forums

OT: UM Law School

For_The_U said:
If your plan is to have your own shop, you can take "Top 100" out of that sentence above. As a solo prac it doesn't matter whatsoever where you went for law school. In fact, some of the absolute worst lawyers I've crossed paths with came from some of the biggest name schools.
Click to expand...

And some of the most successful solos come from the smaller schools in the area.
 
Advertisement
For_The_U said:
If your plan is to have your own shop, you can take "Top 100" out of that sentence above. As a solo prac it doesn't matter whatsoever where you went for law school. In fact, some of the absolute worst lawyers I've crossed paths with came from some of the biggest name schools.
Click to expand...

yes, it matters. Clients care where you went to law school. I’ve hired many lawyers over the years. I always check where they went to law school.
 
MaximoCane said:
yes, it matters. Clients care where you went to law school. I’ve hired many lawyers over the years. I always check where they went to law school.
Click to expand...
LOL If it makes you feel better to hire a lawyer who went to an Ivy League school, cool, you do you. I speak from a decade of having my own civil litigation practice when I say that in the solo prac world, it is basically irrelevant what the name of the school is on your law degree. It's a word of mouth industry, and you'll get (or lose) clients based on how good of a lawyer you are, not which law school you attended. That's because going to a good law school has little to no bearing on how good of a lawyer someone is. Unless you're trying to swim in the Gucci world of law, nobody gives a sh-t where you went to school.
 
UProspect said:
Alum here. Graduated in '12. Doing well, but no thanks to UM or its "network." Advice above is correct and is the same as it was when I was considering--if you're going to stay in Miami and your target job/firm recruits heavy Miami ***AND*** you get scholarship money then go for it.

Otherwise, FSU, UF and FIU are better and significantly cheaper schools.

EDIT:
Because of its lower rankings, even to in state public schools, firms will only recruit the cream of the crop from UM Law. If you are not top 5-10 with some extra-curricular badges on your belt, you may as well be an Ave Maria grad.
Click to expand...
Thank you
 
JTKoval said:
That’s pretty much it. I went to the U for undergrad. But law school is a professional school. That’s more of a career cost/benefit analysis. UM’s law school isn’t a national one. So, as a northeast kid, I left for the northeast and a top 25 school. Back when I was starting out, most interviews started with something about me graduating from a good law school. It helps. Lawyers tend to be resume whores. Anyway, good luck.
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
Got my job through OCI at UM Law. Graduated magna *** laude. Was editor in chief of the IALR. Have been at the same firm since leaving school. Practice plaintiffs mass tort and do very well. UM Law helped me with some of the connections to get where I am but I still had to hustle and work hard. Once you have your first job, the law school you went to doesn’t really matter. Literally no one asks that now. It’s all about hustle, moxie, and perseverance. Good luck.
 
As much as I wanted to attend UM Law 15 years ago, I ultimately turned it down to attend a state school in the middle of nowhere. And as a guy who grew up in Broward, that sucked. But I’ve paid my student loans off rather easily a few years back. Meanwhile, my sister, who attended grad school at UM, is saddled to this day with 6 figure debt. I feel I made the right choice.

Today, I work in Manhattan in an in-house gig covering finance legal matters. I don’t even think they teach courses on that where I went to school. But I grinded hard, got my CFA charter and every lawyer I met up here knows that’s harder to achieve than a law degree from [insert school name]. I’m not saying this to toot my own horn, I’m saying this to tell you where you go to school isn’t dispositive of what you can do. I’m happy I chose to go where I did and save myself from serious debt.
 
Advertisement
For_The_U said:
LOL If it makes you feel better to hire a lawyer who went to an Ivy League school, cool, you do you. I speak from a decade of having my own civil litigation practice when I say that in the solo prac world, it is basically irrelevant what the name of the school is on your law degree. It's a word of mouth industry, and you'll get (or lose) clients based on how good of a lawyer you are, not which law school you attended. That's because going to a good law school has little to no bearing on how good of a lawyer someone is. Unless you're trying to swim in the Gucci world of law, nobody gives a sh-t where you went to school.
Click to expand...

Also depends on what kind of law you want to do. Litigation especially personal injury and things of that nature, yeah it doesn't really matter much. But if you want to do large scale class action suits, products liability, or ANY kind of corporate work then the school absolutely matters. Personally, I'm trying to finesse my way into a GC position at a private equity shop or big company up here in NYC and these snobby Wall Street ***** won't give you the time of day if you don't have the resume.

But I agree school has absolutely ZERO impact on how good a lawyer is going to be. I was constantly baffled as to how some of my classmates made it in to law school at all, zero practical skills.
 
George84 said:
Got my job through OCI at UM Law. Graduated magna *** laude. Was editor in chief of the IALR. Have been at the same firm since leaving school. Practice plaintiffs mass tort and do very well. UM Law helped me with some of the connections to get where I am but I still had to hustle and work hard. Once you have your first job, the law school you went to doesn’t really matter. Literally no one asks that now. It’s all about hustle, moxie, and perseverance. Good luck.
Click to expand...
I know you hustled just to get those grades and law review, so please do not take this the wrong way in any way, shape, or form. However, this story is great for 20% of the students at UM each year, but for 80% of the students that are not magna or sigma, the OCI process is worthless and the career center is of no help in any part of the job search.

The school does an awful job of helping connect students with alums at boutique or solo firms and an even worse job of reaching out to them for internships or clerkships. They are similarly terrible at connecting with large companies that hire attorneys out of school. Big 4 accounting is the easiest, and most personal, example for me, but investment banks love attorneys for analytical skills. You are pretty much left on your own to navigate, network, and find those jobs if you are not in the top 20%.

Much like the football team, the law school is absolutely stuck in a by-gone era and showed zero ability to pivot to the changing legal world to better serve students paying a lot of money to go there.
 
If you are planning on staying in SoFla, apply to all the local schools and make your decision once you receive all their aid/scholarship packages. That's Nova, FIU, St. Thomas, and Miami. Also apply to Stetson; it's over on the west coast but they are nationally ranked in trial advocacy. Best of luck!
 
For_The_U said:
LOL If it makes you feel better to hire a lawyer who went to an Ivy League school, cool, you do you. I speak from a decade of having my own civil litigation practice when I say that in the solo prac world, it is basically irrelevant what the name of the school is on your law degree. It's a word of mouth industry, and you'll get (or lose) clients based on how good of a lawyer you are, not which law school you attended. That's because going to a good law school has little to no bearing on how good of a lawyer someone is. Unless you're trying to swim in the Gucci world of law, nobody gives a sh-t where you went to school.
Click to expand...

People do give a ****. They don’t have to go to an Ivy League school but I like a baseline. So I’m fine with a UCLA for example (I live in CA). I love how all the folks who went to second rate schools think it doesn’t matter. Lol. Sure there are exceptions but if had to pick randomly from 100 UCLA or Stanford grads I’m gonna end up with better lawyers than if I picked randomly from 100 from no name law school. Keep lying to yourself tho.
 
MaximoCane said:
People do give a ****. They don’t have to go to an Ivy League school but I like a baseline. So I’m fine with a UCLA for example (I live in CA). I love how all the folks who went to second rate schools think it doesn’t matter. Lol. Sure there are exceptions but if had to pick randomly from 100 UCLA or Stanford grads I’m gonna end up with better lawyers than if I picked randomly from 100 from no name law school. Keep lying to yourself tho.
Click to expand...
Strange hill you're choosing to die on here, bud. Again, maybe YOU get your rocks off by making sure the lawyers you pay to hire have paper credentials from a top law school. If that makes you feel better about the money you spent, fantastic! But the topic of this thread is whether someone going to law school should consider Miami. The reality is the era of "better school = better job" is gone, and has been gone for quite a while. ****, I know many people with JDs who aren't even practicing. It's getting better than it was 5+ years ago, but it's still a very challenging job market right now for new law grads. And my point is that in many (I'd argue most) areas of practice in the legal industry these days, where you got your degree really has no bearing whatsoever. MAYBE it will increase your odds of getting that first interview; maybe, though possibly not even that (factors like class rank, involvement with law review or mock trial, practical experience, etc, all vastly more important for that first interview/hire). After that, unless you're trying for certain high level jobs, it is **** near meaningless in regards to how it will impact one's professional career in law.

The fact there are some people out there like you who won't hire a lawyer unless they came from a top school shouldn't be a factor in anyone's analysis as to the law school they are choosing. The concept of someone being worried they won't be able to get clients because their JD isn't from a top law school is simply asinine. All those top degrees do is open career doors like internships and associate positions at huge firms, judicial clerkships, etc. If that's not a career path someone is interested in then, no, they shouldn't try and go to a top school out of this weird conjectural fear you're trying to give off that clients won't hire you if you don't have a top school's name on your degree. That is nonsense.
 
TacoCane said:
But I agree school has absolutely ZERO impact on how good a lawyer is going to be. I was constantly baffled as to how some of my classmates made it in to law school at all, zero practical skills.
Click to expand...
100%. It's absolutely dumbfounding. That's why MaximoCanes's comment above was so off base. Law school doesn't make anyone a "good lawyer".
 
Advertisement
For_The_U said:
LOL If it makes you feel better to hire a lawyer who went to an Ivy League school, cool, you do you. I speak from a decade of having my own civil litigation practice when I say that in the solo prac world, it is basically irrelevant what the name of the school is on your law degree. It's a word of mouth industry, and you'll get (or lose) clients based on how good of a lawyer you are, not which law school you attended. That's because going to a good law school has little to no bearing on how good of a lawyer someone is. Unless you're trying to swim in the Gucci world of law, nobody gives a sh-t where you went to school.
Click to expand...
This times 100. The school you went to only matters in the beginning when you are trying to get hired for your first job or two. After that no one cares, including 99% of your clients. It's your reputation and ability to generate referrals/new business that matters.

The only exceptions I can think of federal judicial clerkships and biglaw. Some elitist judges will only take clerks from certain schools, and some law firms will almost exclusively hire from a small select group of elitist schools. Other than that, your pedigree doesn't matter.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For_The_U said:
Strange hill you're choosing to die on here, bud. Again, maybe YOU get your rocks off by making sure the lawyers you pay to hire have paper credentials from a top law school. If that makes you feel better about the money you spent, fantastic! But the topic of this thread is whether someone going to law school should consider Miami. The reality is the era of "better school = better job" is gone, and has been gone for quite a while. ****, I know many people with JDs who aren't even practicing. It's getting better than it was 5+ years ago, but it's still a very challenging job market right now for new law grads. And my point is that in many (I'd argue most) areas of practice in the legal industry these days, where you got your degree really has no bearing whatsoever. MAYBE it will increase your odds of getting that first interview; maybe, though possibly not even that (factors like class rank, involvement with law review or mock trial, practical experience, etc, all vastly more important for that first interview/hire). After that, unless you're trying for certain high level jobs, it is **** near meaningless in regards to how it will impact one's professional career in law.

The fact there are some people out there like you who won't hire a lawyer unless they came from a top school shouldn't be a factor in anyone's analysis as to the law school they are choosing. The concept of someone being worried they won't be able to get clients because their JD isn't from a top law school is simply asinine. All those top degrees do is open career doors like internships and associate positions at huge firms, judicial clerkships, etc. If that's not a career path someone is interested in then, no, they shouldn't try and go to a top school out of this weird conjectural fear you're trying to give off that clients won't hire you if you don't have a top school's name on your degree. That is nonsense.
Click to expand...

You are dying on the hill. I like hiring people who I know have what it takes to get into a good law school. It manages my down side risk. Never said that there aren’t good lawyers who went to crappy law schools, but given there are so many lawyers to choose from, why not have a high bar. I know this is very hard for you to accept since you’ve gone to a so so law school (wouldn’t call Miami a crap law school but certainly not a great one). It’s ok man. I’m sure you did the best you could and have carved out a nice little career. No Shane in that.
 
wspcane said:
I know you hustled just to get those grades and law review, so please do not take this the wrong way in any way, shape, or form. However, this story is great for 20% of the students at UM each year, but for 80% of the students that are not magna or sigma, the OCI process is worthless and the career center is of no help in any part of the job search.

The school does an awful job of helping connect students with alums at boutique or solo firms and an even worse job of reaching out to them for internships or clerkships. They are similarly terrible at connecting with large companies that hire attorneys out of school. Big 4 accounting is the easiest, and most personal, example for me, but investment banks love attorneys for analytical skills. You are pretty much left on your own to navigate, network, and find those jobs if you are not in the top 20%.

Much like the football team, the law school is absolutely stuck in a by-gone era and showed zero ability to pivot to the changing legal world to better serve students paying a lot of money to go there.
Click to expand...

obviously you had a rough experience with the CDO, but my experience was different.

I’d also add that things seem to be trending in the right direction with the new dean.
 
Emilioooooh said:
This times 100. The school you went to only matters in the beginning when you are trying to get hired for your first job or two. After that no one cares, including 99% of your clients. It's your reputation and ability to generate referrals/new business that matters.

The only exceptions I can think of federal judicial clerkships and biglaw. Some elitist judges will only take clerks from certain schools, and some law firms will almost only hire from a small select group of schools. Other than that, your pedigree doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

This is just not true. The only people who saw the school only matters for your first job are the people who went to crappy schools and desperately want to believe this. Just not true.
 
Back
Top