OT: The Last Dance

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I did not say they were bums. You are making that up.

They were good players but nothing like a Pippen or a Rodman or even a Grant back in the early 90s.

Plus Phil got that team together and had them do their part like a orchestration Master.

The coaching for Bron has been okay but he basically willed that team against the Warriors.

I don't even think Jordan with Love and Irving come close to doing that BUT it is hard to compare eras.
LBJ has dealt with average coaching for most of his career because he wanted to. He could never play for Phil. When he had Spo as his coach they butted heads all the time. Why? Because in his mind, he's the coach, GM, and everything in between.
 
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I don't even think Jordan with Love and Irving come close to doing that BUT it is hard to compare eras.
Stop it. That's ridiculous. Jordan was better suited to play that Warriors team than LBJ. And Jordan would have trusted his coach. Unlike what LeBron does...which is whatever he wants and has the coach as his lap dog.
 

Colombie

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Stop it. That's ridiculous. Jordan was better suited to play that Warriors team than LBJ. And Jordan would have trusted his coach. Unlike what LeBron does...which is whatever he wants and has the coach as his lap dog.
Jordan could not win it when he came back from baseball with Pippen and lost to the Magic.
People always forget they needed a Rodman to win.

But once again I am not going to argue about a hypothetical Jordan in this era type of thing. I am just giving my two cents.
 
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This is not a congeniality and personality competition.
Winning a Championship without a good coach is a positive in my book no matter how you spin it.
I am not spinning anything, at all. Winning a championship without a great coach is a heck of an accomplishment. Winning a championship with an average coach because you are globally known in the basketball world as uncoachable is not good. And his 2/7 record in the Finals has been impacted by it.

His teams lost in the Finals to a less talented Mavericks team. And a less talented Spurs team. The difference was coaching.
 
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Jordan could not win it when he came back from baseball with Pippen and lost to the Magic.
People always forget they needed a Rodman to win.

But once again I am not going to argue about a hypothetical Jordan in this era type of thing. I am just giving my two cents.
Yes, he lost in the playoffs after being two years away from the game. Let's think about that.
 

Colombie

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I am not spinning anything, at all. Winning a championship without a great coach is a heck of an accomplishment. Winning a championship with an average coach because you are globally known in the basketball world as is not good. And his 2/7 record in the Finals has been impacted by it.
He may have had his misunderstanding with coaches but "uncoachable" seems a bit far-fetched.
Either way it does not really belong in the GOAT on the court debate. Especially with how social media blows thing up these days.
If Jordan had that back in the day I think he would be portrayed as an abrasive guy who got into fights with teammates and gambling addict but that is just the way he is.
Not really what we are debating here.
 

305to954

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Why are we acting like Kevin love and Kyrie Irving are bums? These guys were Top 10 at their positions (arguably Top 5) when they won.

And we gonna act like Lebron wasn't playing with a Top 50 player all time in Wade? A top all time 3 point sniper with Ray Allen? A top PF in Bosh?

I can acknowledge that Jordan had a better supporting cast like you mentioned, but we gotta stop with this Lebron never had a supporting cast narrative. He's just not the killer that Mike was. That :42 second sequence to put the Jazz away? Lebron can't do that. That series goes to 7 games with him. Mike said **** all that, this ends tonight.

It's crazy. All the people who have seen Bill Russell, Wilt, Jerry West, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Mike, Kobe, Shaq, and Lebron -- all say Mike is the best they've ever seen. Most of those greats except for Lebron himself (understandably) will tell you that Mike is the best to ever do it.

Well, actually Mike won't tell you that either (but we all know he was just being humble).



When you're the King, you don't have to tell everybody. It's already understood.
The same reason A lot of ppl act like Grant, Scottie, Rodman, Harper, tony K were just OK role players🤷🏾‍♂️ We all know Bulk of the credit goes to THE GUY.

Until proven otherwise. Neither Kyrie or Love saw Team and franchise success before LBJ..Now that’s not to say they were bum players..top Ten at their positions, sure no doubt..but let me ask u something...do you view kyrie in the same light as you did when he was with Bron..all things considered..honestly. Seeing what you see from him now, is that conducive to leading a team? Leadership goes a long way bro.

Kyrie still has time to develop that but on the track he’s on I don’t see it happening unless he get a Mans man as a coach like a Mark Jackson..KD and Kyrie alone in Boston without a strong coach, IMO won’t reach its talent potential.

as for K love. He can ball. But he ain’t leading a team no where. He’s a 3rd option on a championship caliber team. And that still makes him a baller
 

Gooner#44

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Jordan could not win it when he came back from baseball with Pippen and lost to the Magic.
People always forget they needed a Rodman to win.

But once again I am not going to argue about a hypothetical Jordan in this era type of thing. I am just giving my two cents.
:jordan: :jordan: :jordan:
 

Colombie

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Without a good rebounding machine he is not laughing.
Rodman saved their arses a lot in the second three -peat
 
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I did not say they were bums. You are making that up.

They were good players but nothing like a Pippen or a Rodman or even a Grant back in the early 90s.

Plus Phil got that team together and had them do their part like a orchestrate Master.

The coaching for Bron has been okay but he basically willed that team against the Warriors.

I don't even think Jordan with Love and Irving come close to doing that BUT it is hard to compare eras.
I read what you said, but you were short changing them. Kevin Love was more than an above average Big Man. Kyrie was more than a very good Point Guard. These guys were All Stars and All NBA players. Kevin Love certainly was a better than what Horace Grant was who made the All Star Game only once in his entire career.

The 73 win Golden State team wasn't even as good as the teams they had with Durant if that tells you something. Not taking anything away from what Lebron did in the series, but they were one the more overrated teams in NBA history.
 
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The same reason A lot of ppl act like Grant, Scottie, Rodman, Harper, tony K were just OK role players🤷🏾‍♂️ We all know Bulk of the credit goes to THE GUY.

Until proven otherwise. Neither Kyrie or Love saw Team and franchise success before LBJ..Now that’s not to say they were bum players..top Ten at their positions, sure no doubt..but let me ask u something...do you view kyrie in the same light as you did when he was with Bron..all things considered..honestly. Seeing what you see from him now, is that conducive to leading a team? Leadership goes a long way bro.

Kyrie still has time to develop that but on the track he’s on I don’t see it happening unless he get a Mans man as a coach like a Mark Jackson..KD and Kyrie alone in Boston without a strong coach, IMO won’t reach its talent potential.

as for K love. He can ball. But he ain’t leading a team no where. He’s a 3rd option on a championship caliber team. And that still makes him a baller
Who has said such a thing? Where they at? The documentary literally devotes entire episodes to how good these guys were, going so far as to say one of the main reasons they didn't win Mike came back was bc they didn't have Grant.

I've never been a big Kyrie fan so this question is hard for me to answer. I've never thought much of him. Certainly Lebron elevated his game. Anyone who argues otherwise is being foolish. But buddy has always been a baller.
 

305to954

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Who has said such a thing? Where they at? The documentary literally devotes entire episodes to how good these guys were, going so far as to say one of the main reasons they didn't win Mike came back was bc they didn't have Grant.

I've never been a big Kyrie fan so this question is hard for me to answer. I've never thought much of him. Certainly Lebron elevated his game. Anyone who argues otherwise is being foolish. But buddy has always been a baller.
my barber was telling me that 3 days ago 😂 that ***** in boca if u want a word with him lol..you got Orlando buddy in this thread earlier bring up graphics like MJ didn’t have teammates..then you got that mofo Skip bayless who been saying it for years lol..
 

305to954

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I read what you said, but you were short changing them. Kevin Love was more than an above average Big Man. Kyrie was more than a very good Point Guard. These guys were All Stars and All NBA players. Kevin Love certainly was a better than what Horace Grant was who made the All Star Game only once in his entire career.

The 73 win Golden State team wasn't even as good as the teams they had with Durant if that tells you something. Not taking anything away from what Lebron did in the series, but they were one the more overrated teams in NBA history.
When was kyrie all NBA?? PG it goes:
Steph
Dame
Brodie
Kemba
Kyrie
If Wall ever gets the knee right he up there too.
 

TheOriginalCane

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It's too late to make amends for either side if Phil is coaching the Lakers. The bottomline is Reinsdorf should've never let it escalate it to that pt. He should've realized that he was presiding over a once in a lifetime situation, and should've helped to reconcile the differences between the players & mgmt. He instead chose to fan the flames of the fire, by maintaining a hardline posture with regards to Pippen's contract situation. What the hell does the Bulls organization gain by being dogged & stubborn with Pippen when he was performing at a high level and helping to deliver championships? Yes, he's the one that signed the questionable contract, but it's also true that he outperformed it, and played an integral role in driving increased NBA revenue in the 90's. At no time in his career with the Bulls should Pippen have been the 122nd highest paid player in the league, and the front office should have capitulated and thrown him a bone.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out that even AFTER everything was said and done, Krause continued to hold a grudge. Phil, while driven out by his dislike of Krause, was still willing to make amends. Krause had nothing to lose, nothing to gain, he could have just had peace of mind, and he continued to be a jackass.

Again, this doesn't change Phil & Pippen leaving, it's just an indication that Krause was the most stubborn child of them all.
 

305to954

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I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out that even AFTER everything was said and done, Krause continued to hold a grudge. Phil, while driven out by his dislike of Krause, was still willing to make amends. Krause had nothing to lose, nothing to gain, he could have just had peace of mind, and he continued to be a jackass.

Again, this doesn't change Phil & Pippen leaving, it's just an indication that Krause was the most stubborn child of them all.
I’ve never seen a GM get this much blame as far as what happened in CHI. ALL OF IT falls at the feet of the owner. Krause work for him. Ownership should’ve stepped in
 
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