Notre Dame On-Field Breakdown Thread

[OrangeBowlMagic]

I think some of you are underestimating what a relatively slow TE who just plods over to about 10 yards and sits down can do to us right now in the intermediate game. Maybe it’ll look different in the subsequent ND games I watch, but so far these dudes live in the short to intermediate with some safe passing and screens to the outside.


Can we twist things up and throw Fitzgerald into some Robber Coverages?

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Hunt their intermediate game. If they beat us deep vertically, I’d prefer to play those odds.

(Of course, none of this means I like bailing into the ether and giving #6 and #14 free money throws at the sticks)

Have we been beaten vertically once all season by anyone not named Duce Robinson? I can't think of a single play all year except for the FSU game and garbage time against Pitt where a ball with 20+ air yards was completed. It's all underneath and YAC. The more I think about it, the UNC game wasn't *that* much different than any other game, except we couldn't get a stop in the red zone. We've given up passing yards all year to anyone with a pulse, but when we get inside the 20 and literally can't just play deep cloud coverage because our DBs would be in the 4th row, we've been able to tighten up and get stops. UNC went 5 for 5 in TDs last week. National average on TD% in the redzone is about 60%. If they go 3/5 instead of 5/5, we win the game 38-27 and everyone is a lot happier.

Granted, this isn't any excuse. Stop allowing every QB you play to complete 70% of their passes for 10 yards a throw. Just saying, we haven't given up really big plays at all this year. We're 7th in the country in 30+ yard plays allowed, and we can't cover anyone. That doesn't make sense. We should be way worse. But it's because nobody even tries to beat us deep. Just run into a soft spot, catch a ball with nobody near you, break a tackle, and pick up 16 yards. Or catch a screen for 22. Or leak out of the backfield and catch an angle route for 11. No need to even attempt low percentage downfield throws when we're just throwing a welcome party to pick us apart underneath.

 

[Colombie]

Where did you get that from? UNC's RBs had a combined 69 yards on 21 carries, a 3.3 yard average. They had one run of 10+, which was for 12 and there second longest run was 7 yards. They literally could not run on us.

They also attempted 5 runs by there RBs on 1st down for a total of 13 yards. They went for 3,7,1,1,1. So 4 out of 5 times they ran on 1st, they were behind the sticks.

By comparison, they threw the ball 17 times on 1st down and gained 154 yards. The gameplan was pretty obvious.

So yeah, when folks are saying focus more on passing vs running against us, there is zero surprise why they state that.

Short yardage.

They did not pass on every play.

 

[Brains]

In the spirit of what I did for last year's playoff games, this week I'll watch every single ND snap so far this season. I'll continuously add to this thread and would love others to do the same.

As usual, I don't really get into feelings and random projections based on intangible things (the atmosphere, the energy, the leadership of our/their staff, blah blah). I try to watch plays and base opinions on plays I've seen or project. I like talking about plays and learning from others. Particularly can use a lot of help on OL/DL. Other than as many "FARK ND" statements as we wish to share, let's try to keep this thread to play analysis.

Just from what I've already casually watched without note taking, here are some initial thoughts I may or may not take back after I watch them like a lunatic whose family is being held hostage:

- I don't like how the game sets up for us right now, but if I felt better about our defensive preparation, I'd think we could go in there and win by double digits because their defense has some vulnerabilities at the moment, and I believe Mensah wears a wizard hat when we're prepared offensively

- ND's dink and dunk approach (or so it seemed on casual watches) is actually a bad matchup for our Back 7 chaos/confusion and poor tackling. So, sure, if those things randomly change this week, that helps, but if we stick to pattern, especially what we saw come together for UNC, I hate it for us.

- Their DT situation, depending on Brewu, is an immediate concern for me. They have 4 functional DTs and a couple who can plant directly over RR's nose and dictate some things. That guy is a transfer from Oregon, #0 (I think last name Gray). But, the guy who I think we should keep an eye out given our particular tendencies and weaknesses is their #88. Especially if Brewu is out. He makes splash plays in small spurts and ND likes to move around quite a bit. The 4th, Onye, went out against Navy, but I have no idea if he'll be back for them or not. Together, I think they present more problems than we've seen.

- Their #5, primary EDGE who stands out, Traore, I suspect will give us problems to address. If I were them, I'd move him around and give him looks against Mccoy. I think we handled Clemson's EDGE well, but we'll see about this guy.

- Their DBackfield has injuries. Theyre down a high level Safety. They're down their #2 Corner (Mckinney). I don't know if Moore played against Navy. With a conservative view, I'll guess he plays against us, but may be banged up? Not sure. They are definitely an injury away from some trouble in the secondary.

- No need to go too deeply on Leonard Moore. He's an elite prospect. If he is healthy, I suspect he'll shadow Mali *when Mali lines up outside.* So, those formations we've used where we isolate Mali in order to manipulate a Safety over his top and get numbers on the other side of the field? I'm very curious if ND gives Moore the chance to lock him up in isolation. I'd still give Mali a shot, especially with in-breaking stuff, or I'd happily take numbers on the other side.

- Christian Gray #29 for them is back. In what I've watched, he doesn't look as vulnerable as he did last year, but I'll watch closer for notes. He's their primary Nickel and was extremely grabby when I watched him last year. Even as a 17 year old, Mali gave him problems. I want to see more whip route opportunities for Toney. Bring them back this game.

- ND is down potentially one or two top LBs. Bowen, their defensive playcaller, as far as I know, went down against Navy. I'd be surprised if he's back. The other dude, Viliamu-Asa, I think was rested against Navy to nurse a hand/thumb injury. I think he'll play against us, and he's talented.

I'll get more in on their offense as I watch plays. Again, here to learn. Not to argue and get into nonsense. LFG.

The bold is my big concern.

 

[skyman]

Have we been beaten vertically once all season by anyone not named Duce Robinson? I can't think of a single play all year except for the FSU game and garbage time against Pitt where a ball with 20+ air yards was completed. It's all underneath and YAC. The more I think about it, the UNC game wasn't *that* much different than any other game, except we couldn't get a stop in the red zone. We've given up passing yards all year to anyone with a pulse, but when we get inside the 20 and literally can't just play deep cloud coverage because our DBs would be in the 4th row, we've been able to tighten up and get stops. UNC went 5 for 5 in TDs last week. National average on TD% in the redzone is about 60%. If they go 3/5 instead of 5/5, we win the game 38-27 and everyone is a lot happier.

Granted, this isn't any excuse. Stop allowing every QB you play to complete 70% of their passes for 10 yards a throw. Just saying, we haven't given up really big plays at all this year. We're 7th in the country in 30+ yard plays allowed, and we can't cover anyone. That doesn't make sense. We should be way worse. But it's because nobody even tries to beat us deep. Just run into a soft spot, catch a ball with nobody near you, break a tackle, and pick up 16 yards. Or catch a screen for 22. Or leak out of the backfield and catch an angle route for 11. No need to even attempt low percentage downfield throws when we're just throwing a welcome party to pick us apart underneath.

Thats what makes the RB/TE screens going for 20 + yards in that game UNTOUCHED dam near a problem, because they were able to manufacture explosive plays against a defense that is built not to give it up and built on rally, swarm and punish underneath.. If our foundational rally cry of being physical is eliminated the defense basically breaks..

Thats what made UNC eyeopening, the tackling being THAT bad when whole scheme is supposed to be keep everything underneath and swarm and punish with tackling. When you start having wefense on tape.. The people who dont say anything about the country cover 3 and give up everything underneath start to say something when every tackle is broken and normal RB/TE screen plays go for 20+ yard explosives with ease as every defender is running but not really trying to punish runner because of bum shoulders.

 

[STG]

Short yardage.

They did not pass on every play.

They weren't effective, period. And it's definitely not what you said to begin with. But regardless, they were completely ineffective.

And they passed the ball 62% of the time. Again, gameplan was obvious and it's what works against us.

 

[section9]

OMG, the return of Wefense. I never thought I'd see that in the Cristobal era.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Thats what makes the RB/TE screens going for 20 + yards in that game UNTOUCHED dam near a problem, because they were able to manufacture explosive plays against a defense that is built not to give it up and built on rally, swarm and punish underneath.. If our foundational rally cry of being physical is eliminated the defense basically breaks..

Thats what made UNC eyeopening, the tackling being THAT bad when whole scheme is supposed to be keep everything underneath and swarm and punish with tackling. When you start having wefense on tape.. The people who dont say anything about the country cover 3 and give up everything underneath start to say something when every tackle is broken and normal RB/TE screen plays go for 20+ yard explosives with ease as every defender is running but not really trying to punish runner because of bum shoulders.

My guy, it's ALL a problem *laughs to prevent crying*

 

[Colombie]

They weren't effective, period. And it's definitely not what you said to begin with. But regardless, they were completely ineffective.

And they passed the ball 62% of the time. Again, gameplan was obvious and it's what works against us.

They had short yardage plays that they were able to pick up by running or they were able to keep out of 4rd and longs due to not passing every down. That was my main point.

 

[NicKane]

Where are UNC’s difference makers at WR?

Right now, nobody throwing the football is to our benefit. Every game stands on its own 2 feet. When the ball is kicked in South Bend on Saturday, ND doesn’t get any yards or points from UNC. It’s a clean slate. So we can improve. But the last 5 games against FBS teams, we’re getting wrecked by passing attacks.

If I’m being honest, I think UNC’s tight end and receiver named ship, is better than anything Notre Dame is thrown out there at the skill positions this year. Do you not agree with that? I think their quarterback carr has carried that team this year.

 

[LuCane]

Have we been beaten vertically once all season by anyone not named Duce Robinson? I can't think of a single play all year except for the FSU game and garbage time against Pitt where a ball with 20+ air yards was completed. It's all underneath and YAC. The more I think about it, the UNC game wasn't *that* much different than any other game, except we couldn't get a stop in the red zone. We've given up passing yards all year to anyone with a pulse, but when we get inside the 20 and literally can't just play deep cloud coverage because our DBs would be in the 4th row, we've been able to tighten up and get stops. UNC went 5 for 5 in TDs last week. National average on TD% in the redzone is about 60%. If they go 3/5 instead of 5/5, we win the game 38-27 and everyone is a lot happier.

Granted, this isn't any excuse. Stop allowing every QB you play to complete 70% of their passes for 10 yards a throw. Just saying, we haven't given up really big plays at all this year. We're 7th in the country in 30+ yard plays allowed, and we can't cover anyone. That doesn't make sense. We should be way worse. But it's because nobody even tries to beat us deep. Just run into a soft spot, catch a ball with nobody near you, break a tackle, and pick up 16 yards. Or catch a screen for 22. Or leak out of the backfield and catch an angle route for 11. No need to even attempt low percentage downfield throws when we're just throwing a welcome party to pick us apart underneath.

I wish I could explain to you how opposed I am to the approach you described in your last paragraph. It makes me ill. It’s such bad Math. Free access throws, simple sit downs for 7-8 yards on 1st down, etc. That is exactly the opposite of how I’d prefer to play. Sure, some teams drop passes, make errant throws, or self-destruct. But, many don’t.

 

[NicKane]

While I do agree with you I’d still take unc pass catchers over nd’s

100%! UNC’s receiver Ship and their tight end are better skill players than anything Notre Dame has put on the field this year.. I think that’s the best tight end we will play all year

 

[LuCane]

focusing a lot of my rewatch attention on ND’s offense, but even after the obvious double move play by Wiscy, watching their backup corner, Sanders (who will replace McKinney), gives me some hope for double moves and verticals. He likes to gamble and play aggressively.

 

[TomAce]

I wish I could explain to you how opposed I am to the approach you described in your last paragraph. It makes me ill. It’s such bad Math. Free access throws, simple sit downs for 7-8 yards on 1st down, etc. That is exactly the opposite of how I’d prefer to play. Sure, some teams drop passes, make errant throws, or self-destruct. But, many don’t.

Lu....a lot of the weaknesses seem to be the same that you posted about during last year's playoff run, many of the things you said team could exploit are actually doing it now...what is your opinion as to why? Missing the completely dominate DL? Missing Scott? Is it that a team finally did it and now it's on tape?

 

[mirvin88]

If I’m being honest, I think UNC’s tight end and receiver named ship, is better than anything Notre Dame is thrown out there at the skill positions this year. Do you not agree with that? I think their quarterback carr has carried that team this year.

Jelani is definitely a better TE than any ND has.

 

[skyman]

100%! UNC’s receiver Ship and their tight end are better skill players than anything Notre Dame has put on the field this year.. I think that’s the best tight end we will play all year

Some other TE coming up, not better but can be issue.. Duke Hasley and especially VT Reynolds rubs hands like birdman

 

[Ric Flair Blitz]

Have we been beaten vertically once all season by anyone not named Duce Robinson? I can't think of a single play all year except for the FSU game and garbage time against Pitt where a ball with 20+ air yards was completed. It's all underneath and YAC. The more I think about it, the UNC game wasn't *that* much different than any other game, except we couldn't get a stop in the red zone. We've given up passing yards all year to anyone with a pulse, but when we get inside the 20 and literally can't just play deep cloud coverage because our DBs would be in the 4th row, we've been able to tighten up and get stops. UNC went 5 for 5 in TDs last week. National average on TD% in the redzone is about 60%. If they go 3/5 instead of 5/5, we win the game 38-27 and everyone is a lot happier.

Granted, this isn't any excuse. Stop allowing every QB you play to complete 70% of their passes for 10 yards a throw. Just saying, we haven't given up really big plays at all this year. We're 7th in the country in 30+ yard plays allowed, and we can't cover anyone. That doesn't make sense. We should be way worse. But it's because nobody even tries to beat us deep. Just run into a soft spot, catch a ball with nobody near you, break a tackle, and pick up 16 yards. Or catch a screen for 22. Or leak out of the backfield and catch an angle route for 11. No need to even attempt low percentage downfield throws when we're just throwing a welcome party to pick us apart underneath.

And to be fair, we almost did win 38-28 if Ryan Mack had a pulse on that last drive.

Even with ALL of that considered, we played our worst game, and came out with a win. I love the 3/5 stat - it was so uncharacteristic of us to give up so many red zone scores. Jelani really hurt us in the RZ and it looked like guys were not locked in. Whether that was looking ahead to ND, sleepwalking because they were out late the night before, or any other littany of issues, I think we will be OK. We aren't an elite passing D, but we also aren't as bad as what we showed on Saturday night.

Going back to FSU, TWO of those TD drives were really due to penalty (phantom facemask and 30 yards of personal fouls on kick offs). If those two things don't happen, we also win that game handedly.

Again, not excuses, but you know what, we WON BOTH OF THOSE GAMES. Where in year's past, we'd be there at 6-2 and praying for help during our last four games. Let's take the victories we have earned, learn from the mistakes we have made, and continue refining. Our best is ahead of us.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

I wish I could explain to you how opposed I am to the approach you described in your last paragraph. It makes me ill. It’s such bad Math. Free access throws, simple sit downs for 7-8 yards on 1st down, etc. That is exactly the opposite of how I’d prefer to play. Sure, some teams drop passes, make errant throws, or self-destruct. But, many don’t.

Couldn't agree more. It's really frustrating to watch.

 

[MiamisMoperiestMopes]

More snaps into their season. Latest thing to stand out:

These ******** are going to target their RBs at least 6-8 times in our game.

I’ve watched them motion their RB into the flats as a setup. We’re getting hit with it.

Pretty subtle approach with their Hback and RBs in short motions to give Carr a clear picture.

Our disguises better be completely new.

Halloween is over, no need to try to scare me more.

Have we been beaten vertically once all season by anyone not named Duce Robinson? I can't think of a single play all year except for the FSU game and garbage time against Pitt where a ball with 20+ air yards was completed. It's all underneath and YAC. The more I think about it, the UNC game wasn't *that* much different than any other game, except we couldn't get a stop in the red zone. We've given up passing yards all year to anyone with a pulse, but when we get inside the 20 and literally can't just play deep cloud coverage because our DBs would be in the 4th row, we've been able to tighten up and get stops. UNC went 5 for 5 in TDs last week. National average on TD% in the redzone is about 60%. If they go 3/5 instead of 5/5, we win the game 38-27 and everyone is a lot happier.

Granted, this isn't any excuse. Stop allowing every QB you play to complete 70% of their passes for 10 yards a throw. Just saying, we haven't given up really big plays at all this year. We're 7th in the country in 30+ yard plays allowed, and we can't cover anyone. That doesn't make sense. We should be way worse. But it's because nobody even tries to beat us deep. Just run into a soft spot, catch a ball with nobody near you, break a tackle, and pick up 16 yards. Or catch a screen for 22. Or leak out of the backfield and catch an angle route for 11. No need to even attempt low percentage downfield throws when we're just throwing a welcome party to pick us apart underneath.

AI analysis disclaimer

 

[LuCane]

Lu....a lot of the weaknesses seem to be the same that you posted about during last year's playoff run, many of the things you said team could exploit are actually doing it now...what is your opinion as to why? Missing the completely dominate DL? Missing Scott? Is it that a team finally did it and now it's on tape?

I think Ole Miss actually did a good bit of it. I grew up playing Cover 3 and its variations. Legitimately from about 13 years old or just before, that is what I was taught in middle school football.

I know why Hetherman loves it so much and why teams like Indiana also call it so much, but it plainly has clearly defined holes. Anyone who’s played in it or against it can name them.

There are flood, smash, and other combination routes that catch units that even do a good job at pattern matching or communicating on simple principles. So, when I’ve watched us be *predictable* with it, I’ve just felt that bill comes due at some point. This season, we’re so intent on stopping the run that it seems every player is inching forward or stretching gaps in the zone beyond what makes sense.

I thought TAMU would do a much better job in last year’s playoff, but that was a weird game in a windstorm and their QB Reed is apparently permanently drunk on snow bunnies. I’ll take the result. I thought OSU choked and we beat them up. I wasn’t a believer in Indiana, but Becker and a couple designed plays got us. Not to mention that blocked punt changing the possession dynamic.

So yeah, I think this is just an overdue bill.

I think the number one thing you cannot do in high level football (which I never was good enough to play) is give QBs clear windows and easy decisions. When you don’t change the pre/post snap picture well or react aggressively, that idea that other teams eventually self-destruct becomes a fraud. Especially if you don’t have outrageous playmakers like Scott and the two first round DEs who’d disrupt plays almost from the snap.

I hope something gives. I rather live with getting bombed on Duce Robinson style than give 7-8 yard throws on 1st down. That’s a personal preference.

 

[Hstokes1447]