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MEGA NCAA Tournament - Omaha Schedule on page 19

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MiamisMoperiestMopes said:
They were working with Driveline years before they started their own thing.

I’ve wondered if UM does anything like that?
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I know we use a Trackman inside the facility - the device that tracks speed, spin, movement, etc. I'm sure they record stuff and talk mechanics but based on a conversation I had with JD back in 2020 I highly doubt they've come far enough to talk biomechanics. Just basic old-school pitching is what they believe in.

Luckily, these facilities are popping up all over the country. Top Velocity, Driveline, etc. and most college kids are spending some time there in off-seasons getting the exposure to it or at least can if they want to.

You can see the principles and teachings from these kinds of places and the basic mechanics and focal points with all these pitchers in the CWS - especially Wake, LSU, and Florida. Vanderbilt has been that way for years. Haven't seen a Miami pitcher that looks like they're well programmed mechanically that would indicate they've bought into biomechanics or had extended exposure to it... they all seem to have different or lack of the basic kinetic movements they teach and focus on... Hip drive, direction, separation, scap load, knee and hip flexion, trunk rotation, weight transfer, etc.

Definitely points to all of the injuries, dead-arm, inconsistencies, lack of growth and development, and lack of depth that we're seeing in the program. Another reason I'd like to avoid "old-school" guys and get someone that believes in it and has exposure to it. Pretty much rule out any name that has surfaced aside from Walter and Tulo. Chris Pollard let go of a guy that was heavy into biomechanics to hire a more "old-school" pitching coach.
 
JayCane20 said:
I know we use a Trackman inside the facility - the device that tracks speed, spin, movement, etc. I'm sure they record stuff and talk mechanics but based on a conversation I had with JD back in 2020 I highly doubt they've come far enough to talk biomechanics. Just basic old-school pitching is what they believe in.

Luckily, these facilities are popping up all over the country. Top Velocity, Driveline, etc. and most college kids are spending some time there in off-seasons getting the exposure to it or at least can if they want to.

You can see the principles and teachings from these kinds of places and the basic mechanics and focal points with all these pitchers in the CWS - especially Wake, LSU, and Florida. Vanderbilt has been that way for years. Haven't seen a Miami pitcher that looks like they're well programmed mechanically that would indicate they've bought into biomechanics or had extended exposure to it... they all seem to have different or lack of the basic kinetic movements they teach and focus on... Hip drive, direction, separation, scap load, knee and hip flexion, trunk rotation, weight transfer, etc.

Definitely points to all of the injuries, dead-arm, inconsistencies, lack of growth and development, and lack of depth that we're seeing in the program. Another reason I'd like to avoid "old-school" guys and get someone that believes in it and has exposure to it. Pretty much rule out any name that has surfaced aside from Walter and Tulo. Chris Pollard let go of a guy that was heavy into biomechanics to hire a more "old-school" pitching coach.
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I just talked to a former Canes pitcher from just a few seasons ago. He said the same thing: JD is completely old school in his approach and has not adapted to the new pitching metrics and philosophies. A medical doctor that graduated 25 years ago still takes continuing education and attends conferences to stay up to date with the advances in medicine. My ideal pitching coach would do the same and not quiet quit in his profession.
 
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Pitcher in the Rye said:
I just talked to a former Canes pitcher from just a few seasons ago. He said the same thing: JD is completely old school in his approach and has not adapted to the new pitching metrics and philosophies. A medical doctor that graduated 25 years ago still takes continuing education and attends conferences to stay up to date with the advances in medicine. My ideal pitching coach would do the same and not quiet quit in his profession.
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Lots of examples out there of old-school guys doing exactly this - best example to me is Mike Maddox but he and the Cardinals parted ways because, while he was fine with and bought into biomechanics, data analysis, etc. in development and coaching of his guys.. he wasn't fully bought in to strict reliance on it and still wanted the human element for game plan, strategy, and even in making adjustments. Arguably the best pitching coach in baseball imo. Mozeliak wants strict reliance on data analytics 100% of the time. Even in grey area - if it says 50.1% you do it.

For example, Wainwright has pretty low spin rates except for his curve ball which is an elite spin rate - best in baseball. Conflicting data because it says his fastball should be pitched down in the zone. High spin rates = up in the zone. But pitching down with a big loopy curve takes away the effectiveness of the curve because it sticks out coming out of his hand. Maddox wanted him pitching up in the zone and disguising the curve. That strategy worked great. He even shifted to a sinker that could be used down sparingly.

Well now they want him throwing down, using his sinker more, and then using his curve the same way he always has and he's getting lit up... all after he had 3 strong years in a row and basically reinvented himself and resurrected his career under Maddox.
 
I am an untrained regular fan but I've felt our pitching suffers from serious inconsistencies (e.g., Rosario) that to me seem like failure to pay proper attention to consistent body mechanics. I swear I see some of our guys lurching to the left, arm position all haywire, whereas it had all been good a batter or two before.

Am I hallucinating?
 
JayCane20 said:
Lots of examples out there of old-school guys doing exactly this - best example to me is Mike Maddox but he and the Cardinals parted ways because, while he was fine with and bought into biomechanics, data analysis, etc. in development and coaching of his guys.. he wasn't fully bought in to strict reliance on it and still wanted the human element for game plan, strategy, and even in making adjustments. Arguably the best pitching coach in baseball imo. Mozeliak wants strict reliance on data analytics 100% of the time. Even in grey area - if it says 50.1% you do it.

For example, Wainwright has pretty low spin rates except for his curve ball which is an elite spin rate - best in baseball. Conflicting data because it says his fastball should be pitched down in the zone. High spin rates = up in the zone. But pitching down with a big loopy curve takes away the effectiveness of the curve because it sticks out coming out of his hand. Maddox wanted him pitching up in the zone and disguising the curve. That strategy worked great. He even shifted to a sinker that could be used down sparingly.

Well now they want him throwing down, using his sinker more, and then using his curve the same way he always has and he's getting lit up... all after he had 3 strong years in a row and basically reinvented himself and resurrected his career under Maddox.
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Yep. The big league guys I've talked to and heard speak at conferences say that analytics should just be one tool of many. It should not be do or die. Like the famous example of Kevin Cash removing Blake Snell from Game 6 in 2020. Just no feel for the situation.
 
stormsurge said:
I am an untrained regular fan but I've felt our pitching suffers from serious inconsistencies (e.g., Rosario) that to me seem like failure to pay proper attention to consistent body mechanics. I swear I see some of our guys lurching to the left, arm position all haywire, whereas it had all been good a batter or two before.

Am I hallucinating?
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Not hallucinating. For me.. the 2 that stand out are Rosario and Ligon. Both have terrible lower body/hip drive and direction and it results in arm drag - leading to both of their issues: Roasrio - arm drag = inconsistent delivery, lower arm angle, no control and no deception. He throws 95 but it doesn't look 95 because hitters see it so early. On the other hand he has elite and noticeable rotational torque. That's where his velocity comes from. He just sits down on his lower half instead of driving to the plate. A scout for the Giants that I talk to, also an assistant coach in NAIA, has got eyes on him and they think they can do something with him.

Ligon - arm drag = over compensating to pull his arm through and more stress on the shoulder and dead arm. He's an upper body thrower - very common from former position players (which he was) that aren't coached in proper pitching mechanics i.e biomechanics.

Ziehl has a great lower half. To me it looks like he has an easy 3-4 mph he can gain from some small adjustments. I'd like to get some advanced monitoring on his torso rotation. His mechanics are quiet so he may generate more torque than it looks like he does. He could make minor tweaks to his upper body. He's very over the top and long in his arm path instead of short and "elastic" and then getting extension - he's built like Spencer Strider and Max Meyer but delivers like he's 6'5.
 
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Great response.

Another question:

Do/Can/Will teams simulate batting practice indoors with a CGI pitcher that delivers different pitches from different positions at different velocities?

Can we train our guys to recognize pitches and decide more quickly and more accurately whether to swing or not and how to swing if we do swing?

I am just sick of seeing our guys look like windmills at off speed pitches.
 
WanderFranco said:
Yep. The big league guys I've talked to and heard speak at conferences say that analytics should just be one tool of many. It should not be do or die. Like the famous example of Kevin Cash removing Blake Snell from Game 6 in 2020. Just no feel for the situation.
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The old-school baseball guys in tune with analytics are cruising through baseball these days with the exception of the Rays - they're just so deep.

But teams that are relying on their eyes and understanding the game are just destroying the front offices that think the analytics are helping them plus cutting costs, etc.

Braves, Rangers, DBacks, Orioles, Reds, Giants etc.. all old school. Cardinals have been old school forever and now try to shift to this strict data analytics bs and are having an awful season. The Whitesox t The Dodgers, Astros, Padres, Mets, etc. trying to go more data analytics based to keep up and cut costs at the same time..

The Rays are the outlier.
 
stormsurge said:
Great response.

Another question:

Do/Can/Will teams simulate batting practice indoors with a CGI pitcher that delivers different pitches from different positions at different velocities?

Can we train our guys to recognize pitches and decide more quickly and more accurately whether to swing or not and how to swing if we do swing?

I am just sick of seeing our guys look like windmills at off speed pitches.
Click to expand...
Tennessee, LSU, TCU supposedly use a VR product. I took a couple of swings and thought it was neat. The guy who showed me said it helps him a lot to pick up pitches.

winreality.com

Home | Virtual Reality Baseball & Softball Training

Give them an edge with unlimited game-speed pitches in a simulated VR experience. At home, any season, any time. Works on the Meta Quest 2, Quest 3, and Quest
winreality.com winreality.com
 
stormsurge said:
Great response.

Another question:

Do/Can/Will teams simulate batting practice indoors with a CGI pitcher that delivers different pitches from different positions at different velocities?

Can we train our guys to recognize pitches and decide more quickly and more accurately whether to swing or not and how to swing if we do swing?

I am just sick of seeing our guys look like windmills at off speed pitches.
Click to expand...
They have that. They also have the virtual reality hookups. Kids can get 50 "live" at bats a day if they want to.

I mentioned it in another post but the struggles with pitching that is "good" or better completely shutting us down plus struggling with OOC and midweek games, most of the time point to scouting. They don't have the right information or it's not detailed/good enough information. Or they're not putting enough time into studying it and applying it when they get in the box. There's a disconnect somewhere. Back to the "old school" just see the ball and hit the ball attitude versus everyone else knowing and exploiting every advantage they could possibly have.
 
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MiamisMoperiestMopes said:
Tennessee, LSU, TCU supposedly use a VR product. I took a couple of swings and thought it was neat. The guy who showed me said it helps him a lot to pick up pitches.

winreality.com

Home | Virtual Reality Baseball & Softball Training

Give them an edge with unlimited game-speed pitches in a simulated VR experience. At home, any season, any time. Works on the Meta Quest 2, Quest 3, and Quest
winreality.com winreality.com
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This is what we have. Don't know if it's that exact brand but they have it.
 
I have been all over Gino and even Morris for the last few years of his tenure about the lack of development of hitters in the program. Gino has been absolutely terrible since he took over minus the year Toral hit all those homeruns and this year. I'll give him credit, he seemed to really develop the class of guys about to be drafted. Yes, they went quiet against good pitching but that's not uncommon. From a full-season view, it was a great output of offense. I think the new facility, access to VR and the pitching machine with the CGI capability really helped that. Not trying to really discredit him for that. His managerial tendencies for the bullpen, base paths, scouting reports, etc. were what was lacking.

On the other hand, JD hasn't done a thing with a right handed pitcher since 2020. He's been pretty spot on developing or getting production from lefties for a while now. For obvious reasons, he can't develop or scout right handed pitching. Bargfeldt, Palmquist, Scinta, Schlesingert, etc. all have made progress under him in recent years plus many before that.
 
JayCane20 said:
They have that. They also have the virtual reality hookups. Kids can get 50 "live" at bats a day if they want to.

I mentioned it in another post but the struggles with pitching that is "good" or better completely shutting us down plus struggling with OOC and midweek games, most of the time point to scouting. They don't have the right information or it's not detailed/good enough information. Or they're not putting enough time into studying it and applying it when they get in the box. There's a disconnect somewhere. Back to the "old school" just see the ball and hit the ball attitude versus everyone else knowing and exploiting every advantage they could possibly have.
Click to expand...
What I'd like to see is if there is a way to photo upcoming pitchers we're going to face, feed it into a computer and generate the VR simulation of that pitcher: velocity, release point, spin on the ball, etc.

In this way we could get batting practice against their likely starter and likely bullpen guy - maybe 2-3 of these opposing pitchers.

I'm struck by how many times a 2nd or 3rd AB is so much better against the same pitcher in the same game.
 
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stormsurge said:
What I'd like to see is if there is a way to photo upcoming pitchers we're going to face, feed it into a computer and generate the VR simulation of that pitcher: velocity, release point, spin on the ball, etc.

In this way we could get batting practice against their likely starter and likely bullpen guy - maybe 2-3 of these opposing pitchers.

I'm struck by how many times a 2nd or 3rd AB is so much better against the same pitcher in the same game.
Click to expand...
We used to have one at a facility I was at so I'm not sure exactly what they're like now but you could customize and adjust the side the pitcher throws from, the height of the pitcher, and then mess with the velocity and angle of the pitches and the pitch mix. Then pick from like basic preloaded mechanics. Wasn't exact but it was a good replica. You could get it pretty close.
 
Man these arms that TN continues to run out there. This freshman is nasty. Vitello clearly makes pitching a recruiting priority as it should be. His staff is all big kids with big velo
 
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