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our defense will take a step back, but so will the offenses we face

E1k said:
Lol… i love the talent we have now too but depth doesn’t replicate the impact of two superstar edges who played like 80% of the snaps in alot of games
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I think they're better, hence my original statement.
 
canecrazy23 said:
I think Thorton will thrive in this scheme.
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He's a short area downhill Nickel.

He doesn't have the same capabilities in coverage that Scott or Jakobe had.

He's great in run support as basically like a Nickel LB/STAR, he's a heatseeking missile as a Blitzer.

But he struggled quite a bit in coverage his first 2 seasons at Boston College. That's where the separation is with him & Scott or Jakobe. They both were very savvy coverage Defenders with versatility in being able to play multiple spots as Nickels & Safeties.

Thornton is more limited in that he's really only shown he can play as a SS close to the LOS, from the hashes. He very rarely was in deep coverage plays beyond 15yds.

As long as he's not put in a position to have to cover consistently, he should be great.
 
Only thing I can really add to the obvious here is there’s some really encouraging signs from a coaching/development standpoint with this staff

Scott was such an elite player but I remember when he got hurt…we didn’t really miss a beat. Not downplaying his importance, and a long term injury would have probably highlighted it more, but we are more than just a team with talent

Absolutely cannot replace 3 and 4 but you add in coaching and development to a guy like Blount, Lightfoot…Wilson might be getting the best coaching of his career

If Mesidor can develop into a 1st rounder here who’s to say what some of these other guys can do?
 
Flynell7 said:
For as great as Mesidor was last season it’s very disingenuous to say that was expected. It’s a testament to his hard work and JT’s coaching.

For that reason I’m excited to see what the highly rated younger guys can do at DE
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His foot issue set him back here. Then he was asked to carry too much weight to play inside. Which was unfair especially with his foot problems. I’ve been arguing for him for three years how good he is but injuries kept killing his momentum. Losing the weight and getting more flexible was the game changer.
 
Scott’s blitzing last year was fun to watch. Picturing Thornton in that role just feels like he was made to be that violent, just kill the ballcarrier attitude Heatherman wants
 
Memnon said:
He's a short area downhill Nickel.

He doesn't have the same capabilities in coverage that Scott or Jakobe had.

He's great in run support as basically like a Nickel LB/STAR, he's a heatseeking missile as a Blitzer.

But he struggled quite a bit in coverage his first 2 seasons at Boston College. That's where the separation is with him & Scott or Jakobe. They both were very savvy coverage Defenders with versatility in being able to play multiple spots as Nickels & Safeties.

Thornton is more limited in that he's really only shown he can play as a SS close to the LOS, from the hashes. He very rarely was in deep coverage plays beyond 15yds.

As long as he's not put in a position to have to cover consistently, he should be great.
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I’m going to push back slightly.
  1. We all have recency bias. Thomas and Scott were legit stars in this defense, but they both dropped in the draft because they only had one year of good tape. Neither were nearly as impactful before getting in the Heatherman scheme. If I recall, Scott’s coverage is what was questioned. Who is to say Thornton couldn’t make a similar leap? Especially because he’s shown more in his time at BC than either two guys did pre-Miami.
  2. Thornton played for BC. I don’t even care about stats here. He has never had this level of talent around him to both lift his game and cover up for any weaknesses. A could coordinator also plays to his guys’ strengths.
I believe we could see a big leap in his production this year.
 
CreativeCane said:
I’m going to push back slightly.
  1. We all have recency bias. Thomas and Scott were legit stars in this defense, but they both dropped in the draft because they only had one year of good tape. Neither were nearly as impactful before getting in the Heatherman scheme. If I recall, Scott’s coverage is what was questioned. Who is to say Thornton couldn’t make a similar leap? Especially because he’s shown more in his time at BC than either two guys did pre-Miami.
  2. Thornton played for BC. I don’t even care about stats here. He has never had this level of talent around him to both lift his game and cover up for any weaknesses. A could coordinator also plays to his guys’ strengths.
I believe we could see a big leap in his production this year.
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I agree with your overall message and have stated multiple times I expect defense to be better. Thomas did NOT drop in draft, lol.. I have said multiple times his story should be highlighted more, Tenn. fans are still perplexed how a backup for them was able to thrive for us and actually get drafted. Thomas was on NONE of the nfl scouts radars or boards before season!

Multiple of the nfl guys after the fsu game were like oh I have to look into him.. Still after season he wasnt talked about, heck even our OWN fans answer when he was drafted was "wHy iS KeIoNte nOt dRaFteD yEt".. Dude got drafted in 3rd round top 100 pick.. He had incredible year and made it to league.. Its still mind blowing to think about and should be sold more honestly..
 
skyman said:
CreativeCane said:
I’m going to push back slightly.
  1. We all have recency bias. Thomas and Scott were legit stars in this defense, but they both dropped in the draft because they only had one year of good tape. Neither were nearly as impactful before getting in the Heatherman scheme. If I recall, Scott’s coverage is what was questioned. Who is to say Thornton couldn’t make a similar leap? Especially because he’s shown more in his time at BC than either two guys did pre-Miami.
  2. Thornton played for BC. I don’t even care about stats here. He has never had this level of talent around him to both lift his game and cover up for any weaknesses. A could coordinator also plays to his guys’ strengths.
I believe we could see a big leap in his production this year.
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I agree with your overall message and have stated multiple times I expect defense to be better. Thomas did NOT drop in draft, lol.. I have said multiple times his story should be highlighted more, Tenn. fans are still perplexed how a backup for them was able to thrive for us and actually get drafted. Thomas was on NONE of the nfl scouts radars or boards before season!

Multiple of the nfl guys after the fsu game were like oh I have to look into him.. Still after season he wasnt talked about, heck even our OWN fans answer when he was drafted was "wHy iS KeIoNte nOt dRaFteD yEt".. Dude got drafted in 3rd round top 100 pick.. He had incredible year and made it to league.. Its still mind blowing to think about and should be sold more honestly..
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Maybe “dropped” isn’t the right word but “didn’t go higher”
 
Memnon said:
He's a short area downhill Nickel.

He doesn't have the same capabilities in coverage that Scott or Jakobe had.

He's great in run support as basically like a Nickel LB/STAR, he's a heatseeking missile as a Blitzer.

But he struggled quite a bit in coverage his first 2 seasons at Boston College. That's where the separation is with him & Scott or Jakobe. They both were very savvy coverage Defenders with versatility in being able to play multiple spots as Nickels & Safeties.

Thornton is more limited in that he's really only shown he can play as a SS close to the LOS, from the hashes. He very rarely was in deep coverage plays beyond 15yds.

As long as he's not put in a position to have to cover consistently, he should be great.
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Memnon said:
He's a short area downhill Nickel.

He doesn't have the same capabilities in coverage that Scott or Jakobe had.

He's great in run support as basically like a Nickel LB/STAR, he's a heatseeking missile as a Blitzer.

But he struggled quite a bit in coverage his first 2 seasons at Boston College. That's where the separation is with him & Scott or Jakobe. They both were very savvy coverage Defenders with versatility in being able to play multiple spots as Nickels & Safeties.

Thornton is more limited in that he's really only shown he can play as a SS close to the LOS, from the hashes. He very rarely was in deep coverage plays beyond 15yds.

As long as he's not put in a position to have to cover consistently, he should be great.
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Using Thorton is one of the ways i think we will set the edge on run plays. His strength as a downhill player will be one of Miami’s adjustments
 
Memnon said:
canecrazy23 said:
I think Thorton will thrive in this scheme.
Click to expand...
He's a short area downhill Nickel.

He doesn't have the same capabilities in coverage that Scott or Jakobe had.

He's great in run support as basically like a Nickel LB/STAR, he's a heatseeking missile as a Blitzer.

But he struggled quite a bit in coverage his first 2 seasons at Boston College. That's where the separation is with him & Scott or Jakobe. They both were very savvy coverage Defenders with versatility in being able to play multiple spots as Nickels & Safeties.

Thornton is more limited in that he's really only shown he can play as a SS close to the LOS, from the hashes. He very rarely was in deep coverage plays beyond 15yds.

As long as he's not put in a position to have to cover consistently, he should be great.
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Thomas wasnt that good in coverage before he came here. He improved some last year but he still wasn’t great. He was at his best coming down hill. It’s interesting they say Thornton didn’t play nickel in the spring. I’m wondering do they see him in thomas role or are they going to give him nickel reps in fall camp
 
Josh said:
Did anyone call Mesidor a “superstar” edge before the season? Bain was coming off a year he didn’t play much and Mesi was moving to DE after we fattened him up like Chickilo and played him inside. While I absolutely agree you can expect a slight drop off from last year, let’s not pretend like anyone saw the dominance off the edge coming last year.
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Who cares? He played like a superstar so replacing him won’t be easy

This logic of oh nobody saw it coming so that must mean someone else will play at a first round level like he did?..I think we will have a top dline but we literally had the best pass rush in the country by far last year, so it will be more than a “slight drop off”

That doesn’t mean we can’t win a natty with what we have
 
E1k said:
Josh said:
Did anyone call Mesidor a “superstar” edge before the season? Bain was coming off a year he didn’t play much and Mesi was moving to DE after we fattened him up like Chickilo and played him inside. While I absolutely agree you can expect a slight drop off from last year, let’s not pretend like anyone saw the dominance off the edge coming last year.
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Who cares? He played like a superstar so replacing him won’t be easy

This logic of oh nobody saw it coming so that must mean someone else will play at a first round level like he did? I think we will have a top dline but we literally had the best pass rush in the country by far last year, so it will be more than a “slight drop off”

That doesn’t mean we can’t win a natty with what we have
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Who cares? We’re projecting ahead, that’s the whole discussion. The logic is that we have an elite DC and DE coach with a room loaded with 5 stars and elite body types. Who says Wilson doesn’t perform like a superstar and go first round? We’re sure as **** paying him like that’s the expectation.
 
Cribby said:
Flynell7 said:
For as great as Mesidor was last season it’s very disingenuous to say that was expected. It’s a testament to his hard work and JT’s coaching.

For that reason I’m excited to see what the highly rated younger guys can do at DE
Click to expand...
His foot issue set him back here. Then he was asked to carry too much weight to play inside. Which was unfair especially with his foot problems. I’ve been arguing for him for three years how good he is but injuries kept killing his momentum. Losing the weight and getting more flexible was the game changer.
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He was healthy for the most part. He was only really hurt 2023. He played about 3 games that year. Led the team in sacks 3 out of his 4 years
 
I don't expect much drop off. If Lowe gets his **** together, he will be a starter at some point in the season. Wilson on the other side. 2 5 star talents. Middle should be better with Scott and Moten. I expect secondary to be better. LB a wash. Good enough D to win a Natty
 
Bender said:
I hate to be the guy saying this, but it takes one bad hit to our QB and our season is ruined.

We got lucky with injuries last season. It's not a given that this will happen again.
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So you mean like in 83, 87, 89, 91, and 01?
 
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