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OT: Taking the LSAT 8/29

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NateDogg said:
Over the years I have seen several posters mention that they are either lawyers or work in the legal field. I am just wondering if anyone has any tips to share from their experiences studying for the LSAT. After doing a little bit of research on LSAT prep, I decided (for now) against paying for the higher priced prep courses and chose to start with Mike Kim's LSAT Trainer book. I have also seen Powerscore mentioned as a strong option with good bang for your buck. Not averse to paying more for prep, but thought I would start with this and see how I feel after a few weeks.

Before any studying I took the test from the LSAC website (untimed) and scored a 153. After 2 weeks of studying I took another prep test, this one timed, and scored a 151. As of now I think my biggest room for improvement exists in the Logic Games and Logical Reasoning sections.
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Fantastic to hear, NateDogg! Congrats on being where you are now and good luck with your LSAT prep and score. I used a Kaplan course in Orlando. It was extensive, I want to say several days a week for a few months. The classes were a drag but they helped immensely. It was likely the repetition more than the course itself. Honestly, my best piece of advice would be to focus in really hard on what you're good at and not tear your hair out over what you aren't. I destroyed the logical reasoning section because that is how my brain is wired. Yet, no matter how much I practiced them, I never did well on the games. I'm not sure why that was, but also likely because of how my brain is wired. The Kaplan course taught some basic tricks to apply to the more simple style of games and that helped me a bit. But I quickly realized I wasn't going to ace the game portion, so I focused on acing the others and ultimately did. Also, Kaplan teaches this really bizarre approach to the reading comprehension. It's designed for slow readers, IMO, as it's a way to basically skim it and set markers in places then scan back for answers. That was a terrible approach for me as I am a fast reader and am strong at retention. I did WAY better just reading the **** thing, grasping it, and then answering normally, rather than throwing the traditional approach away for this new trick. But if you're running out of time on that section, you may want to look into the Kaplan method. I know it was successful for many, and I'm sure you can learn it somewhere on the interwebz without paying for it. Might be worth looking at their basic game strategies as well.

Excited for you, brother. Let me know if you have more questions or want to discuss things further. I'd be happy to offer any helpful thoughts I might have.

LSAT prep was very telling for your future as a lawyer, I felt. If prepping for it is torture or you just simply don't score well (already not your case), you genuinely may not end up enjoying practicing. On the other hand, if sections like logical reasoning come naturally to your brain, it's a strong sign that the legal industry may be a great fit for you. I came away very impressed with how well the LSAT, even though it seems strange and cryptic on the surface, gauges one's potential as a lawyer. Of course, as with most generalizations, that won't prove true across the board.
 
Honest question to OP.....Why do you want to go to Law School?

I only ask because people with law degrees are, i believe, one of the most under employed subset of the educated population.

You will spend A LOT of time and money which might not be worth it in the end.
 
NateDogg said:
Over the years I have seen several posters mention that they are either lawyers or work in the legal field. I am just wondering if anyone has any tips to share from their experiences studying for the LSAT. After doing a little bit of research on LSAT prep, I decided (for now) against paying for the higher priced prep courses and chose to start with Mike Kim's LSAT Trainer book. I have also seen Powerscore mentioned as a strong option with good bang for your buck. Not averse to paying more for prep, but thought I would start with this and see how I feel after a few weeks.

Before any studying I took the test from the LSAC website (untimed) and scored a 153. After 2 weeks of studying I took another prep test, this one timed, and scored a 151. As of now I think my biggest room for improvement exists in the Logic Games and Logical Reasoning sections.
Click to expand...


I would strongly recommend The Princeton Review to prep for the Games. I took the second-ever test under the "new" scoring system (120-180) and at the time, the TPR Games materials were in transition from the old test-writer (ACT) style to the new test-writer (ETS) style. Also, at the time, you could only get one sample test (which had never been administered). After that, I was one of the national trainers/testers for TPR's materials.

For the Arguments, you can also use TPR, but I would supplement with a couple of things. First, when I took a logic (Philosophy 110?) course at UM, we learned how to diagram conditional statements, and one of the things that the LSAT uses to DESTROY test-takers is the contra-positive. Learn it, master it, don't ***** it up, they test the contra-positive about a half-dozen times per test. The other thing you should work on is identifying key words such as always/some/never and the usage of "except" type words (they really like to use the word "except" in answer choices to flip the script and throw you off the scent). Finally, the skill you need to polish that will also help you on the bar exam is figuring out immediately which 2 or 3 answer choices are definitely wrong, and crossing them out. People drive themselves nuts trying to weigh the relative merits of 5 answer choices, but when the answer is partially wrong, it's all wrong, get rid of it.

Best of luck, you should definitely prep, the LSAT is unlike any other grad school test, and very unlike law school tests.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
I would strongly recommend The Princeton Review to prep for the Games. I took the second-ever test under the "new" scoring system (120-180) and at the time, the TPR Games materials were in transition from the old test-writer (ACT) style to the new test-writer (ETS) style. Also, at the time, you could only get one sample test (which had never been administered). After that, I was one of the national trainers/testers for TPR's materials.

For the Arguments, you can also use TPR, but I would supplement with a couple of things. First, when I took a logic (Philosophy 110?) course at UM, we learned how to diagram conditional statements, and one of the things that the LSAT uses to DESTROY test-takers is the contra-positive. Learn it, master it, don't ***** it up, they test the contra-positive about a half-dozen times per test. The other thing you should work on is identifying key words such as always/some/never and the usage of "except" type words (they really like to use the word "except" in answer choices to flip the script and throw you off the scent). Finally, the skill you need to polish that will also help you on the bar exam is figuring out immediately which 2 or 3 answer choices are definitely wrong, and cross them out. People drive themselves nuts trying to weigh the relative merits of 5 answer choices, but when the answer is partially wrong, it's all wrong, get rid of it.

Best of luck, you should definitely prep, the LSAT is unlike any other grad school test, and very unlike law school tests.
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Phenomenal advice.
 
My daughter just graduated from Law school. Congratulations on your decision. She used Kaplan to prepare for her LSAT. Based on her experiences transferring to a different law school is much more difficult than as a visiting student. Difference is as a transfer you essentially changed schools and will graduate at the new school. Keep in mind that scholarships you earn upon admission will not transfer to the new school whether it’s a transfer or a visiting status. Essentially you will be on the hook for the entire tuition because no school accepting you will offer you grants or scholarships. The school you transfer to could have an impact on the job you get upon graduation if you are aspiring to get into a big law firm in a high billable position or law. Otherwise not important. Finally if you switch schools as a visiting student you will be on pass fail status and it will not apply to your class rankings when you graduate. Not having a class ranking could impact landing a job at a big law firm or in a competitive position. Otherwise not important. I hope this helped you and I know a lot is putting the cart before the horse.
 
htownkidd said:
7Sage Prep, thank me later.

Logic Games are the easiest to improve. Do them over and over and over again. It becomes second nature. Good luck.
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I came across their website and it looks very reasonably priced for what is offered-thanks for the recommendation.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I would strongly recommend The Princeton Review to prep for the Games. I took the second-ever test under the "new" scoring system (120-180) and at the time, the TPR Games materials were in transition from the old test-writer (ACT) style to the new test-writer (ETS) style. Also, at the time, you could only get one sample test (which had never been administered). After that, I was one of the national trainers/testers for TPR's materials.

For the Arguments, you can also use TPR, but I would supplement with a couple of things. First, when I took a logic (Philosophy 110?) course at UM, we learned how to diagram conditional statements, and one of the things that the LSAT uses to DESTROY test-takers is the contra-positive. Learn it, master it, don't ***** it up, they test the contra-positive about a half-dozen times per test. The other thing you should work on is identifying key words such as always/some/never and the usage of "except" type words (they really like to use the word "except" in answer choices to flip the script and throw you off the scent). Finally, the skill you need to polish that will also help you on the bar exam is figuring out immediately which 2 or 3 answer choices are definitely wrong, and crossing them out. People drive themselves nuts trying to weigh the relative merits of 5 answer choices, but when the answer is partially wrong, it's all wrong, get rid of it.

Best of luck, you should definitely prep, the LSAT is unlike any other grad school test, and very unlike law school tests.
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TPR called that process of elimination (POE). It seems so intuitive, but most people don't do it by nature.

That also works for any standardized test.
 
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JD08 said:
TPR called that process of elimination (POE). It seems so intuitive, but most people don't do it by nature.

That also works for any standardized test.
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Absolutely. They started teaching POE for the SAT, where there was a guessing "penalty" (it's not really a penalty), but it is especially helpful on the LSAT or bar exam when you need to give an answer to every question (i.e., no guessing "penalty").

If you use POE well, it's like getting partial-credit. If you score high on the test, it really helps your time management, but it can certainly add points to your score if you are in the middle part of the bell curve.
 
Go Canes!! said:
We’ll done young man.

Good luck on your exam.
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I probably should have mentioned that I just turned 36. Always was intrigued by law and love to participate in debates with friends and family. about a month ago it just hit me one day and I couldn't stop thinking about "well, if it's something I want to do, why not take the LSAT and see?"

What I just recently learned is that the only school that I plan to apply to (Albany Law School), while having a rich history, has fallen on hard times in recent years. They appointed a new President within the last decade or so and one of her jobs was to essentially save the law school, lol. Long story short, they were able to reach an agreement with SUNY Albany to partner but remain separate institutions. For SUNY's help in essentially bailing them out, Albany Law developed a couple of programs for current SUNY Albany students interested in pursuing law...but how about SUNY Albany graduates? How do you like it-if I get accepted I would get a minimum scholarship of $20,000 per year as a SUNY Albany graduate. I am also not disqualified from other grants/aid/scholarships.

My goal is to get a 160 which would put me above their 25th percentile. Coupled with my resume (MBA and I've worked in banking the last 8+ years before taking my current job as a controller/general manager of a small business in Oct '19) I am hopeful it would make me a strong candidate.

Really appreciate all of the replies, thanks!
 
For_The_U said:
Fantastic to hear, NateDogg! Congrats on being where you are now and good luck with your LSAT prep and score. I used a Kaplan course in Orlando. It was extensive, I want to say several days a week for a few months. The classes were a drag but they helped immensely. It was likely the repetition more than the course itself. Honestly, my best piece of advice would be to focus in really hard on what you're good at and not tear your hair out over what you aren't. I destroyed the logical reasoning section because that is how my brain is wired. Yet, no matter how much I practiced them, I never did well on the games. I'm not sure why that was, but also likely because of how my brain is wired. The Kaplan course taught some basic tricks to apply to the more simple style of games and that helped me a bit. But I quickly realized I wasn't going to ace the game portion, so I focused on acing the others and ultimately did. Also, Kaplan teaches this really bizarre approach to the reading comprehension. It's designed for slow readers, IMO, as it's a way to basically skim it and set markers in places then scan back for answers. That was a terrible approach for me as I am a fast reader and am strong at retention. I did WAY better just reading the **** thing, grasping it, and then answering normally, rather than throwing the traditional approach away for this new trick. But if you're running out of time on that section, you may want to look into the Kaplan method. I know it was successful for many, and I'm sure you can learn it somewhere on the interwebz without paying for it. Might be worth looking at their basic game strategies as well.

Excited for you, brother. Let me know if you have more questions or want to discuss things further. I'd be happy to offer any helpful thoughts I might have.

LSAT prep was very telling for your future as a lawyer, I felt. If prepping for it is torture or you just simply don't score well (already not your case), you genuinely may not end up enjoying practicing. On the other hand, if sections like logical reasoning come naturally to your brain, it's a strong sign that the legal industry may be a great fit for you. I came away very impressed with how well the LSAT, even though it seems strange and cryptic on the surface, gauges one's potential as a lawyer. Of course, as with most generalizations, that won't prove true across the board.
Click to expand...

Thanks, appreciate all of the info!
 
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NateDogg said:
I probably should have mentioned that I just turned 36. Always was intrigued by law and love to participate in debates with friends and family. about a month ago it just hit me one day and I couldn't stop thinking about "well, if it's something I want to do, why not take the LSAT and see?"

What I just recently learned is that the only school that I plan to apply to (Albany Law School), while having a rich history, has fallen on hard times in recent years. They appointed a new President within the last decade or so and one of her jobs was to essentially save the law school, lol. Long story short, they were able to reach an agreement with SUNY Albany to partner but remain separate institutions. For SUNY's help in essentially bailing them out, Albany Law developed a couple of programs for current SUNY Albany students interested in pursuing law...but how about SUNY Albany graduates? How do you like it-if I get accepted I would get a minimum scholarship of $20,000 per year as a SUNY Albany graduate. I am also not disqualified from other grants/aid/scholarships.

My goal is to get a 160 which would put me above their 25th percentile. Coupled with my resume (MBA and I've worked in banking the last 8+ years before taking my current job as a controller/general manager of a small business in Oct '19) I am hopeful it would make me a strong candidate.

Really appreciate all of the replies, thanks!
Click to expand...
I too did not decide to pursue law until I was in my 30s. Best decision I ever made.... well, second best. THE best was getting alcohol out of my life on 11/29/18, but that is a close runner up. You are 36 years young, my man! You'll also have a huge leg up on most of your classmates who are fresh out of undergrad. I was an old married man by that point. Lol. So my focus was solely on doing well in school, not all the stuff most of my classmates were focused on (which is the same kind of sh-t I too was focused on back when I was 21). That's a massive advantage for you, IMO.
 
NateDogg said:
I probably should have mentioned that I just turned 36. Always was intrigued by law and love to participate in debates with friends and family. about a month ago it just hit me one day and I couldn't stop thinking about "well, if it's something I want to do, why not take the LSAT and see?"

What I just recently learned is that the only school that I plan to apply to (Albany Law School), while having a rich history, has fallen on hard times in recent years. They appointed a new President within the last decade or so and one of her jobs was to essentially save the law school, lol. Long story short, they were able to reach an agreement with SUNY Albany to partner but remain separate institutions. For SUNY's help in essentially bailing them out, Albany Law developed a couple of programs for current SUNY Albany students interested in pursuing law...but how about SUNY Albany graduates? How do you like it-if I get accepted I would get a minimum scholarship of $20,000 per year as a SUNY Albany graduate. I am also not disqualified from other grants/aid/scholarships.

My goal is to get a 160 which would put me above their 25th percentile. Coupled with my resume (MBA and I've worked in banking the last 8+ years before taking my current job as a controller/general manager of a small business in Oct '19) I am hopeful it would make me a strong candidate.

Really appreciate all of the replies, thanks!
Click to expand...
You will be in a good spot at 160. May also help you get scholarships.
 
NateDogg said:
I probably should have mentioned that I just turned 36. Always was intrigued by law and love to participate in debates with friends and family. about a month ago it just hit me one day and I couldn't stop thinking about "well, if it's something I want to do, why not take the LSAT and see?"

What I just recently learned is that the only school that I plan to apply to (Albany Law School), while having a rich history, has fallen on hard times in recent years. They appointed a new President within the last decade or so and one of her jobs was to essentially save the law school, lol. Long story short, they were able to reach an agreement with SUNY Albany to partner but remain separate institutions. For SUNY's help in essentially bailing them out, Albany Law developed a couple of programs for current SUNY Albany students interested in pursuing law...but how about SUNY Albany graduates? How do you like it-if I get accepted I would get a minimum scholarship of $20,000 per year as a SUNY Albany graduate. I am also not disqualified from other grants/aid/scholarships.

My goal is to get a 160 which would put me above their 25th percentile. Coupled with my resume (MBA and I've worked in banking the last 8+ years before taking my current job as a controller/general manager of a small business in Oct '19) I am hopeful it would make me a strong candidate.

Really appreciate all of the replies, thanks!
Click to expand...

I started my business 20 years ago at age 35. You’re still young man in my book!

Always be climbing!
 
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I was broke af when I took it, so I did 7sage, but instead of paying for it, I just looked at the source code and snagged the videos.

Also there may possibly, potentially, may be a torrent file on a certain pirate ship website that has all of the available LSAT tests. That's your best resource. Do a couple of weeks of the 7sage and then test test.
 
TacoCane said:
I was broke af when I took it, so I did 7sage, but instead of paying for it, I just looked at the source code and snagged the videos.

Also there may possibly, potentially, may be a torrent file on a certain pirate ship website that has all of the available LSAT tests. That's your best resource. Do a couple of weeks of the 7sage and then test test.
Click to expand...
Start your law career by breaking the law. I like it.
 
I’d second the recommendation for the Powerscore Bible. They are particularly helpful for learning the logic games. If you require more structure, you may invest in an actual course but I never did one.

Other than that, I’d recommend taking as many LSAT practice tests as possible. When I was doing it, the actual tests were available on Amazon.
 
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