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Andrew said:
Scott Rolen has been elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame, preventing a shutout in the BBWAA balloting for the second time in three years.

None of the other 27 players listed on the 2023 Hall ballot cleared the 75% threshold for election, though there were a couple of near-misses. The results of the balloting were revealed Tuesday during a broadcast on MLB.com.

edit: copy and pasting worked for me. What browser and OS are you using?
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Copy and Paste doesn’t work for me any more. Also all the functions on reply or posts. Gifs, Bold, Italics etc I can see the keys but they’re not active. I’m using my IPhone
 
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NC_Canes_11 said:
Like it or not standards for the HOF have changed. The invention of the WAR stat has given way for a bunch of guys to get in that IMO, aren’t the elite of the elite (he has the 9th best WAR of all time for a 3rd baseman). He was also the best defensive 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson (now Arenado has taken that from him).

That was the long way of saying you’re absolutely correct. It’s all about WAR and no longer about putting up actual HOF numbers and winning championships. It’s best to not even care who gets elected. In 10 years it’ll be so watered down, it won’t even be a big deal to the masses.
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Hmmmm...I disagree with this...and here's why.

Right now, they are barely electing anyone. 2 guys in 3 years.

So let's think about this. In past decades, with fewer teams (and fewer players), a bunch of guys were elected. Standards were set. Whatever.

Fast-forward.

Now we have even more teams, even more players. Everyone works out (let's just keep steroids out of the discussion for now), everyone is capable of hitting home runs, etc. But there are guys who play today who are only "equaling" the stats of prior decades' of Hall of Famers, they may not be redefining the standards. Does that mean they are not HOF'ers?

Rolen won a championship (one of your criteria). He was an 8x Gold Glover and a 7x All Star. Those kinds of things used to be good enough to be considered HOF-worthy. What would he need? Another 400 hits?

Bottom line, I don't think the BB HOF has to have some God-like standards. It's a tourist attraction. People go to see the history of the game, and the best players.

And if there ARE "players putting up actual HOF numbers and winning championships", why were there only 2 over this three-year window? There are definitely a lot of fantastic players. How do we only get two in the past three years?
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Hmmmm...I disagree with this...and here's why.

Right now, they are barely electing anyone. 2 guys in 3 years.

So let's think about this. In past decades, with fewer teams (and fewer players), a bunch of guys were elected. Standards were set. Whatever.

Fast-forward.

Now we have even more teams, even more players. Everyone works out (let's just keep steroids out of the discussion for now), everyone is capable of hitting home runs, etc. But there are guys who play today who are only "equaling" the stats of prior decades' of Hall of Famers, they may not be redefining the standards. Does that mean they are not HOF'ers?

Rolen won a championship (one of your criteria). He was an 8x Gold Glover and a 7x All Star. Those kinds of things used to be good enough to be considered HOF-worthy. What would he need? Another 400 hits?

Bottom line, I don't think the BB HOF has to have some God-like standards. It's a tourist attraction. People go to see the history of the game, and the best players.

And if there ARE "players putting up actual HOF numbers and winning championships", why were there only 2 over this three-year window? There are definitely a lot of fantastic players. How do we only get two in the past three years?
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I disagree that the HOF doesn’t need gold like standards. Those standards are what makes you a HOFer. It may be a tourist attraction, but it’s supposed to mean something.

On Rolen, I somewhat argued for him with his defense and his WAR rating. But my point was, without that stat, I don’t believe he was a HOFer. IMO he’s got a case to be a top 15ish 3rd baseman, not top 9.

To your last paragraph, im not saying they aren’t great players, but HOF inductees are legend status. Look at the list from the last 3 years… They either fall into the really good or steroid category. Most of them don’t deserve to get in.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
I disagree that the HOF doesn’t need gold like standards. Those standards are what makes you a HOFer. It may be a tourist attraction, but it’s supposed to mean something.

On Rolen, I somewhat argued for him with his defense and his WAR rating. But my point was, without that stat, I don’t believe he was a HOFer. IMO he’s got a case to be a top 15ish 3rd baseman, not top 9.

To your last paragraph, im not saying they aren’t great players, but HOF inductees are legend status. Look at the list from the last 3 years… They either fall into the really good or steroid category. Most of them don’t deserve to get in.
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What I'm saying is that standards change. Because of how baseball is played now, we may RARELY see a 300 game winner or a 3,000 hit hitter, which were previously considered "gold standards" (is anyone at those levels NOT in the HOF?).

I'm a bit confused on your second paragraph. Are you saying that only 9 3B should be in the HOF? Because I believe that Rolen is the 18th 3B to be inducted. Now, he is only the 9th to be voted in by the writers during his initial eligibility time period, so if that's what you meant, I guess I understand.

I do think that it becomes a bit of a silly distinction for writers to uphold some "standard" by refusing to vote for players, when a bunch of those players end up making it in via the Veterans vote. 100 years from now, is anyone going to care about that difference?

So what I'm asking is this. Baseball is played every year. Every year, players put up stats. Every year, players win championships. So how do we arrive at a time period when almost nobody (and nobody, if you don't think Rolen belongs) is worthy of going into the HOF.

We all have ranking systems. We all know that some HOF'ers are better than others. I just think we should induct the best players in each generation. Period. Comparing them to past and future players is a fun debate, but shouldn't justify "keeping players out" of the HOF...particularly by BASEBALL WRITERS. **** those guys.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
What I'm saying is that standards change. Because of how baseball is played now, we may RARELY see a 300 game winner or a 3,000 hit hitter, which were previously considered "gold standards" (is anyone at those levels NOT in the HOF?).

I'm a bit confused on your second paragraph. Are you saying that only 9 3B should be in the HOF? Because I believe that Rolen is the 18th 3B to be inducted. Now, he is only the 9th to be voted in by the writers during his initial eligibility time period, so if that's what you meant, I guess I understand.

I do think that it becomes a bit of a silly distinction for writers to uphold some "standard" by refusing to vote for players, when a bunch of those players end up making it in via the Veterans vote. 100 years from now, is anyone going to care about that difference?

So what I'm asking is this. Baseball is played every year. Every year, players put up stats. Every year, players win championships. So how do we arrive at a time period when almost nobody (and nobody, if you don't think Rolen belongs) is worthy of going into the HOF.

We all have ranking systems. We all know that some HOF'ers are better than others. I just think we should induct the best players in each generation. Period. Comparing them to past and future players is a fun debate, but shouldn't justify "keeping players out" of the HOF...particularly by BASEBALL WRITERS. **** those guys.
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Baseball writers suck everyone can agree on that. I’m saying that just bc he’s a top 15 player at his position doesn’t automatically make him a HOFer. If there are 50 shortstops better than him, than that’s just what it is. It should always be about your numbers, not that you were the 9th most valuable 3rd baseman of all time so you’re in.

Of course the game has changed so standards change, but there’s also more than one way to get in. Let’s be honest there’s some metrics that will get you in, no matter what (except Pete Rose). Hit .300, have 3k hits, hit 500 homers, have 400 saves, win 300 games, etc.

And saying he was great during his generation, means just that, he was great during his generation. It doesn’t make him an all time great. I mean there are no rules that a certain number of people have to get in every year or over 5 years. We could go 10 years with nobody getting in. It’s supposed to be exclusive. Maybe that’s just a fault of mine and I haven’t caught up with the times, idk. I’m in no way a purist, but I’m not willing to use WAR as the end all be all for someone who was really good, that needs that last little push to get them over the top.
 
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Madabs said:
Copy and Paste doesn’t work for me any more. Also all the functions on reply or posts. Gifs, Bold, Italics etc I can see the keys but they’re not active. I’m using my IPhone
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