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Myth Buster: Talent or Coaching?

RVACane said:
Yeah he’s Andy Crosland.
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Lol, No....Andy is Caucasian, and a FG Kicker. That's Andy behind my right shoulder.
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Brooklyndee said:
Not sure if that's sarcasm or not. What I will say is it would've been similar. Barry would've took what made us great and banned it from the team IMMEDIATELY and Coker was the eventual death of our team because he lacked any of the common threads that kept us going. With Alvarez we would've remained good long term. But just that. He was alfraud minus no dnofritos...
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Long term good sounds better than 20 years of bad
 
TimeBum said:
Here's an interesting article about the evolution of Bamas offense.

theathletic.com

Nick Saban’s Alabama offense has an ambiguous origin myth and a striking evolution

Bruce Feldman attempts to trace the evolution of the Alabama offense to one singular moment.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

Basically, Saban told Kiffin he wanted to do something different with the offense and then let Kiffin figure it out. And Kiffin had the balls to p iss off Saban and get away with it. He earned a long leash because he had NFL and P5 HC experience. Is Dawson going to have that level of independence? I doubt it.

And the most interesting part to me:

“Fit the scheme to the athlete, not the other way around. That was the biggest lesson learned there. Get out of your ways and get into whatever works for the player.”

We know with 100% certainty that Cristobal did not fit the scheme to the athletes last season. This is indisputable. So if he learned so much from Saban, why did he force the bro-style offense onto the players last season ? (Gattis basically ran the same Joe Moorehead offense that Cristobal had at Oregon, so it's obvious that Cristobal went to his comfort zone). He has been a HC for around a decade, so he doesn't get to use the excuse that a first year coach can use of "learning on the job what works and what doesn't."
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Rellyrell said:
For the record, and u can verify this w/ both @TimeBum & @crossover22[]_[] I’ve defended Mario & tried to justify & reason upon the 2022 season to the best of my abilities, white knighting the chit out of this platform. However, what I’ve been noticing is this built in excuse in case next season is the same chit.

This “not enough talent” b.s have got to stop at a certain point. I feel in my plums that Mario can turn it around, but if I’m being frank, most of that is based upon fan-believe vs. a tangible fact.

We need to continue to stack talent to get to the mountain top, but in the ACC? Nah; we’ve had more than enough talent to win the Coastal more than once.
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The last paragraph resonates. We should have won the freaking Corstal on multiple occasions.
 
Home Slice said:
The last paragraph resonates. We should have won the freaking Corstal on multiple occasions.
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I believe that’s the lynch pin that kills the whole argument. No one have said we had enough talent to beat a Clemson, or any upper echelon team; but, the talent disparity we’ve had over GT, Pitt, UVA, Duke, VT?? Since 2004???! Come on! The only other school who was remotely close to us in talent was UNC, so I can “reasonably” excuse & justify our struggles w/ them; but, these other bums??! Hellllll nah. That makes zero sense.

I also think seeing Richt take over Golden’s team & showing the immediate dividends of coaching kinda proves my point; mind u, this was Richt on the down fall!
 
RVACane said:
That would explain in part why @Ricaneswag changed his name since D doesn’t win titles anymore…

Except at UGA.
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He means his defense aint good enough anymore thats why hes crying cause UGA is getting all the goons. His tune would be different if he was getting those interior monsters UGA been stacking. TCU still hasnt scored and everyone knew they or Michigan were getting stomped.
 
Rellyrell said:
I believe that’s the lynch pin that kills the whole argument. No one have said we had enough talent to beat a Clemson, or any upper echelon team; but, the talent disparity we’ve had over GT, Pitt, UVA, Duke, VT?? Since 2004???! Come on! The only other school who was remotely close to us in talent was UNC, so I can “reasonably” excuse & justify our struggles w/ them; but, these other bums??! Hellllll nah. That makes zero sense.

I also think seeing Richt take over Golden’s team & showing the immediate dividends of coaching kinda proves my point; mind u, this was Richt on the down fall!
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I agree with u we shouldnt lose those games. On paper we recruited better than those squads. But im in the camp that if u f around with ok talent and misses, u going to find out. So the Dukes can beat you when u recruit like we did. Saban his first year at bama lost to a D2 school. Does he not know how to coach cause of that? He needed to stack to beat those teams, he didnt out x and o Louisiana Monroe. My point is you can lose to anyone when u recruit mid, our tier of recruiting was like a 3 out of 5. Where Bama in the 5th tier so eventually they wouldnt lose to ULM, same here we can lose to anyone cause of the roster.
 
Angry Ibis said:
Long term good sounds better than 20 years of bad
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Only issue with that is it wouldn't have been long term good. It would've been the same end results because locals wouldn't have bought into his ways here. I met Alvarez a couple times and had a few of my boys played for him. It's a common theme his thing wouldn't have worked here at all. So what he would've done is precisely what Coker did BUT he would've recruited average enough and been disciplined enough to keep us atleast as a middle of the pack competent school. For me that is very much the same thing as the death sentence that we ended up getting regardless. He would've stayed around 5 years tops. What then? Same end result & you also have to have the assumption with it that shalalalalala would've gave him the same resources with us that he got with Wisconsin. She wouldn't have. SO square one here we are again.
 
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Ricaneswag said:
I agree with u we shouldnt lose those games. On paper we recruited better than those squads. But im in the camp that if u f around with ok talent and misses, u going to find out. So the Dukes can beat you when u recruit like we did. Saban his first year at bama lost to a D2 school. Does he not know how to coach cause of that? He needed to stack to beat those teams, he didnt out x and o Louisiana Monroe. My point is you can lose to anyone when u recruit mid, our tier of recruiting was like a 3 out of 5. Where Bama in the 5th tier so eventually they wouldnt lose to ULM, same here we can lose to anyone cause of the roster.
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Oh no, Young Macho; I was having a splendid day in Sunny L.A. Birds r chirping; young ladies out in the Dukes as Spring is in full bloom…and then I see this chit.

Why would u do this to me, my boy? Better yet; why would u do this urself, & add more gas on to the fire that’s burning after a 5-7 season???!

U know y I gave Mario a pass for yr 1; b/c of Nick Saban. Yes, in my OP “Chicken or The Egg” in defense of Mario, notice this nugget I stated:
Rellyrell said:
I’ve clearly warned the make up of this roster, the mentality that’s crept in, and somehow you’ve convinced urself that was going to change b/c of a coach? The overwhelming data shows when a coach takes over a dumpster fire, it takes 2-3 yrs to clear out the filth. I remember Bama losing to ULM at home in 2007 & the vitriol that was spewed by friends who r Bama fans who wanted him gone. I remember SC fans hating the Carroll hire & hated him even more going 6-6 yr 1, including a baffling, pathetic performance against Utah in their bowl game (MWC Utah, not Pac-12 Utah)
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U see, I quoted Saban’s 2007 season here, & that lost against ULM. However, U know the difference between Saban 2007 vs. Miami 2022? Saban inherited a team under sanctions, Mario did not. You know the other difference?

Alabama’s recruiting classes for the 2007 season:
2003 - 41st
2004 - 20th
2005 - 15th
2006 - 12th
2007 (Saban’s 1st transition class) - 12th

Miami’s recruiting classes for the 2022 season:
2018 - 8th
2019 - 17th
2020 - 11th
2021 - 11th
2022 (Mario’s 1st transition class) - 13th

So tell me, who was dealt the worst hand in their first year?

OK, let’s get to the crux of the matter; u said Saban didn’t start winning until he stacked talent. Well, his first talented class didn’t come until the following yr when he brought the #3 class. That means the majority of his roster was still filled with them “bums” from 2004-07. So surely, the results should follow as well in yr 2, correct? Nope; that same roster went 12-2 in year 2, winning their division. Those two losses were in the SEC Title game against the eventual Nat’l Champions UF Gators & the Sugar Bowl against an undefeated Utah team.

2008:
Bama’s leading QB: Class of 2005
Bama’s leading RB: Class of 2005
Bama’s leading WR: Class of 2008
Bama’s leading tackler: Class of 2007
Bama’s leading sacker: Class of 2005
Bama’s two leaders in int: Class of 2004 & 2006

So riddle me this: how in tf did all of these “mid-guys” who went 7-6 w/ sanctions in year 1 under Saban all of sudden lead their team to 12 wins in yr 2 under Saban? Could it possibly be Saban walked in to a bunch of bull chit that included poor work ethic that was handed down from bum coach after bum coach once the cheating *** Gene Stallings resigned in 1996? Could it possibly be that Saban saw what he had, and challenged those guys to be better than what was displayed in yr 1, by assisting w/ putting them in the best position possible, playing to all their strengths in the interim?

So I don’t wanna hear about Saban stacking talent to win; that stacked talent came year 3, & it’s been on-going ever since. Saban took a mid roster & immediately turned them around by yr 2. There was no transfer portal to supplement or any of that chit.

Now, allegedly, the way Mario moves is supposed to be from what he witnessed on staff from Saban, right? Then w/ the coaching staff change, and brining in an elite 2023 class, I would expect way better results yr 2 then yr 1.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Oh no, Young Macho; I was having a splendid day in Sunny L.A. Birds r chirping; young ladies out in the Dukes as Spring is in full bloom…and then I see this chit.

Why would u do this to me, my boy? Better yet; why would u do this urself, & add more gas on to the fire that’s burning after a 5-7 season???!

U know y I gave Mario a pass for yr 1; b/c of Nick Saban. Yes, in my OP “Chicken or The Egg” in defense of Mario, notice this nugget I stated:


U see, I quoted Saban’s 2007 season here, & that lost against ULM. However, U know the difference between Saban 2007 vs. Miami 2022? Saban inherited a team under sanctions, Mario did not. You know the other difference?

Alabama’s recruiting classes for the 2007 season:
2003 - 41st
2004 - 20th
2005 - 15th
2006 - 12th
2007 (Saban’s 1st transition class) - 12th

Miami’s recruiting classes for the 2022 season:
2018 - 8th
2019 - 17th
2020 - 11th
2021 - 11th
2022 (Mario’s 1st transition class) - 13th

So tell me, who was dealt the worst hand in their first year?

OK, let’s get to the crux of the matter; u said Saban didn’t start winning until he stacked talent. Well, his first talented class didn’t come until the following yr when he brought the #3 class. That means the majority of his roster was still filled with them “bums” from 2004-07. So surely, the results should follow as well in yr 2, correct? Nope; that same roster went 12-2 in year 2, winning their division. Those two losses were in the SEC Title game against the eventual Nat’l Champions UF Gators & the Sugar Bowl against an undefeated Utah team.

2008:
Bama’s leading QB: Class of 2005
Bama’s leading RB: Class of 2005
Bama’s leading WR: Class of 2008
Bama’s leading tackler: Class of 2007
Bama’s leading sacker: Class of 2005
Bama’s two leaders in int: Class of 2004 & 2006

So riddle me this: how in tf did all of these “mid-guys” who went 7-6 w/ sanctions in year 1 under Saban all of sudden lead their team to 12 wins in yr 2 under Saban? Could it possibly be Saban walked in to a bunch of bull chit that included poor work ethic that was handed down from bum coach after bum coach once the cheating *** Gene Stallings resigned in 1996? Could it possibly be that Saban saw what he had, and challenged those guys to be better than what was displayed in yr 1, by assisting w/ putting them in the best position possible, playing to all their strengths in the interim?

So I don’t wanna hear about Saban stacking talent to win; that stacked talent came year 3, & it’s been on-going ever since. Saban took a mid roster & immediately turned them around by yr 2. There was no transfer portal to supplement or any of that chit.

Now, allegedly, the way Mario moves is supposed to be from what he witnessed on staff from Saban, right? Then w/ the coaching staff change, and brining in an elite 2023 class, I would expect way better results yr 2 then yr 1.
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I am beginning to think The Professor from And1 Mixtape fame took his name from you.
 
Rellyrell said:
Oh no, Young Macho; I was having a splendid day in Sunny L.A. Birds r chirping; young ladies out in the Dukes as Spring is in full bloom…and then I see this chit.

Why would u do this to me, my boy? Better yet; why would u do this urself, & add more gas on to the fire that’s burning after a 5-7 season???!

U know y I gave Mario a pass for yr 1; b/c of Nick Saban. Yes, in my OP “Chicken or The Egg” in defense of Mario, notice this nugget I stated:


U see, I quoted Saban’s 2007 season here, & that lost against ULM. However, U know the difference between Saban 2007 vs. Miami 2022? Saban inherited a team under sanctions, Mario did not. You know the other difference?

Alabama’s recruiting classes for the 2007 season:
2003 - 41st
2004 - 20th
2005 - 15th
2006 - 12th
2007 (Saban’s 1st transition class) - 12th

Miami’s recruiting classes for the 2022 season:
2018 - 8th
2019 - 17th
2020 - 11th
2021 - 11th
2022 (Mario’s 1st transition class) - 13th

So tell me, who was dealt the worst hand in their first year?

OK, let’s get to the crux of the matter; u said Saban didn’t start winning until he stacked talent. Well, his first talented class didn’t come until the following yr when he brought the #3 class. That means the majority of his roster was still filled with them “bums” from 2004-07. So surely, the results should follow as well in yr 2, correct? Nope; that same roster went 12-2 in year 2, winning their division. Those two losses were in the SEC Title game against the eventual Nat’l Champions UF Gators & the Sugar Bowl against an undefeated Utah team.

2008:
Bama’s leading QB: Class of 2005
Bama’s leading RB: Class of 2005
Bama’s leading WR: Class of 2008
Bama’s leading tackler: Class of 2007
Bama’s leading sacker: Class of 2005
Bama’s two leaders in int: Class of 2004 & 2006

So riddle me this: how in tf did all of these “mid-guys” who went 7-6 w/ sanctions in year 1 under Saban all of sudden lead their team to 12 wins in yr 2 under Saban? Could it possibly be Saban walked in to a bunch of bull chit that included poor work ethic that was handed down from bum coach after bum coach once the cheating *** Gene Stallings resigned in 1996? Could it possibly be that Saban saw what he had, and challenged those guys to be better than what was displayed in yr 1, by assisting w/ putting them in the best position possible, playing to all their strengths in the interim?

So I don’t wanna hear about Saban stacking talent to win; that stacked talent came year 3, & it’s been on-going ever since. Saban took a mid roster & immediately turned them around by yr 2. There was no transfer portal to supplement or any of that chit.

Now, allegedly, the way Mario moves is supposed to be from what he witnessed on staff from Saban, right? Then w/ the coaching staff change, and brining in an elite 2023 class, I would expect way better results yr 2 then yr 1.
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AY u got me I didnt even see that lol, white flag I surrender. I see some of your points but I will always lean thats its a talent thing. We can disagree u still my boy but u bodied me with that last post lol. Facts
 
Ricaneswag said:
AY u got me I didnt even see that lol, white flag I surrender. I see some of your points but I will always lean thats its a talent thing. We can disagree u still my boy but u bodied me with that last post lol. Facts
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They go hand in hand, fa sho; all I was sayin is we’ve had more than enough to win the formerly recognized Coastal more than once. When we joined the ACC, as much as we wanna complain about Tobacco Rd, those mofos bent over for us to help their brand. They put us in one of the weakest P5 divisions in all of CFB & we squandered it all w/ inferior coaching.

Regardless, now it’s time to continue to stack chips, period. I think Mario will be able to do that; but, we gotta show something in 2023, too. Competition for stacking talent around these parts r way different than in Oregon. U got vultures buzzing all around here w/ UGA, Bama, UF, OSU, & FSU.
 
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