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My takeaways after yesterdays game plus an outlook for the future.

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ladycane said:
But why?
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The theory is injury prevention.

We called it shell. Helmet and shoulder pads. Shorts instead of pants. In my experience, it made practice less intense physicallly AND mentally.

In my experience, the quality of our program dropped the more shell we ran. We came off a state title with a new coach who wasn’t a natural leader. Some guys slacked in the offseason and stayed hurt, so we practiced like that more.

I would really like to know the approach top modern coaches take in this regard. My stance is, if you are fighting complacency, rebuilding, or trying to overcome a plateau, you use this as little as possible. But if you got a crew of focused, fundamentally sound killers destroying each other everyday, it might be better to do more thud.
 
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SayWhat said:
**** man. Why didn't you tell me about that GT lead up. Wish I had read it or heard someone say it if it was out there on the net. Maybe I did, but chose to ignore it.

I was all done with Coker before that VT win and adamant about it. Don't get me wrong, **** of a nice man and someone anyone should like on a personal level, but as the head of this program I was done. Sucked me back in and with that VT win, I was there and talked with him, some players, even Corso, and other coaches after the game.

I was wrong about Coker and company I thought and then GT won. It literally threw me for a loop. In a lot of ways that was my worst loss as a fan since I didn't see it coming at all. That one VT followed by the GT loss game cost me my belief in myself as a student of the game. I've since recovered, lol, but at the time it was crazy.
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that game really was the beginning of the end of the Coker era. People point to the LSU blowout in the Peach Bowl, but right then and there that night, was went it began
 
TruCane81 said:
The theory is injury prevention.

We called it shell. Helmet and shoulder pads. Shorts instead of pants. In my experience, it made practice less intense physicallly AND mentally.

In my experience, the quality of our program dropped the more shell we ran. We came off a state title with a new coach who wasn’t a natural leader. Some guys slacked in the offseason and stayed hurt, so we practiced like that more.

I would really like to know the approach top modern coaches take in this regard. My stance is, if you are fighting complacency, rebuilding, or trying to overcome a plateau, you use this as little as possible. But if you got a crew of focused, fundamentally sound killers destroying each other everyday, it might be better to do more thud.
Click to expand...
I don't know what they are doing now, but Alabama used to tackle full speed against the scout team some practices.
 
TruCane81 said:
The theory is injury prevention.

We called it shell. Helmet and shoulder pads. Shorts instead of pants. In my experience, it made practice less intense physicallly AND mentally.

In my experience, the quality of our program dropped the more shell we ran. We came off a state title with a new coach who wasn’t a natural leader. Some guys slacked in the offseason and stayed hurt, so we practiced like that more.

I would really like to know the approach top modern coaches take in this regard. My stance is, if you are fighting complacency, rebuilding, or trying to overcome a plateau, you use this as little as possible. But if you got a crew of focused, fundamentally sound killers destroying each other everyday, it might be better to do more thud.
Click to expand...
Best way to prevent injuries is by teaching proper technique.

Alabamas LB got hurt because of poor technique against us
 
Defense didn’t play all that bad. They held App to a couple of td’s and one FG. Money downs, App was 5/15 on third’s. That’s okay.

The real issue is King. Not certain if it’s the lingering knee injury that has caused to regress or just flat out playing poorly. Fact is, he doesn’t read defenses, makes poor throws and is slower laterally. He continues to play like this and he won’t last as starter.

The second main issue here is Diaz. The captain of his vessel is out at sea lost. Plain and simple. The man might be a decent DC but he’s no HC. It’s the same mental mistakes that plague the team and that’s on the HC.
 
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561Cane said:
Defense didn’t play all that bad. They held App to a couple of td’s and one FG. Money downs, App was 5/15 on third’s. That’s okay.
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I wish I could agree, but I cant. App State killed themselves against, either due to poor QB play or by taking out Peoples, which still baffles me.
 
Is it possible all of King's NIL deals are distracting him? Is he not watching enough film? I don't remember reading defenses to be such a big issue with him last season. Just a thought.
 
I finally watched the game and I agree with the original post.

King is off, he's not being patient in the pocket when its there, probably because half the time he gets blown up. I am not calling for a change cause he's still keeping the chains moving with his legs but at some point that will get shut down. Or he will get hurt again. We have talent at WR. Smith looks like he could become a stud for us but we are not getting him enough touches. King needs to hang in there more when he can and stop rolling into pressure.

My main issue with this team as I've said before is we are lacking in fundamental football 101. We have been for years IMO. The simple things make a big difference. Its bad tackling, blocking, and penalties. They all add up. The coaches have to get the kids in the right positions to succeed and its not happening on both sides of the ball.

If not for our Punter and Kicker the last two years Manny would be out of a job...
 
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SmokeyRone said:
A lucky win, ( like VT, NCSU, UVA, last year, for instance), that prolongs our agony.
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last year we won the close games, the year before we lost them. This year looks like the last two going forward. We are not good enough to blow anyone out and for the most part we wont get blown out. I guess that's reality right now for the program.

Unless the coaching staff starts putting the players in a position to succeed and the players stepping up in certain units we are in for a roller coaster every week.
 
561Cane said:
Defense didn’t play all that bad. They held App to a couple of td’s and one FG. Money downs, App was 5/15 on third’s. That’s okay.

The real issue is King. Not certain if it’s the lingering knee injury that has caused to regress or just flat out playing poorly. Fact is, he doesn’t read defenses, makes poor throws and is slower laterally. He continues to play like this and he won’t last as starter.

The second main issue here is Diaz. The captain of his vessel is out at sea lost. Plain and simple. The man might be a decent DC but he’s no HC. It’s the same mental mistakes that plague the team and that’s on the HC.
Click to expand...

The defense probably gets a B- from me, and that's maybe being a little generous. It wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't great either. We gave up 4.47 YPP and 16 points. That will win you a lot of games. But again, plays were there to be made, and those numbers probably look better simply because of the other team's ineptitude.

I will say this, in 2019, the last normal year we had, 4.47 YPP allowed would be 4th best in the country. So you can't hold a team to 4.47 YPP and say the defense was terrible. It wasn't. But there are still way too many busts, there isn't nearly enough pass rush, and the really weird part to me is it seems like anytime we need a big stop, we don't get it. When the game is just going back and forth trading punts, couple big plays here and there, we seem to thrive. But last week, we force a turnover deep, score, it's 7-0, we're off and running...and they go 69 yards on the next drive to tie the game. Bunch of stalled drives, we get lucky with the safety, we get a FG, boom, they run the kick back. Rest of the half isn't noteworthy, we get the ball to start the 2nd half, nice drive into the redzone, kick a FG. OK, we're up 5, it's been a struggle but here we go. Nope, they go right down the field on a 70 yard drive and get to our 5, we hold for an answering FG. More trading punts, we finally get another drive going in the 4th quarter after the defense makes a nice stop deep and we get great field position, and get a FG. Up 5 with under 10 minutes to go. If you get a stop and a score, the game is over. What happens? Right down the field to take the lead.

It's maddening. It just seems like no matter what, when we take a step forward, we immediately take 2 backwards. So the defense deserves some credit, it's a 60 minute game and there were stretches where App State did virtually nothing on offense. They did have a turnover, 5 punts, and a turnover on downs. But it's just always so disjointed. When we have momentum, we give it right back. It's truly maddening to be invested in this team, and it doesn't seem to matter who the coach is.
 
Hogan said:
Usually I am not known here for being the negative Nancy, I actually defended Manny, Lashlee and King for quite some time, but I´ve had it. I will split this up in certain areas and go from there.

1. We got very lucky.

There are several reasons as to why I make that statement:

- Chase Brice was their QB.
- Their head coach refused to let Peoples run the ball for some very odd reason that I have not figured out.
- They didnt stick to what they do well and executed horribly in key situations (again, because of Brice)

If App State turns up with a somewhat decent QB who does not misfire everything high, they win this game easily. Brice made some throws that made me question why no one else can play QB for them.

2. We still got outcoached.

Even with App State making mistakes, especially regarding their offensive personnel, they were much more prepared and played far better fundamentally sound football for four quarters. Based on the personnel they have and the talent they have, especially athletically, this should not have been a matchup highly favored for them. We have more speed, we are bigger and we had more talent at many positions. However, this coaching staff remains confident in a defensive scheme that is just utterly **** and there is an obvious disconnect between Lashlee and King at this point. But I will get into that one later.

App State went out in their 3-3-5, usually had three down lineman with one attacking the center, and let the linebackers fly around and make plays. They looked prepared and knew what the **** was up on every play. We didnt. We still do not know how to consistenly run the ball against Tite, we still run the same old Inside Zone play and it mind blows my mind how we still cannot run even a **** counter. A ******* counter is all I am asking for, try to get your speed on the perimeter... nope. No chance. You let an undersized D-Line dominate you with fundamentals on the inside and you run slow developing option plays with a QB who simply cannot execute it.

3. Kings spot might be in danger sooner than we think.

Which automatically leads me to this point. There is an obvious disconnect between King and Lashlee and the probable reason is that King cannot execute anything that Lashlee asks of him once an option play comes into it. The most dominant offensive strategy in college football is the RPO due to offensive lineman being allowed to whatever they want to do. Miami cant run it, because the QB either cant read the keys or reads it incorrectly. The amount of times where King hands off instead of tucking it and running freely and vice versa is so high, I have to question whether TVD cant execute it either. Its not his type of offense; the most success King had as a QB was when he played in Houston and had the keys to a Run and Shoot offense led by Kendall Briles. When Deriq King transferred away from Houston, it was due to poor offensive performances under Dana Holgorson, who is an Air Raid disciple. Lashlee ran a lot of Air Raid at SMU and we all saw how the offense throwing wise can be executed against Oklahoma State last season. Looking back at it, I was baffled to see how well Perry played while having 6 and 8 as his outside receivers against a good defensive unit.

There was one play at the end of the game, Deriq King took the snap and faced a three man rush. Not even a heavy one, App State just played coverage basically. King went through his reads while having no pressure and after three seconds suddenly decided to scramble right and hit Rambo on a two yard completion. I can guarantee to all of you, neither TVD or Garcia do that. They sit back and wait for someone to run free.

I get that there is a lot of criticism regarding Lashlee and I am the first one to agree with it. He currently playcalls a scared game because he is not trusting his QB. However, he is also not tailoring his offense to the personnel available and is not helping them out, whether thats run or pass. The analyst from the broadcast actually put it very well, they need to get KIng into a rhythm with simple throws. That didnt happen all game.

4. The fundamentals from this football team are the worst that I have seen from a football team.

With all due respect, everything this team teaches about fundamentals should be torn apart and lit on fire. Or, as Kevin Garnett once said to Craig Sager: "I dont care where you got this suit from. You take this and you burn it. So when you get done with this you should be buttass-naked." This team needs to be coached up from the ground up. Leverage, hand placement, leg drive, everything. Nobody makes an effort to ensure that the guy in better position can make a play. Everyone is fighting for themselves. I have never seen that. There is no set up, no disguise, nothing. Tackling is insanely bad, App State tackled miles better compared to what we do. The missed tackles App State had could be counted on one hand. Their defense is set up for the D-Line to do the dirty work and hold gaps, while linebackers and box safeties fly around and make plays.

And if we are at it with fundamentals: Penalties. Holy ****, this team does not learn. You got a TD on a big 4th down and it gets called back for an illegal formation. Thats ******* junior league. At least nobody got hit with a targeting, although Bolden almost took Tyrique out.

5. Manny Diaz is over his head. He wont make it.

When Manny made the defense his job in the offseason, I actually had somewhat high hopes. They have been squashed within two games. The scheme is the exact same as we always run, we substitute way too much, we are overreliant on sending the house because we do not have a coverage scheme that is, you know, good and even if we send the house, the QB throws in the flat or on a quick slant and its butt naked. Running a 4-2-5 these days is already not that smart, considering more and more top teams make the switch to stack defenses, three man fronts, whilst putting more and more speed on the field. We have been figured out years ago and still have not made any changes whatsoever. Players are frustrated and it really showed yesterday. Manny needs to throw his whole thing away and he needs to come up with something special against Michigan State, or his season will start 1-2 already. Football changes every season, yet we cannot come up with new things or adjust at all.

That wont change the future outlook to me already. The board apparently, as discussed here a few days ago, wants a coach who ensures that the football program makes profit, gets ranked and wins nine games on average. We are far, far, FAR away from that happening. It would be a revelation at this point if we started to play football like the assignment that its supposed to be. We play Gurvan Hall on Slot WRs and let him get burned because he cant do it, the D-Line is just doing whatever the **** they want, leaving the linebackers out for dry and they cant do anything in this defense, because they are literally left alone, only for the safeties to come downhill and try to clean the mess up. Every play-action pass includes a busted coverage, they had three TD worthy plays within like 10 minutes of game time, where PA happened, and receivers were buttnaked. CB dont play press at the line of scrimmage, receivers have free releases and no delays in their route. And I dont even want to talk about the zone defense this team plays... its awful. Guys are just standing in spots, not knowing where to go.

I dont have any hopes in Manny anymore. The danger of this season becoming a massive failure is as big as it has been. And if that happens, you can basically can it, because I have no faith in the board making two new hires (HC and AD). They rather sit it out to protect their precious money.

I will finish this thread with an observation: Camera pointed to Miamis sidelines more than once and I saw the same issue that I saw against Alabama: Nobody is getting coached up during the game. Thats a first in football for me and we should immediately stop with that. Its pathetic.
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Apps problem wasn't Chase Brice. The ball he threw to Pearson that should've been a touchdown was thrown short because Miami sent an all out blitz. The throw he "missed" to the tight end in the endzone was thrown over his head because Miami's safety was in the throwing lane. If he throws it low, as the announcer suggested he should do, it's an interception.

The difference in the game came down to depth. App's starting ILB was about to drop from exhaustion, yet he kept going.

Fun fact, you guys aren't as bad as you think you are. I tried telling you what would happen, based on what I saw in a few of Miami's 2020 games including the game against Louisville, who runs the same exact scheme as App on offense and defense. No one listened.

I gave you all very sound betting advice and people laughed. I could've made you all a lot of money if you would've listened. So now I laugh at the ones who laughed at me, and the ones who slapped money down on Miami to cover 10 points. Miami is lucky they didn't lose by 10, considering the difference in score was a safety, or Apps missed two point conversion, and a short field touchdown.

Give credit where credit is due. Come on, I know you guys can do it.

Go win the ACC now to make this loss look better for us please. I told that to ECU fans after our game; no matter the result, bust *** the rest of the year to help us all out. App wins out, Miami's win over us all of the sudden looks a lot better. Miami wins out, and App wins out, this loss looks a lot better.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Want my betting advice for this week? Take Miami on the over. According to Michigan State fans, Miami was looking ahead because App is obviously still FCS and doesn't play in a division that finished rated higher than the Pac-12 North last year.

Miami is going to win big (Lee Corso voice).
 
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RoboCane said:
Watching the taint game yesterday, they were talking about Cristobal saying under Jimmy Johnson, practices were always harder than the games. Manny is too concerned about being their friend and not their coach.

Another season slip sliding away!
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Troll alert
 
Hogan said:
Usually I am not known here for being the negative Nancy, I actually defended Manny, Lashlee and King for quite some time, but I´ve had it. I will split this up in certain areas and go from there.

1. We got very lucky.

There are several reasons as to why I make that statement:

- Chase Brice was their QB.
- Their head coach refused to let Peoples run the ball for some very odd reason that I have not figured out.
- They didnt stick to what they do well and executed horribly in key situations (again, because of Brice)

If App State turns up with a somewhat decent QB who does not misfire everything high, they win this game easily. Brice made some throws that made me question why no one else can play QB for them.

2. We still got outcoached.

Even with App State making mistakes, especially regarding their offensive personnel, they were much more prepared and played far better fundamentally sound football for four quarters. Based on the personnel they have and the talent they have, especially athletically, this should not have been a matchup highly favored for them. We have more speed, we are bigger and we had more talent at many positions. However, this coaching staff remains confident in a defensive scheme that is just utterly **** and there is an obvious disconnect between Lashlee and King at this point. But I will get into that one later.

App State went out in their 3-3-5, usually had three down lineman with one attacking the center, and let the linebackers fly around and make plays. They looked prepared and knew what the **** was up on every play. We didnt. We still do not know how to consistenly run the ball against Tite, we still run the same old Inside Zone play and it mind blows my mind how we still cannot run even a **** counter. A ******* counter is all I am asking for, try to get your speed on the perimeter... nope. No chance. You let an undersized D-Line dominate you with fundamentals on the inside and you run slow developing option plays with a QB who simply cannot execute it.

3. Kings spot might be in danger sooner than we think.

Which automatically leads me to this point. There is an obvious disconnect between King and Lashlee and the probable reason is that King cannot execute anything that Lashlee asks of him once an option play comes into it. The most dominant offensive strategy in college football is the RPO due to offensive lineman being allowed to whatever they want to do. Miami cant run it, because the QB either cant read the keys or reads it incorrectly. The amount of times where King hands off instead of tucking it and running freely and vice versa is so high, I have to question whether TVD cant execute it either. Its not his type of offense; the most success King had as a QB was when he played in Houston and had the keys to a Run and Shoot offense led by Kendall Briles. When Deriq King transferred away from Houston, it was due to poor offensive performances under Dana Holgorson, who is an Air Raid disciple. Lashlee ran a lot of Air Raid at SMU and we all saw how the offense throwing wise can be executed against Oklahoma State last season. Looking back at it, I was baffled to see how well Perry played while having 6 and 8 as his outside receivers against a good defensive unit.

There was one play at the end of the game, Deriq King took the snap and faced a three man rush. Not even a heavy one, App State just played coverage basically. King went through his reads while having no pressure and after three seconds suddenly decided to scramble right and hit Rambo on a two yard completion. I can guarantee to all of you, neither TVD or Garcia do that. They sit back and wait for someone to run free.

I get that there is a lot of criticism regarding Lashlee and I am the first one to agree with it. He currently playcalls a scared game because he is not trusting his QB. However, he is also not tailoring his offense to the personnel available and is not helping them out, whether thats run or pass. The analyst from the broadcast actually put it very well, they need to get KIng into a rhythm with simple throws. That didnt happen all game.

4. The fundamentals from this football team are the worst that I have seen from a football team.

With all due respect, everything this team teaches about fundamentals should be torn apart and lit on fire. Or, as Kevin Garnett once said to Craig Sager: "I dont care where you got this suit from. You take this and you burn it. So when you get done with this you should be buttass-naked." This team needs to be coached up from the ground up. Leverage, hand placement, leg drive, everything. Nobody makes an effort to ensure that the guy in better position can make a play. Everyone is fighting for themselves. I have never seen that. There is no set up, no disguise, nothing. Tackling is insanely bad, App State tackled miles better compared to what we do. The missed tackles App State had could be counted on one hand. Their defense is set up for the D-Line to do the dirty work and hold gaps, while linebackers and box safeties fly around and make plays.

And if we are at it with fundamentals: Penalties. Holy ****, this team does not learn. You got a TD on a big 4th down and it gets called back for an illegal formation. Thats ******* junior league. At least nobody got hit with a targeting, although Bolden almost took Tyrique out.

5. Manny Diaz is over his head. He wont make it.

When Manny made the defense his job in the offseason, I actually had somewhat high hopes. They have been squashed within two games. The scheme is the exact same as we always run, we substitute way too much, we are overreliant on sending the house because we do not have a coverage scheme that is, you know, good and even if we send the house, the QB throws in the flat or on a quick slant and its butt naked. Running a 4-2-5 these days is already not that smart, considering more and more top teams make the switch to stack defenses, three man fronts, whilst putting more and more speed on the field. We have been figured out years ago and still have not made any changes whatsoever. Players are frustrated and it really showed yesterday. Manny needs to throw his whole thing away and he needs to come up with something special against Michigan State, or his season will start 1-2 already. Football changes every season, yet we cannot come up with new things or adjust at all.

That wont change the future outlook to me already. The board apparently, as discussed here a few days ago, wants a coach who ensures that the football program makes profit, gets ranked and wins nine games on average. We are far, far, FAR away from that happening. It would be a revelation at this point if we started to play football like the assignment that its supposed to be. We play Gurvan Hall on Slot WRs and let him get burned because he cant do it, the D-Line is just doing whatever the **** they want, leaving the linebackers out for dry and they cant do anything in this defense, because they are literally left alone, only for the safeties to come downhill and try to clean the mess up. Every play-action pass includes a busted coverage, they had three TD worthy plays within like 10 minutes of game time, where PA happened, and receivers were buttnaked. CB dont play press at the line of scrimmage, receivers have free releases and no delays in their route. And I dont even want to talk about the zone defense this team plays... its awful. Guys are just standing in spots, not knowing where to go.

I dont have any hopes in Manny anymore. The danger of this season becoming a massive failure is as big as it has been. And if that happens, you can basically can it, because I have no faith in the board making two new hires (HC and AD). They rather sit it out to protect their precious money.

I will finish this thread with an observation: Camera pointed to Miamis sidelines more than once and I saw the same issue that I saw against Alabama: Nobody is getting coached up during the game. Thats a first in football for me and we should immediately stop with that. Its pathetic.
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agree with points 1, 2, 4, and 5, King is safe I think they need to play to his strengths, the kid has thrown quite a few touchdowns in his career, plus he is playing that wreck of an offensive line we have
 
Cribby said:
If guys don’t fall down going in for scores , drop first down catches and their qb can hit wide open guys we lose. That was a very lucky win for manny , that’s why he looked like he just got caught banging his secretary by the wife after the game. His coaching life flashed in front of him.
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they gave it to us.
 
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