forums

Off-Topic OT: FSU Active Shooter

Status
Not open for further replies.
RF-4CCane said:
Someone who wants to commit suicide, will do so whether they have a handgun or not.
Of the top 11 countries in suicide per capita, the USA is 5th.
Of the other 10 countries in the top 11, all have extremely restrictive handgun possession laws and several have outright bans on civilian handgun ownership including the UK, Australia, Ireland, Japan, South Korea which in #1 in suicide rate and Germany.
Click to expand...
RF-4CCane said:
See graph. There is obviously zero correlation between suicide rates and handgun ownership.
Click to expand...

That's not the right way to look at it. Comparing the per capita suicide rate of the U.S to other countries, doesn't help us to understand whether there's a correlation between gun ownership & suicide rates because every state in the U.S doesn't have uniform gun laws. To understand, we have to limit our analysis to within the U.S; we have to compare states that have high gun ownership rates & less gun provisions vs. states with low gun ownership rates & more gun provisions.

firearm-law-provisions-and-age-adjusted-suicide-rates-by-state.png


firearm-suicide-rate-in-2020-by-firearm-law-provisions (1).png


Suicide-Prevention-Blog-Chart-092123A-1024x576.png



The significance of this data is twofold: first, it shows that firearm suicide rates increase with
greater accessibility to firearms, & 2nd it shows that non-firearm suicide rates remained relatively constant, even in states where firearms were harder to access. This is counter to the perception that if one means of suicide is unavailable, a suicidal individual will find an alternative means. This is a misguided perspective because most suicidal crisis are short lived, & 90% of people who survive suicide attempts don't go on to die by suicide, & 70% never make another attempt. This is why it's extremely important to keep individuals who are in psychological distress away from firearms, because even though they are used in only 5% of suicide attempts, they end up accounting for more than half of all suicides due to how lethal they are; 90% of suicides attempted by firearms end up being fatal vs. only 4% using other means.

Ultimately, the correlation between gun ownership & suicide, is not that gun ownership makes u more suicidal, but that suicide attempts using firearms end up being more fatal than other means.

Since 2010, almost 350k people have lost their lives because of firearm suicides. This is a tremendous loss of human capital, & potential for this country, that easily could've been avoided.
 
Advertisement
Firearms account for 55% of suicides in the US. Suicides overall have been increasing and the suicide rates don't fit the pattern of gun ownership. The two are not connected.

1745231754876.png



1745231778736.png


1745231840148.png
 
Trafficante said:
That's not the right way to look at it. Comparing the per capita suicide rate of the U.S to other countries, doesn't help us to understand whether there's a correlation between gun ownership & suicide rates because every state in the U.S doesn't have uniform gun laws. To understand, we have to limit our analysis to within the U.S; we have to compare states that have high gun ownership rates & less gun provisions vs. states with low gun ownership rates & more gun provisions.

View attachment 323517

View attachment 323518

View attachment 323522


The significance of this data is twofold: first, it shows that firearm suicide rates increase with
greater accessibility to firearms, & 2nd it shows that non-firearm suicide rates remained relatively constant, even in states where firearms were harder to access. This is counter to the perception that if one means of suicide is unavailable, a suicidal individual will find an alternative means. This is a misguided perspective because most suicidal crisis are short lived, & 90% of people who survive suicide attempts don't go on to die by suicide, & 70% never make another attempt. This is why it's extremely important to keep individuals who are in psychological distress away from firearms, because even though they are used in only 5% of suicide attempts, they end up accounting for more than half of all suicides due to how lethal they are; 90% of suicides attempted by firearms end up being fatal vs. only 4% using other means.

Ultimately, the correlation between gun ownership & suicide, is not that gun ownership makes u more suicidal, but that suicide attempts using firearms end up being more fatal than other means.

Since 2010, almost 350k people have lost their lives because of firearm suicides. This is a tremendous loss of human capital, & potential for this country, that easily could've been avoided.
Click to expand...
On one hand you’re telling us that we cannot point out high gun violence in cities like Chicago, Washington D.C., Los Angeles, Baltimore despite having restrictive hand gun laws, because they allegedly have unfettered access to guns from neighboring less restrictive states.
Then on the other hand tell us that USA hand gun suicides rates are skewed because some states have restrictive gun laws. That’s circular logic.
Then you dismiss that most of the leading suicide rates countries have complete bans or near bans on handguns
If people in Japan, South Korea, Australia, Great Britain can lead the world in suicides, despite near zero access to handguns, that is far more relevant. Obviously lack of access to handguns does not stop the people in these countries from killing themselves, if they have the will, mental illness and cowardice to do it.
I can tell you one thing, I have many handguns and yet if I was a depressed and a selfish individual who didn’t care about the impact on my family and felt I had no option but to commit suicide, it would never be by handgun. I’d want to just go to sleep and not wake up, I.E., the pill and alcohol route.
 
RF-4CCane said:
On one hand you’re telling us that we cannot point out high gun violence in cities like Chicago, Washington D.C., Los Angeles, Baltimore despite having restrictive hand gun laws, because they allegedly have unfettered access to guns from neighboring less restrictive states.
Then on the other hand tell us that USA hand gun suicides rates are skewed because some states have restrictive gun laws. That’s circular logic.
Click to expand...

It's not circular logic. You're creating a false equivalence between firearm suicides & homicides, by thinking that ALL firearm provisions are effective at reducing both equally; they are not.


RF-4CCane said:
Then you dismiss that most of the leading suicide rates countries have complete bans or near bans on handguns
If people in Japan, South Korea, Australia, Great Britain can lead the world in suicides, despite near zero access to handguns, that is far more relevant. Obviously lack of access to handguns does not stop the people in these countries from killing themselves, if they have the will, mental illness and cowardice to do it.
Click to expand...

All that proves is that firearm access doesn't make an individual more suicidal; which I already stated in my last post. It doesn't disprove the fact that greater firearm access leads to higher suicide rates overall because firearms are the most lethal method of attempting it. The citizens of the countries that u mentioned, might be more suicidal than U.S citizens, & that is why they have higher per capita suicide rates. The lack of firearm access means that they will have to resort to attempting suicide utilizing less lethal methods, more frequently.
 
Trafficante said:
All that proves is that firearm access doesn't make an individual more suicidal; which I already stated in my last post. It doesn't disprove the fact that greater firearm access leads to higher suicide rates overall because firearms are the most lethal method of attempting it. The citizens of the countries that u mentioned, might be more suicidal than U.S citizens, & that is why they have higher per capita suicide rates. The lack of firearm access means that they will have to resort to attempting suicide utilizing less lethal methods, more frequently.
Click to expand...
Lmfao
I don’t deal with crazy. Have a nice day.
 
Advertisement
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top