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OT: Good read on USC search

hoops156 said:
Lmfao what now? We doing our special math now lol
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So a season where you don’t take over until a few games in cause your coach goes on an unplanned absence for drinking should be held against him? Also, a season in which a global pandemic hits and your conference only plays 6 games, making you ineligible for bowls, should count too? Also, the season you get fired a couple of games in counts as a full season too?

It’s not special math it’s pretty freaking obvious. Either way, his record was a **** of a lot better than Mandy’s and they still didn’t tolerate it.
 
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Big Pimpin Cane said:
His Head coaching record was 46-24, 36-13 in conference. Last year they only played 6 games and he went 5-1, so that doesn’t really count as a season. His “first” year he went 5-4, but he took over for Sark and was the interim, so that doesn’t count either.

In 2016 they went 10-3, 7-2 in conference, and won the Rose Bowl and finished ranked #3 AP.
In 2017 they went 11-3, 8-1 in conference, which included a Cotton Bowl loss, and finished #12 AP.
2018 was his truly bad year, he went 5-7, 4-5 in conference.
2019, his last full season was 8-5, but 7-2 in conference and included a Holiday Bowl Loss, and finished #22 AP.

That’s 4 full season of going 34-18, 26-10 in conference with 3 end of season top-25’s and 1 top 5.

Compare that to Mandy, who is 16-13, 11-7 in conference. Only ranked season- last year #22 AP. If Mandy had made two top-5 bowls and finished the year #3 and #12 (#10 coaches) do you think people would be so ****ed? No.

USC fans were ****ed after two bad years that followed two pretty damned good ones. We have had two pretty crappy ones, maybe you can say last year was “ok” and now are a train wreck.

See the difference???
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Absolutely. And I think Helton was judged unfairly at times, but he was never taking them over the top.
I guess I wasn’t comparing the 2. It was more questioning that USC hasn’t exactly been the gold standard for managing their football program, which it sounds like some, including the national media, are trying to portray.
With talent difference between USC and the rest of the PAC 12, they should have done so much more.

On sort of a side note, it felt like the wanted to get rid of Helton, but he kept going ok enough and they had to keep him. I kind of see a parallel with Dan Mullen at Florida. They want to compete for national championships, and Mullen is a good coach, but he appears to have topped out, but you can’t fire the guy. Is it better to go 10-2 every year, or try and win a natty and possibly bottom out.

None of this changes the fact that Manny should go, and is bad due to his (insert 5 reasons of choice here).

Again just my thoughts coming from a long way away
 
People put too much stock in wins and losses.

There are very good coaches out there that are just going to have a hard time winning 10 games season after season.
 
Big Pimpin Cane said:
See my reply above. Dude had pretty good success. Even if you’re generous and you count his first year as interim as a season, then they really kept him 5 seasons. You can’t count last season of 6 games as a season, nor this season. They had him as Head Coach for 4 real seasons.
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Not sure why there’s so many factors given to lead to 4 seasons.

He was there 70 games.
 
Southern Oz said:
Absolutely. And I think Helton was judged unfairly at times, but he was never taking them over the top.
I guess I wasn’t comparing the 2. It was more questioning that USC hasn’t exactly been the gold standard for managing their football program, which it sounds like some, including the national media, are trying to portray.
With talent difference between USC and the rest of the PAC 12, they should have done so much more.

On sort of a side note, it felt like the wanted to get rid of Helton, but he kept going ok enough and they had to keep him. I kind of see a parallel with Dan Mullen at Florida. They want to compete for national championships, and Mullen is a good coach, but he appears to have topped out, but you can’t fire the guy. Is it better to go 10-2 every year, or try and win a natty and possibly bottom out.

None of this changes the fact that Manny should go, and is bad due to his (insert 5 reasons of choice here).

Again just my thoughts coming from a long way away
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Very fair and reasonable. I think you’re right. At this point I would kill for a coach who could get us to a steady 10-2! After a few years if he can’t get over the hump then bring in someone to close the deal. Problem is we can’t get that level of guy with where we are at right now.
 
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Go Canes!! said:
Not sure why there’s so many factors given to lead to 4 seasons.

He was there 70 games.
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70 divided by 13 is 5.38 He was an interim coach for one of those games in 2013. How can last season count? He finished 5-1, 5-0 in conference, but was ineligible for bowls. If he had been eligible, with a prorated record of 10-2, he would have been close to the CFP.

I don’t see how you want to count 7 season when one was half a season as interim coach, one was a 6 games season, and one he got fired after 2 games. How? If Manny got fired today would this year count as a full season?
 
Big Pimpin Cane said:
70 divided by 13 is 5.38 He was an interim coach for one of those games in 2013. How can last season count? He finished 5-1, 5-0 in conference, but was ineligible for bowls. If he had been eligible, with a prorated record of 10-2, he would have been close to the CFP.

I don’t see how you want to count 7 season when one was half a season as interim coach, one was a 6 games season, and one he got fired after 2 games. How? If Manny got fired today would this year count as a full season?
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Lmao Oregon was told there was no bowl games? Pretty sure they played Iowa state lol. He lost to a 4-3 Oregon team in the pac title game. They weren’t ineligible. USc on their own decided not to play. The pac 12 did play in bowl games lol
 
hoops156 said:
Lmao Oregon was told there was no bowl games? Pretty sure they played Iowa state lol
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Ok. I thought I remembered that they weren’t bowl eligible cause if not enough games but apparently they opted out because they weren’t sure they would have 53 due to Covid and cause they didn’t want to play in anything but a New Year’s 6 game.

They got screwed being in the PAC12 as compared to all the conferences that played a full schedule. 6 games does not a season make.
 
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Big Pimpin Cane said:
Ok. I thought I remembered that they weren’t bowl eligible cause if not enough games but apparently they opted out because they weren’t sure they would have 53 due to Covid and cause they didn’t want to play in anything but a New Year’s 6 game.

They got screwed being in the PAC12 as compared to all the conferences that played a full schedule. 6 games does not a season make.
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maybe They shouldve beaten a then 2 loss Oregon team w a conf on the line.
 
hoops156 said:
maybe They shouldve beaten a then 2 loss Oregon team w a conf on the line.
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Maybe. But that’s why he got fired. The point is that they fired him despite a **** load more succes than Manny has even come close to. He had as many conference losses,13, in “7” season as Manny has had in “3”, 11. I had to be sure to count right since you guys count even a 2 game schedule as a season.
 
Big Pimpin Cane said:
Maybe. But that’s why he got fired. The point is that they fired him despite a **** load more succes than Manny has even come close to. He had as many conference losses,13, in “7” season as Manny has had in “3”, 11. I had to be sure to count right since you guys count even a 2 game schedule as a season.
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You know if you subtract the gsmes jarren played in under manny, he really only was here like 1 season esp since covid season doesn’t count since we lost a few weeks and coaches
 
hoops156 said:
You know if you subtract the gsmes jarren played in under manny, he really only was here like 1 season esp since covid season doesn’t count since we lost a few weeks and coaches
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Ha. Thats fine. You do the math however you want. Count each game as a season! I couldn’t care less.

If you think USC cares less than we do then you really need some math help.
 
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Give me a HC that knows Xs n Os and a beast recruiter. Let him hire a legit 4-3 DC and let’s run this again. The question is who would be a nice candidate DC?
 
Big Pimpin Cane said:
His Head coaching record was 46-24, 36-13 in conference. Last year they only played 6 games and he went 5-1, so that doesn’t really count as a season. His “first” year he went 5-4, but he took over for Sark and was the interim, so that doesn’t count either.

In 2016 they went 10-3, 7-2 in conference, and won the Rose Bowl and finished ranked #3 AP.
In 2017 they went 11-3, 8-1 in conference, which included a Cotton Bowl loss, and finished #12 AP.
2018 was his truly bad year, he went 5-7, 4-5 in conference.
2019, his last full season was 8-5, but 7-2 in conference and included a Holiday Bowl Loss, and finished #22 AP.

That’s 4 full season of going 34-18, 26-10 in conference with 3 end of season top-25’s and 1 top 5.

Compare that to Mandy, who is 16-13, 11-7 in conference. Only ranked season- last year #22 AP. If Mandy had made two top-5 bowls and finished the year #3 and #12 (#10 coaches) do you think people would be so ****ed? No.

USC fans were ****ed after two bad years that followed two pretty damned good ones. We have had two pretty crappy ones, maybe you can say last year was “ok” and now are a train wreck.

See the difference???
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Man, I spelled this same chit out when they tried to compare SC to Miami. Helton, by all accounts was the most successful out the last 3 of the bunch (Sark, Kiffin, & Helton)…and yet, SC still fired him b/c it wasn’t good enough. We would be absolutely RAVING if any of past corches remotely did what Clay did. Lol.
 
Big Pimpin Cane said:
70 divided by 13 is 5.38 He was an interim coach for one of those games in 2013. How can last season count? He finished 5-1, 5-0 in conference, but was ineligible for bowls. If he had been eligible, with a prorated record of 10-2, he would have been close to the CFP.

I don’t see how you want to count 7 season when one was half a season as interim coach, one was a 6 games season, and one he got fired after 2 games. How? If Manny got fired today would this year count as a full season?
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U’re correct on everything except the bowl situation. USC (Helton) chose not to play. Simply b/c dude was already on the hot seat & he was saving his ***.
 
Big Pimpin Cane said:
Wait, are you talking about the private school with a strong football tradition that’s in a large city that actually gives a crap about its football team? The one that fired their train wreck coach BEFORE it was too late and it killed? Must be nice.
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Is that the same one that waited to fire a known trainwreck for seven years?
 
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