terms of the lease that we had then. we definitely did at least one in the early 2000s, but i can't comment on whether or not they've been done since 2006.

 

[Consigliere]

go look at a map and try to find an undeveloped 100 acre piece of land that's less than 1 mile from a highway, all within 15 miles of campus. you can't. that's the city's leverage.

parks are public works and a sunk cost, so it's not like tropical park is designed to be a source of revenue. how much should we lease the land for? if it's anything less than $1 million/year (which would be very low), why would the city even take a sniff?

city to hold events? if someone is putting an event together and wants an outdoor venue, why would they go to our stadium when sun life (which will be overhauled by then) has 30% more capacity and easier access to the broward market? does the city have to train its own staff to run the building or are they going to pay the stadium management company to do that?

we have zero leverage because we have zero other options. we need their land, they don't need our stadium.

Why does it have to be 15 miles from campus when we play 20+ miles from campus as is?

If the City is running at a deficit, perhaps the additional REVENUE would be beneficial as opposed to just paying to run tropical park (security, police, park admin, landscapers etc.). If we lease the land, we take it from the city and we control it. It becomes our responsibility. If it is our responsibility, we pay all those parties (stadium management etc.).

The reason you hold events in different places is because your event has different requirements. If you want to have an indoor event in front of 7000 people, you don't want to book No Life. Perhaps the event coordinator wants an event in Miami and not Miami Gardens. The reason you might not want No Life is the same reason we don't want No Life. If we only use 60% of the stadium, perhaps we want a more intimate feel. If a HS wants to use it (Public Use) we could let them use it.

It doesn't have to be the city, it could be other groups as well (i.e. concert promoters). A land lease benefits everyone.

Let's not forget that Miami employs a ton of people in the Miami-Dade area. In addition, some of these people are incredibly wealthy and have a ton of influence (Berkowitz, Chaplain, Havernik etc.). It could get done.

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

This board has been insufferable, but great posts here by db.

Half the people calling for a feasibility study here have had to copy and paste the term to maintain its proper spelling. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't been done. And if UM was smart, they'd have a bunch of smart, ambitious, and incentivized grad students turn in a bunch of feasibility studies -- see if any young, bright minds had any ideas they may have missed -- and at absolutely no cost to them!

/ohwait

I assume your talking to me? Why don't you just respond to my post if so?

It's not that UM isn't smart, it's that the priority is not there. There is no urgency to get this done for the program.

The thing is, you're assuming that you know what has been done behind the scenes.

You--and others--are assuming that UM admin has never taken even the most basic of steps to pursue a stadium. You guys are acting as though you're the first ones to ever think of doing a feasibility study on the issue. You're rigid in your belief that the UM admin simply doesn't care and hasn't considered its options.

IMO, that's an awful lot of poor assumptions.

Please enlighten us with real information then please. If not, kindly shut up and wipe the drool from the corner of your mouth.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

Why would I take a stab at your hypothetical? Your hypothetical is nonsense. What if the queen had balls? Then she'd be the king. Another nonsensical hypothetical. So a guy is going to make a $350 million investment and then unload it and demolish it any time soon? SLS has not really been touched since it opened in 1987 and it's a dual use facility. That's 27 years. But I'll play your game, if the stadium is going to be demolished in 25 years from now, then a new stadium will replace it. The question is whether it will be privately funded like Joe Robbie did or funded via bonds publicly.

Wow. Okay new hypo since you're incapable of answering the other one.

The year is 20XX and we have 8 years on our lease. Ross knows that we have no other options (like in the past). Being a smart negotiator and unsympathetic to our needs, he decides to make it extremely unfavorable to use No Life (during negotiations). We have 8 years to plan an attack.

What do we do? Do we disband the football program?

As condescending as you are, I'll answer your question. If a guy makes a $350 million investment in a facility and wants to negotiate such unfavorable terms to the university then I guess we're screwed. But that's not how business necessarily works and Ross has never given any indication he wants to ***** the university. As a matter of fact, if the university moves out then the facility goes dormant for 6 to 7 Saturdays in the fall. That's not good business.

 

[bigpurk45]

Tropical park football stadium. That is all

This... been saying it for a while