OT Wisconsin burying Michigan

[Number1CanesFan]

They recuit better offensive lineman AND develop them. Im not sure whats your point.

They are in a part of the country where kids that size grow on trees, just like we are smack dab in the skill position capital in the country.

Under my analogy we should/would have a solid offensive line...but would be their 2nd year in this offensive system.

Wisconsin has been running the same offensive system for over 20 years....literally

WTF are you talking about? They DON'T recruit better. Not according to recruiting rankings and evaluations. They don't recruit anywhere close to Alabama. A full star difference. From 2015-2020, Wisconsin has had on 6 4-star offensive linemen and 4 of them were in the last 2 years. Meanwhile, Alabama has had 3 5-star and 18 4-star offensive linemen over the same period. Yet, Wisconsin puts nearly as many offensive linemen into the NFL as Alabama.

What Wisconsin does do is identify the traits that they can develop into top linemen. That can be duplicated.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Number 1 is straight forward and plenty of programs try to do similar things with some succeeding. Wisconsin has been doing it for decades, not one cycle. The other 2 aren’t rocket science either, they come with real costs and real work. Numbers 2 and 3 are nearly impossible for Miami. Manny Diaz doesn’t get to send his boys up to Wisconsin to job shadow their program. South Florida has some of the most athletically gifted hardest working toughest monsters around and is a deep athletic pool. The difference is the culture in south Florida versus middle of nowhere wisconsin is night and day.

The real problem is when Miami takes the 4 star camp stud skating by on talent who doesn’t put in the work or develop. Miami also doesn’t take the 3 or 4 star worker that wants to be here because he isn’t prototype size/speed/athleticism or they spurn him for pipe dream recruits. They roll the dice hard and it doesn’t always work. If Miami went the Wisconsin culture route the team would be littered with undersized or unathletic players who made up for it with work and aggression. They’d also have more than their fair share of Rudy’s on the roster. You don’t get to steal a culture and only implement it for the offensive line. For example a guy like Andy Garcia is a PWO at UCF, not here. Westley Neal, Frank Gore Jr., Gabe Taylor, Tutu Atwell, Elijah Moore, Restrepo, Bandy etc... You don’t get to drop local die hards when the way more talented bandwagon divas want on board.

Not all of those guys blow up into studs or even contribute but if you want that Wisconsin culture you don’t get to spurn local guys that are bought in 100% and will play at the college level.

I said " offensive linemen culture." Period. They can meet with Wisconsin coaches about offensive linemen development and/or meet with coaches who have coached there under their offensive line system.

That's next level coaching that even the best coaches in America understand there may be a better way of doing things and are willing to learn from others.

 

[Patreek]

I said " offensive linemen culture." Period. They can meet with Wisconsin coaches about offensive linemen development and/or meet with coaches who have coached there under their offensive line system.

That's next level coaching that even the best coaches in America understand there may be a better way of doing things and are willing to learn from others.

So you believe Miami’s coaches can be taught by Wisconsin’s coaches everything needed because?

and

You also believe you can implement a culture specific to only one position group within a football program?

I want to make sure I’m understanding you.

 

[TemplarCane]

Here is the deal with Michigan-Ohio State. People are always saying, "Michigan just isn't at OSU's level," and "Michigan has unrealistic expectations."

But here is the thing. Michigan was the better program until the new millennium. The Bo vs Woody rivalry leaned advantage Michigan. Lloyd Carr dominated Jon Cooper in the 90s. Ohio State seldomly won big games between Woody and Tressell. The things people say now about the rivalry simply meaning more to the Buckeyes, the same thing was said about Michigan before 2001.

But then enter Tressell. He completely changed the direction of OSU and the Michigan rivalry. Perhaps forever. People give the credit to Urban and Day. But they just took over where Tressell left off. Tressell got the Buckeyes to believe they could beat Michigan, and to believe they could win national titles. They did both. They hadn't done so before him.

It also just so happened that recruiting and recruiting sites became what they are today during the Tressell era. It changed recruiting trends, and then and now, more than ever before, recruits became interested in going to high-end, winning programs over any other criteria. Tressell may have grandfathered OSU into the elite class just in time, and Michigan was unable to hold on as the dominant program in that rivalry for as long as they needed to.

Without Tressell's impact on the Buckeyes, they are where Michigan is today, and Michigan is more or less where Auburn or Georgia are on the national landscape. But the damage has been done to the Wolverines, and they may now be in a permanent state of mediocrity while OSU competes for national titles annually and indefinitely.

Tressel was a great coach. Without the Terry Porter call, he still went toe-to-toe with Miami.

Had he not screwed up with the tscandal OSU would have kept on rolling and not hired Urban Meyer.

 

[NorthEastCane]

Agree to disagree. Some of it can be duplicated. But some definitely can’t.

Miami might need to double its student body in order to have more bodies to pull from.

Not necessary

Miami would need to make a walk-on program that recruits, coaches, and trains as if the guys were scholarship players.

Walk on should be trained as scholarship players. If not, that's a major fail

Miami would have to overpay for a proven offensive line coach to stay long term.

If he's proven, it wouldn't be over paying. Wisconsin's not Bama and Richt got the pay scales increased for assistant coaches. It's a question of priorities. Does Miami believe OL is important or not?

Miami would have to sit incoming OL recruits for 3 years and the guys actually stay.

That's right. That's what everyone's been saying on this board for three years. It's what we used to do. We're still playing catch with lack of depth. Just look at yesterday where we had no alternative but to play Scaife. Also, we have to deal with the So Fla mind set of playing early and 3 and out.

Miami might have stop playing a spread offense and install an offense that showcases the offensive line like Wisconsin does.

Strong offensive play is not particular to a 3 yards and cloud of dust offense. We can have strong line play in a spread, west coast, pro set up or whatever. You just have to be specific with your evaluations to recruit players that are a fit. They will still need 3 years strength and development.

Miami would have to install a culture nearly the polar opposite of the turnover chain or of the South Florida “all ‘bout me” Instagram warrior dawgs.

I agree this would be the biggest obstacle and is what I was referring to about changing the culture and mind set. But we've done it before.

Miami would have to have winning seasons consistently.
Miami would have to consistently put some of these OL in the NFL and have them succeed there.

Granted we haven't had a LT drafted in the top 10 picks of the draft but we have plenty of OL in the NFL. Look at some of DMoney's posts about UM linemen in the NFL.

The odds of Miami implementing anywhere close to everything I listed above is very close to zero.

Justice seems to be trying to turn a corner. The only alternative is to give up and become a mid-major team.

There's nothing that you suggested that's not doable and hasn't been done by UM in the past. It's primarily a commitment by Manny. and brining in someone to coach them up. I'm hoping it's Justice but Manny has to take the lead with the culture change which has swung to an extreme.

 

[TemplarCane]

Fickell is a former Buckeye player and coach. Ohio-bred. He is not taking the Michigan job. He will stay at Cincinnati and wait for Day to return to the NFL. Day was on Chip Kelly’s Philadelphia and San Francisco staffs. If he gets impatient and the money is too much to turn down he takes a P5 job out of the Big 10.

Leonard is not leaving Whiskey for a Big 10 job. He stays at Whiskey, or takes Fickell’s route and a G5 HC job for the experience, and returns later to replace Chryst.

Matt Campbell would be a solid choice for Michigan. He’s also Ohio-bred and coached at Bowling Green and Toldeo. He knows the recruiting scene in the Midwest.

 

[305to954]

Why not?. If you were trying to duplicate Alabama's offensive line, then you'd have a near impossible task of getting top recruits at evey position. That is not the case for Wisconsin as they get mostly 3-star recruits. Any program can duplicate their philosophy, recruitment, and development. It's just a willingness to learn from them and do so. They've built a culture.

ask Big Brett if he duplicated that down at Arky. A lot of what they do up there works so well has to do with location and there own expectations . Tryna duplicate cultures from different locations at other place very rarely work. There has to be a fit. They’ve been doing what they do since Barry

 

[305to954]

Don Brown please

Could you imagine what our fans would be saying if Brown had some of the bad performances here that he had a Michigan..

 

[Number1CanesFan]

So you believe Miami’s coaches can be taught by Wisconsin’s coaches everything needed because?

and

You also believe you can implement a culture specific to only one position group within a football program?

I want to make sure I’m understanding you.

I make a point and you try to stetch it into something else. The point is that coaches should be looking at teams that are successful in areas where we are weak. Wisconsin has a blocking system that has been proven successfull without having the best players.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

ask Big Brett if he duplicated that down at Arky. A lot of what they do up there works so well has to do with location and there own expectations . Tryna duplicate cultures from different locations at other place very rarely work. There has to be a fit. They’ve been doing what they do since Barry

NO. Offensive linemen have their own culture. Has nothing to with where you're from. Wisconsin has given the blueprint for recruiting and developing offensive linemen.

 

[305to954]

NO. Offensive linemen have their own culture. Has nothing to with where you're from. Wisconsin has given the blueprint for recruiting and developing offensive linemen.

Huh?? Offensive lineman have their own culture..ok. Not sure what that means. But I still stand by what I said. What they do works for them. They take advantage of their recruiting ground up there and run a system that fits..that ain’t flying in south Florida

 

[TemplarCane]

Wisconsin reminds me of Nebraska circa 1980-1990s.

Different offense, of course, but they had an identity and rolled out OL after OL.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Huh?? Offensive lineman have their own culture..ok. Not sure what that means. But I still stand by what I said. What they do works for them. They take advantage of their recruiting ground up there and run a system that fits..that ain’t flying in south Florida

Stop being a phuking dope. Blocking is blocking regardless of a spread, traditional, and everything in between.

 

[305to954]

Stop being a phuking dope. Blocking is blocking regardless of a spread, traditional, and everything in between.

No ******* **** lmao. That’s not what the discussion was about. It’s about the Wisconsin culture that’s been going on since Barry A. What they do can’t be duplicated everywhere. Ask Brett B when he tried to bring that **** to the SEC

 

[Number1CanesFan]

No ******* **** lmao. That’s not what the discussion was about. It’s about the Wisconsin culture that’s been going on since Barry A. What they do can’t be duplicated everywhere. Ask Brett B when he tried to bring that **** to the SEC

Muther ***** I said offensive line culture from my first post. Yes. Is does exist. Find someone else to troll Dipstick.

You have no arguement making dumb *** comments that (I'm paraphrasing) Wisconsin is just a one trick run blocking pony. Meanwhile their QB has 75% competitions in 2 games. Great blocking travels regarless of your system which is what I've said. You try to move the goal post by claiming I said we should move to a Wisconsin system and culture which I never said.

Obviously, you don't know football. We have a zone running and blocking scheme. So, does Wisconsin. There is no spread blocking scheme. The spread is for the skill players.

All conversation was and is about their offensive line. So, STFU and move on!!! I'm done.

 

[ssvir]

Watching that game as a Michigan fan with the WR jet sweep must have felt like being a Miami fan against Maryland with the WR screen.

 

[CreamCityCane]

You say it can't, but it can. You give no reason to support your position. In fact l, you make mine. As you said, "it's not rocket science"

1. Figure out their evaluation system. Easy to do. Look at the history of their top linemen. Look at their testing numbers. Did they play multiple sports? What kind of player are they mentally? Etc. All researchable. All gettable because these are not the top rated or recruited players. They are mostly 3-star recruits. You need the guys with the Wisconsin traits.

They are almost exclusively multi-sport athletes. Upper Midwest can’t play football year ‘round due to winter weather so they play another sport. Lots of wrestlers for the balance and footwork.

Basketball and wrestling also keep the weight down. They look for guys 6’4” - 6’6” and 260-280 lbs in HS and then they put on weight under the control of SC & nutrition staff. It’s pretty rare for Wisconsin to be recruiting kids who have lots of bad weight as HS athletes

Look at the frames of these kids versus Walker or Rivers at 6’5” 330. I’m not taking a shot at those two as both could be really good players, but just pointing out the difference in philosophy

 

[305to954]

Muther ***** I said offensive line culture from my first post. Yes. Is does exist. Find someone else to troll Dipstick.

You have no arguement making dumb *** comments that (I'm paraphrasing) Wisconsin is just a one trick run blocking pony. Meanwhile their QB has 75% competitions in 2 games. Great blocking travels regarless of your system which is what I've said. You try to move the goal post by claiming I said we should move to a Wisconsin system and culture which I never said.

Obviously, you don't know football. We have a zone running and blocking scheme. So, does Wisconsin. There is no spread blocking scheme. The spread is for the skill players.

All conversation was and is about their offensive line. So, STFU and move on!!! I'm done.

Who said Wisconsin is a one trick pony? There QB was the number 1 rated pro style QB coming out..wtf brought up spread offenses?? Wtf are u rambling about?

It’s about there culture as a program. Which is built on how they develop the kids they get from their recruiting hot bet on both sides of the LOS. Those type of kids aren’t found in south Florida. And those kids up there would not be flocking to play down here. Therefore, no their culture that was built up by Barry A and fits that region they recruit in would not work down here. It didn’t even work at Arky and Brett B surely tried to implement it. Now go head and take that blood pressure medicine and calm tf down..**** ain’t that serious for u to be cussing and using multiple explanation marks

 

[305to954]

They are almost exclusively multi-sport athletes. Upper Midwest can’t play football year ‘round due to winter weather so they play another sport. Lots of wrestlers for the balance and footwork.

Basketball and wrestling also keep the weight down. They look for guys 6’4” - 6’6” and 260-280 lbs in HS and then they put on weight under the control of SC & nutrition staff. It’s pretty rare for Wisconsin to be recruiting kids who have lots of bad weight as HS athletes

Look at the frames of these kids versus Walker or Rivers at 6’5” 330. I’m not taking a shot at those two as both could be really good players, but just pointing out the difference in philosophy

That region produces those kids annually. Down here not so much. They smartly geared their programs philosophy in player development to be if it the kids that region produces

 

[Brains]

Fickell is a former Buckeye player and coach. Ohio-bred. He is not taking the Michigan job. He will stay at Cincinnati and wait for Day to return to the NFL. Day was on Chip Kelly’s Philadelphia and San Francisco staffs. If he gets impatient and the money is too much to turn down he takes a P5 job out of the Big 10.

Leonard is not leaving Whiskey for a Big 10 job. He stays at Whiskey, or takes Fickell’s route and a G5 HC job for the experience, and returns later to replace Chryst.

Matt Campbell would be a solid choice for Michigan. He’s also Ohio-bred and coached at Bowling Green and Toldeo. He knows the recruiting scene in the Midwest.

Bo Schembechler coached under Woody Hayes and was a GA at O$U. Gary Moeller played at O$U.

Didn't stop them from taking the Michigan job. If Michigan doubles Fickell's salary, he goes.