forums

OT national sports betting

Advertisement
I don't know the specifics but I recall hearing one of the most prominent attorneys specializing in sports wagering (he's also based in South Florida) saying that Florida will strangely be one of the later states to get on board with it. It may actually have to do with the current compact the state has with the Indian tribes.

Nonetheless, this is still great news. I'm always in favor of more freedoms. Now legalize hard liquor sales in supermarkets from coast to coast.
 
Count me as skeptical. When Delaware was attempting to promulgate legislation legalizing sports betting some 5+ years ago, they were going to limit it to parlays. No winning gambler parlays absent a teaser or some sort of hedge built in (i.e. two games are parlayed, the latter of which is MNF and can be hedged out if the first game was Sunday and won).

IIRC, Delaware was thinking of getting somewhat crafty and having one of the parlay bets be "Over/Under 0.5 points scored by both teams", which thus would have everyone bet "Over" for the win of this "parlay" with another bet on the spread or total. Pretty ingenious, but it was shot down.

Until we know for sure that juice is -110 or less and single bets are acceptable, not just parlays, this doesn't mean much to me.
 
Poptimus said:
Count me as skeptical. When Delaware was attempting to promulgate legislation legalizing sports betting some 5+ years ago, they were going to limit it to parlays. No winning gambler parlays absent a teaser or some sort of hedge built in (i.e. two games are parlayed, the latter of which is MNF and can be hedged out if the first game was Sunday and won).

IIRC, Delaware was thinking of getting somewhat crafty and having one of the parlay bets be "Over/Under 0.5 points scored by both teams", which thus would have everyone bet "Over" for the win of this "parlay" with another bet on the spread or total. Pretty ingenious, but it was shot down.

Until we know for sure that juice is -110 or less and single bets are acceptable, not just parlays, this doesn't mean much to me.
Click to expand...

Again, I'm not an attorney but this Supreme Court ruling clears the way for individual states to dictate their own rules regarding sports wagering. So seemingly if it's a weak sauce product in one locale then it'll just be based on that individual state's preference- ie like Utah with the alcohol content in beer.

Based on the proliferation of casinos around the country I assume a ton of states are going to rush to open full on sportsbooks.
 
Tad Footeball said:
Again, I'm not an attorney but this Supreme Court ruling clears the way for individual states to dictate their own rules regarding sports wagering. So seemingly if it's a weak sauce product in one locale then it'll just be based on that individual state's preference- ie like Utah with the alcohol content in beer.

Based on the proliferation of casinos around the country I assume a ton of states are going to rush to open full on sportsbooks.
Click to expand...
The thing I don't understand is that proliferation of casinos, while certainly real, never bothered to legalize sports gambling as far as I know. And yet Native American casinos are on sovereign lands, governed by tribal laws. So why couldn't the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino or the Seminole Creek Hotel & Casino have had sports gambling since inception? They don't abide by our laws to begin with.

I think Vegas lobbyists remain fiercely aggressive and with their hands in state politicians' pockets we see permissive parlay cards at gas stations in some states much like lottery tickets are currently sold. Until I see otherwise I refuse to believe you'll have state-regulated sportsbooks taking single wagers with reasonable juice. The Native Americans should have just legalized it years ago, full-blown Vegas style.
 
Advertisement
Tad Footeball said:
I don't know the specifics but I recall hearing one of the most prominent attorneys specializing in sports wagering (he's also based in South Florida) saying that Florida will strangely be one of the later states to get on board with it. It may actually have to do with the current compact the state has with the Indian tribes.

Nonetheless, this is still great news. I'm always in favor of more freedoms. Now legalize hard liquor sales in supermarkets from coast to coast.
Click to expand...
States have opportunity to reap the benefits of allowing sports betting. They can charge a fee to any entity that wants to open a betting parlor (as they do throughout Europe). The states can also get a percent of all revenue generated by sports betting. Lastly, the people betting can be taxed on its winnings. This will be a major factor to states allowing sports betting to balance their yearly budgets.
 
dont matter to me...its. s.fla theres 30 bookies within walking distance to hard rock stadium that i go to lol
 
I live in NJ. I’ll be heading over to Atlantic City as soon as they open the sportsbooks in a couple weeks.
 
You’ll be able to bet at Magic City, Hialeah and Hard Rock in Hollywood before you know it.

This was the last roadblock, it will be a tidal wave.
 
Advertisement
Go Canes!! said:
You’ll be able to bet at Magic City, Hialeah and Hard Rock in Hollywood before you know it.

This was the last roadblock, it will be a tidal wave.
Click to expand...

Those Indians are going to jump on this whether Florida shot callers say they can or not. They know its going to be a tsunami of money coming into those sportsbooks. They are not going to let some suit and tie from Tallahassee stand in there way. Even if they have to grease the right palms.
 
Don't get excited about sports gambling in Florida yet. The deal the state has with the Indian tribes will kill that idea quickly. The Indian tribes would prefer that gambling gets limited to their casinos and their casinos only. Does anyone remember all the hooplah that went along with allowing casinos at the pari mutuels? How long was it before they finally cleared all the red tape and even then, they were still limited to certain types of games. Maybe...the Indians will open a sports book but don't get too excited about it yet.
 
DTP said:
Don't get excited about sports gambling in Florida yet. The deal the state has with the Indian tribes will kill that idea quickly. The Indian tribes would prefer that gambling gets limited to their casinos and their casinos only. Does anyone remember all the hooplah that went along with allowing casinos at the pari mutuels? How long was it before they finally cleared all the red tape and even then, they were still limited to certain types of games. Maybe...the Indians will open a sports book but don't get too excited about it yet.
Click to expand...
This. The Seminole Indians have a deal with the State that would have to be rewritten to accommodate sports gambling. Apparently, they entered into this awful deal in order to get exclusive rights to slots outside of South Florida and to have approval for table games at all Seminole casinos.

Basically, the Seminoles entered into a retarded deal that is now handcuffing themselves from partaking in sports gambling unless they want Florida to revoke their exclusivity with slots and authority re: table games. The Seminoles gambled and lost, pun intended. Quite frankly, they should have never waived their sovereign status and entered into such a deal with Florida to begin with. They could have offered sports gambling all along. What was their concern, that another Indian tribe was going to cut in on its slots revenue?
 
Advertisement
Poptimus said:
This. The Seminole Indians have a deal with the State that would have to be rewritten to accommodate sports gambling. Apparently, they entered into this awful deal in order to get exclusive rights to slots outside of South Florida and to have approval for table games at all Seminole casinos.

Basically, the Seminoles entered into a retarded deal that is now handcuffing themselves from partaking in sports gambling unless they want Florida to revoke their exclusivity with slots and authority re: table games. The Seminoles gambled and lost, pun intended. Quite frankly, they should have never waived their sovereign status and entered into such a deal with Florida to begin with. They could have offered sports gambling all along. What was their concern, that another Indian tribe was going to cut in on its slots revenue?
Click to expand...
Their (shortsighted) thinking was that they wanted to lock down table games before the race tracks and non-native casinos could get their hands on them. It paid big short term but now we're seeing what they could potentially lose long term.
 
Poptimus said:
This. The Seminole Indians have a deal with the State that would have to be rewritten to accommodate sports gambling. Apparently, they entered into this awful deal in order to get exclusive rights to slots outside of South Florida and to have approval for table games at all Seminole casinos.

Basically, the Seminoles entered into a retarded deal that is now handcuffing themselves from partaking in sports gambling unless they want Florida to revoke their exclusivity with slots and authority re: table games. The Seminoles gambled and lost, pun intended. Quite frankly, they should have never waived their sovereign status and entered into such a deal with Florida to begin with. They could have offered sports gambling all along. What was their concern, that another Indian tribe was going to cut in on its slots revenue?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insight @Poptimus . I was curious as to how this ruling would affect the tribes - specifically the Seminoles. I recall back in the 70's when they had "smoke" trailers pop up all over the part of Hollywood that was in their reservation. I lived just a couple of blocks from one and cars would be backed up 10 deep all the time to buy "discounted" cigarettes.
 
DTP said:
Their (shortsighted) thinking was that they wanted to lock down table games before the race tracks and non-native casinos could get their hands on them. It paid big short term but now we're seeing what they could potentially lose long term.
Click to expand...
I don't know the ramifications or penalties associated with breaching the contract, but they ought to consider reneging on the deal. They could institute sports gambling immediately and, aside from a monetary penalty, the loss of exclusivity really isn't that bad now that they're established. It'd take a while for a non-established, non-tribe to break into their table games and slots take. Longer than it'd take for the Seminoles to reap sports gambling rewards.
 
Advertisement
Hemsleysalmons said:
States have opportunity to reap the benefits of allowing sports betting. They can charge a fee to any entity that wants to open a betting parlor (as they do throughout Europe). The states can also get a percent of all revenue generated by sports betting. Lastly, the people betting can be taxed on its winnings. This will be a major factor to states allowing sports betting to balance their yearly budgets.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is a state matter, not national as implied in the OP. I'm sure there will be considerable differences from state to state in terms of what is offered, where it is offered, and how it is taxed. It might be like the old days in Europe pre-Euro where you could cross an arbitrary line and get a much different price on an item simply due to the exchange rate in relation to the dollar. Here you might have -110 each way in some states or -120 both sides in other states. Plus there might be a participation fee of some sort, like a tourist tax on hotel rates...something that wouldn't be obvious ahead of time. Locals wouldn't care about that type of thing but sharp bettors will have all the specifics and I'm sure there will be articles on the gambling sites regarding how much effective juice there is in let's say New Jersey as opposed to Oregon or New York.

And no, I wouldn't expect Florida to be aggressive to jump in line on this. Two liberals judges dissented on this ruling but in practice I would expect the more conservative states especially in the South to be most reluctant to dive in.

Frankly I haven't paid much attention to this. Many of us remained in Las Vegas for so long because the sportsbooks made dependable mistakes. You didn't always have to pick winners as much as be aware of when/where the gaffes were likely to happen, and then take full advantage of them. For example, college basketball totals are not evenly split. In a 140 game it's closer to 65.5 first half and 74.5 second half. But every year like clockwork some bonehead sportsbook manager would forget, and hang those first halves at a dead even 50/50 split of the game total. That might last up to a week before they figured it out. The corporate mergers mostly took that type of blunder away, now that there are only 10-12 separate lines in Las Vegas instead of 40-50 like the old days.

I suppose it's possible that with new states getting involved that some type of errors will be made. But they might be 2000 miles away instead of a drive across town.

There's also the aspect of online wagering and how to fund the accounts. Right now the offshore books are heavily restricted in that regard due to the must-pass port security bill of the lame duck senate of late 2006 and Bill Frist from Tennessee. He completely altered the way those offshore sites are allowed to take money and dispense money, at least from customers in the United States. Most of those offshore sites quickly banned customers from the United States, to avoid the hassle with our government.

I assume this new open market would allow online wagering from state run operations. You can't really expect customers to shop for everything online, but not the sports wagers you are now enabling.
 
Tad Footeball said:
Again, I'm not an attorney but this Supreme Court ruling clears the way for individual states to dictate their own rules regarding sports wagering. So seemingly if it's a weak sauce product in one locale then it'll just be based on that individual state's preference- ie like Utah with the alcohol content in beer.

Based on the proliferation of casinos around the country I assume a ton of states are going to rush to open full on sportsbooks.
Click to expand...

Don't forget The Mouse:

Disney bets $10 million (so far) on limiting Florida’s gambling expansion
 
Sebastian_29 said:
I live in NJ. I’ll be heading over to Atlantic City as soon as they open the sportsbooks in a couple weeks.
Click to expand...
I live in Jersey, too, and we're in luck. William Hill is already filing paperwork to open up sports books in NJ. We're looking at having legal sports gambling here in NJ in just two weeks. No Native American bullshyt to impede it from happening.

You Florida guys need to understand that with the Native Americans and the existing agreements in place between tribes and the state of FL, sports gambling isn't likely to happen in FL any time soon. This is a very informative article explaining why, suggesting it's years away.

Florida Won't Legalize Sports Gambling Soon, Even After Supreme Court Ruling
 
Advertisement
Back
Top