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Not breaking news, but…

Return of the U said:
I'm not posting to blindly defend Mario either.

Is losing to a few bad teams here or there worse than never beating any good teams?

Mario has 3 wins over 10 win P5 in less seasons.

Lane has one in more seasons.

Doesn't Mario have the higher ceiling to date?
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Mario's been a head coach for a total of 11 years and has 2 10 win seasons and won't make it this season.
Lane's also been a head coach for 11 years and has 4 10 win seasons and will likely add another by December.
 
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Return of the U said:
Mario.

It's close but Mario has a higher ceiling IMO.
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Face Palm GIF
 
TrumpyCane said:
TrumpyCane wants to know what does it say about Kiffin that hes at said trash program and there have been multiple jobs open at other P5 programs?

This isn't TrumpyCane crapping on Kiffin, he was actually TrumpyCane's choice (you can go back to when Manny was being fired to see posts) but TrumpyCane simmered down on him after that horrible finish last year and then seeing the stat on him being 1-19 or w/e it is against teams that finished with 9 wins

We don't have to prop up other mediocre coaches to **** on Mario
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It says contrary to the anti-kiffin crew that he would jump after only a few years here he is selective and doesn’t just jump around. He could have had the Auburn job.
 
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TVD blows. He is the problem. Dawson can't run what he wants with him at QB because he's a 1 read bum. Mario probably said since our QB who ******* sucks can't do anything lets simplify it. Can't blame Mario for that. I'd do the exact same thing. Again this is on TVD & I can't wait to never see him again. Just sad our fanbase defended him for so long.
 
JgDaCane said:
TVD blows. He is the problem. Dawson can't run what he wants with him at QB because he's a 1 read bum. Mario probably said since our QB who ******* sucks can't do anything lets simplify it. Can't blame Mario for that. I'd do the exact same thing. Again this is on TVD & I can't wait to never see him again. Just sad our fanbase defended him for so long.
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My thoughts exactly. Especially when that is exactly how we beat Clemson. There was a model put out there to follow. DVD just isn't following it. Margin for error is super slim. Turnovers kill that model. Especially when the TO takes points off the board.
 
All right….I’ve read 30 pages and I can’t take it anymore. Multiple things can be true at once and this board’s inability to understand nuance never ceases to amaze me. Here are my thoughts:

1) Mario has 100% injected his philosophy into this offense. To what degree, I’m not sure. I’m certain he’s heavily involved in the planning process, but I doubt he’s micromanaging Dawson as much as some of you claim.

2) Dawson has done a **** poor job of coaching up TVD. We got a D1 quarterback with NFL hype who doesn’t understand how to beat different zone defenses. He’s making mistakes a high school QB doesn’t make. As the QB coach, wtf has he done to help TVD improve since the GT game?

3) TVD is injured. And ya, he’s missing throws he used to make because of it. But the mental side of his game taking a giant **** is more startling. Emory may not have the arm of TVD, but I’m more concerned about whether or not he’s cerebral enough to be a game manager for the duration of the season.

4) We probably can’t run some of things you guys want anymore because we have zero confidence in our QB, which is sad. But, more importantly, teams are matching up against us differently than A&M did and we simply don’t have an answer.

5) I don’t care what side of the coin you fall on, but you should want to beat FSU’s *** on Saturday. If you don’t, **** you!
 
edge said:
My thoughts exactly. Especially when that is exactly how we beat Clemson. There was a model put out there to follow. DVD just isn't following it. Margin for error is super slim. Turnovers kill that model. Especially when the TO takes points off the board.
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Well you're a smart man bc anyone with a brain in their head see's thats's exactly what happened bc it is. Problem is our fanbase is the dumbest in America.
 
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Genghis Cane said:
All right….I’ve read 30 pages and I can’t take it anymore. Multiple things can be true at once and this board’s inability to understand nuance never ceases to amaze me. Here are my thoughts:

1) Mario has 100% injected his philosophy into this offense. To what degree, I’m not sure. I’m certain he’s heavily involved in the planning process, but I doubt he’s micromanaging Dawson as much as some of you claim.

2) Dawson has done a **** poor job of coaching up TVD. We got a D1 quarterback with NFL hype who doesn’t understand how to beat different zone defenses. He’s making mistakes a high school QB doesn’t make. As the QB coach, wtf has he done to help TVD improve since the GT game?

3) TVD is injured. And ya, he’s missing throws he used to make because of it. But the mental side of his game taking a giant **** is more startling. Emory may not have the arm of TVD, but I’m more concerned about whether or not he’s cerebral enough to be a game manager for the duration of the season.

4) We probably can’t run some of things you guys want anymore because we have zero confidence in our QB, which is sad. But, more importantly, teams are matching up against us differently than A&M did and we simply don’t have an answer.

5) I don’t care what side of the coin you fall on, but you should want to beat FSU’s *** on Saturday. If you don’t, **** you!
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No. It’s all Mario’s fault.
 
JgDaCane said:
TVD blows. He is the problem. Dawson can't run what he wants with him at QB because he's a 1 read bum. Mario probably said since our QB who ******* sucks can't do anything lets simplify it. Can't blame Mario for that. I'd do the exact same thing. Again this is on TVD & I can't wait to never see him again. Just sad our fanbase defended him for so long.
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Genghis Cane said:
All right….I’ve read 30 pages and I can’t take it anymore. Multiple things can be true at once and this board’s inability to understand nuance never ceases to amaze me. Here are my thoughts:

1) Mario has 100% injected his philosophy into this offense. To what degree, I’m not sure. I’m certain he’s heavily involved in the planning process, but I doubt he’s micromanaging Dawson as much as some of you claim.

2) Dawson has done a **** poor job of coaching up TVD. We got a D1 quarterback with NFL hype who doesn’t understand how to beat different zone defenses. He’s making mistakes a high school QB doesn’t make. As the QB coach, wtf has he done to help TVD improve since the GT game?

3) TVD is injured. And ya, he’s missing throws he used to make because of it. But the mental side of his game taking a giant **** is more startling. Emory may not have the arm of TVD, but I’m more concerned about whether or not he’s cerebral enough to be a game manager for the duration of the season.

4) We probably can’t run some of things you guys want anymore because we have zero confidence in our QB, which is sad. But, more importantly, teams are matching up against us differently than A&M did and we simply don’t have an answer.

5) I don’t care what side of the coin you fall on, but you should want to beat FSU’s *** on Saturday. If you don’t, **** you!
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Between Mario and Dawson they need to come up with a better plan to make the offense productive, even in spite of TVD sucking donkey ****
 
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423Hurricane said:
Quite frankly, I’m surprised this thread has been allowed to remain active. We’ve seen many times in the past when a thread with content that could be construed as detrimental or derogatory to the school or the football program in general get nuked pronto.

As with any “inside” source, the content should be taken with a grain of salt. The vast majority of these inside takes are at best 2nd hand knowledge and in this case, admittedly with bias.
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Keep the focus on Lane vs Mario and not on how bad TVD and the offense is playing is 4D Chess
 
I'm gunna need an actual definition of 'bro style' with some actual numbers that can be used to judge whether an offense is 'bro style fizical' or not according to all y'all.

What is it, pass/run ratio? % plays out of 11 personnel or 10/20 personnel vs 12? How often we have a TE in-line? Time of possession/tempo? Pass attempts > 10yards down field? Like what exactly are you saying makes this offense 'bro style' and therefore bad vs any other offense in America? Or is it purely a feel thing which means primarily dependant on W/L?

Ideally we can get a definition before the FSU game that we can use to judge whether this offense is indeed 'bro style' or not. And then we can maybe see how other top offenses stack up in those metrics for that definition and see where they lay on that spectrum.
 
Genghis Cane said:
All right….I’ve read 30 pages and I can’t take it anymore. Multiple things can be true at once and this board’s inability to understand nuance never ceases to amaze me. Here are my thoughts:

1) Mario has 100% injected his philosophy into this offense. To what degree, I’m not sure. I’m certain he’s heavily involved in the planning process, but I doubt he’s micromanaging Dawson as much as some of you claim.

2) Dawson has done a **** poor job of coaching up TVD. We got a D1 quarterback with NFL hype who doesn’t understand how to beat different zone defenses. He’s making mistakes a high school QB doesn’t make. As the QB coach, wtf has he done to help TVD improve since the GT game?

3) TVD is injured. And ya, he’s missing throws he used to make because of it. But the mental side of his game taking a giant **** is more startling. Emory may not have the arm of TVD, but I’m more concerned about whether or not he’s cerebral enough to be a game manager for the duration of the season.

4) We probably can’t run some of things you guys want anymore because we have zero confidence in our QB, which is sad. But, more importantly, teams are matching up against us differently than A&M did and we simply don’t have an answer.

5) I don’t care what side of the coin you fall on, but you should want to beat FSU’s *** on Saturday. If you don’t, **** you!
Click to expand...
Most rational post in this whole chain, very un-CIS like
 
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calinative umstudent said:
I'm gunna need an actual definition of 'bro style' with some actual numbers that can be used to judge whether an offense is 'bro style fizical' or not according to all y'all.

What is it, pass/run ratio? % plays out of 11 personnel or 10/20 personnel vs 12? How often we have a TE in-line? Time of possession/tempo? Pass attempts > 10yards down field? Like what exactly are you saying makes this offense 'bro style' and therefore bad vs any other offense in America? Or is it purely a feel thing which means primarily dependant on W/L?

Ideally we can get a definition before the FSU game that we can use to judge whether this offense is indeed 'bro style' or not. And then we can maybe see how other top offenses stack up in those metrics for that definition and see where they lay on that spectrum.
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For me:
1. Having WRs lined up at TE and having only two targets (Young vs ATM & Clemson) while expecting them to down block on DB/LB/DE.
2. Lining up with 10 players all within 20 yards of one another and forcing a run on 1st and 10. There are 53 yards to a field, use them!
3. Not taking the pass when it is clear the box is overloaded while the receivers are one-on-one or even two wr on one db.
4. Always ask your RB to chip with limited variation even though we have a top 10 pass pro OL.

Zero to do with pass/run ratio, personnel...

Tempo- I don't consider this a Bro vs non-Bro. Clearly, UNC ran it against us and our D couldn't keep up.
 
Return of the U said:
I am not a Dawson sucks guy, but nit absolving him of responsibility either.

Why did you leave off his QB at Kentucky, the ONE year he coordinated without Holgerson?

Patrick Towles 2148 yards, 9 TDs, 14 INTs 56% completion.

Please post all data points, not just ones that fit a narrative.
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That wasn't the one year he coordinated without Holgorsen & that wasn't the point I was making.
 
jmiller said:
You left out the most important stat relevant to this conversation. Clayton Tune attempted passes of 20 yards or more last year under Dawson.

Week 1- two
Week 2- six
Week 3- one
Week 4- seven
Week 5- three
Week 6- Five

Tyler van Dyke this year against Texas A&M - 3 passes attempted for 20 or more yards through the air.

Tyler this year against NC state? 3 passes attempted for 20 or more yards through the air . You can't make this up smh lol

Tyler this year against Miami ohio? 2 passes attempted for 20 or more yards

Tyler against unc? 8 passes attempted for 20 or more yards

Tyler against Bethune? 6 passes attempted of 20 or more yards

Pff exposes alot of people who claim to watch these games.
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None of that was relevant to the overall point I was making.

But you're absolutely right, I definitely don't watch games, in fact I've never watched a game & pretty much just make up most of the stuff I say.

Dawson sucks, I hope he leaves.
 
I almost feel sorry for Cristobal (his 8 million per year salary prevents me from actually pitying him). He thought he was inheriting a NFL caliber QB. Turns out 2021 was fools gold. There are things that Cristobal and Dawson could do to get more out of TVD, but he reality is he just didn't turn out to be the QB we thought he'd be. Happened to a lesser extent with Rosier too. He won 10 in 2017, then ended up getting benched in 2018. Wasn't injury related, teams just figured him out. It happens, but that's part of the reason a team needs to recruit a couple QBs each cycle. I am not hating on the kid, most QBs don't pan out. The signs were there in 2022 though. Maybe Cristobal thought TVD would get better after Gattis.

But even when we were winning games at the beginning of the season, TVD had a lot of shaky moments and got away with throws that could have been picked. The GT game is one where even with just a competent game manager who doesn't do much except take care of the ball, we're probably up by a couple scores and there is no scenario where a late turnover because of a dumb HC decision costs us the game. That should have put TVD on a very short leash. And then Williams manages the game extremely well against Clemson. He didn't do much but he also didn't put the D in bad positions constantly. That should have been enough to show Cristobal that he had a QB who could competently run the Bro Raid. We didn't need a hero QB, just one who threw the ball away instead of getting sacked and could hit a wide open WR on play action passes.

We all also knew TVD was banged up, but Cristobal thought an injured TVD who has been shaky for almost 2 full seasons was better than the freshman QB who showed he was a good enough game manager to beat Clemson. To me, that is inexplicable. Cristobal didn't make the decision to stick with TVD because he liked caveman football (Williams was probably better suited to that as a game manager). It's hard to figure out why TVD played the entirety of the NC St. game.
 
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