My rant...

[CanesAreAble]

It's not about scheme. The philosophy right now seems to be "we'll make less mistakes and await mistakes from our opponents." FWIW, I think that's about the best approach for yesterday. My question is about this philosophy going forward and in future big games.

Once we reach our desired talent level:

1. Will the philosophy work?
2. Will the philosophy stay in place?


I think the answer to both is "yes". Golden has said multiple times that you win games by eliminating the things that cause you to lose. He wants a smart team that plays a "clean" game mentally. The thing is elite talent (with physical and mental maturity) makes any philosophy look great. It's a lot easier to sit back when a DT can break through the interior line and get a hurry, or a LB can break on a ball and take it to the house, or a Safety comes from the other side of the field and gets a deflection after the CB bit on something underneath.

I think elite players can make disruptive plays independent of scheme and philosophy.

 

[Coach Macho]

I don't care what JAGS we run out there on defense. No excuses for guys running wide open all game long.

That's not even true. Winston had to check down several times. When you have inferior talent, you can't take EVERYTHING away.

When he checked down it was always for an easy 8+ yards cause nobody on defense accounted for the check-down.

One time we dropped 8 into coverage and rushed 3. Shayon Green and Tyrone Cornelius were covering the same hook-to-curl zone. Shayon should've seen the RB flare out of the backfield and picked him up but instead he sat there and allowed him to catch the ball with a full head of steam. The reason I can't blame this on Green is because we do it ALL THE TIME. It's like we're being told to let them catch it in front of us and then tackle them. Well ****, the dude has 8 yards by then!

I obviously haven't broken down the coach's tape of every game, but we remember the blown assignments, especially in the big games. What about when plays are run properly? In the clip that you posted, we picked up Freeman out of the backfield on that play.

Maybe Shayon simply screwed up. I honestly don't know. I'm just not nearly as concerned about schematic issues. I'm more concerned with the talent. The defense will look better when guys like AQM are able to play every down.

On the play I posted we picked up Freeman cause we were playing man coverage. My problem is with the zone coverage and our zone principles.

 

[Coach Macho]

This is the kind of schematic ****ery I'm talking about. (1:46)



3rd and 5. Our DE up top crashes inside, leaving us without an edge rusher to Winston's right. Winston scrambles right for an easy 1st down. Now, if I hadn't seen this already during D'Onofrio's tenure then I would just chalk it up on the players, however I've seen it a million times. This is completely UN-SOUND.

Also notice how Luther Robinson is dropping into a zone and standing right next to Cornelius. They're both covering the same patch of grass together. LOL.

Looks like McCorrd just freelanced to me. I'm sure Coach D's scheme calls for Robinson and Cornelius to cover the same zone. You're a ******* broken record.

And you're a blind idiot.

Yeah, McCord just freelanced and ran right into the interior of the O-line.

That's exactly what a freelancing DE would do. LOL. Why would he freelance to the outside when he can freelance straight into a ******' Tackle and Guard.

McCord: "Man **** the play-call and **** rushing the edge. I'm gonna crash right into this 350lb O-lineman."

The fact of the matter is......you don't have a ******* clue what the "call" was or what the players responsibilities were, so quit acting like you do. I'll say it again, I would bet my left nut that we are "schematically" sound. Are the players blowing to many assignments....I'll sign on to that.

Golden was raised by some of the best defensive minds in the history of the game.......yeah, call me a homer if I trust his judgment over some slap **** ex-highschool D-line coach.

Then you'd be a one-nut wonder cause the fact that we even spot-drop tells me everything I need to know about how un-sound we are. There's nothing sound about spot-dropping. (like you ******' know what I'm talking about anyway)

Typical message board *****, resort to insults instead of substance. I could be ******' 10 years removed from coaching and I would still have more football knowledge than you, which is exactly why you're not even on my wave length right now and can't comprehend my concerns. "Ex-highschool D-line coach" cause I took one year off from coaching. SMH. That's an irrelevant point anyways cause it doesn't take away from the fact that I still know WTF I'm talking about.

 

[Coach Macho]

It's not about scheme. The philosophy right now seems to be "we'll make less mistakes and await mistakes from our opponents." FWIW, I think that's about the best approach for yesterday. My question is about this philosophy going forward and in future big games.

Once we reach our desired talent level:

1. Will the philosophy work?
2. Will the philosophy stay in place?


I think the answer to both is "yes". Golden has said multiple times that you win games by eliminating the things that cause you to lose. He wants a smart team that plays a "clean" game mentally. The thing is elite talent (with physical and mental maturity) makes any philosophy look great. It's a lot easier to sit back when a DT can break through the interior line and get a hurry, or a LB can break on a ball and take it to the house, or a Safety comes from the other side of the field and gets a deflection after the CB bit on something underneath.

I think elite players can make disruptive plays independent of scheme and philosophy.

We're not getting picked apart intermediately because of talent!

That's what I keep saying that some of yall are not getting.

 

[LuCane]

It's not about scheme. The philosophy right now seems to be "we'll make less mistakes and await mistakes from our opponents." FWIW, I think that's about the best approach for yesterday. My question is about this philosophy going forward and in future big games.

Once we reach our desired talent level:

1. Will the philosophy work?
2. Will the philosophy stay in place?


I think the answer to both is "yes". Golden has said multiple times that you win games by eliminating the things that cause you to lose. He wants a smart team that plays a "clean" game mentally. The thing is elite talent (with physical and mental maturity) makes any philosophy look great. It's a lot easier to sit back when a DT can break through the interior line and get a hurry, or a LB can break on a ball and take it to the house, or a Safety comes from the other side of the field and gets a deflection after the CB bit on something underneath.

I think elite players can make disruptive plays independent of scheme and philosophy.

Elite talent could be made to look better or worse depending on what they're asked to do. Basically, you're saying we have to wait to have disruptive DL, and a lot of them. I guess we'll wait and see.

I'm of the opinion that we're battling to the last couple series of yesterday's game if we have an "elite" decision maker (not necessarily prospect or athlete) playing QB. Game might have been 41-31 or the like.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

This is the kind of schematic ****ery I'm talking about. (1:46)



3rd and 5. Our DE up top crashes inside, leaving us without an edge rusher to Winston's right. Winston scrambles right for an easy 1st down. Now, if I hadn't seen this already during D'Onofrio's tenure then I would just chalk it up on the players, however I've seen it a million times. This is completely UN-SOUND.

Also notice how Luther Robinson is dropping into a zone and standing right next to Cornelius. They're both covering the same patch of grass together. LOL.

Looks like McCorrd just freelanced to me. I'm sure Coach D's scheme calls for Robinson and Cornelius to cover the same zone. You're a ******* broken record.

And you're a blind idiot.

Yeah, McCord just freelanced and ran right into the interior of the O-line.

That's exactly what a freelancing DE would do. LOL. Why would he freelance to the outside when he can freelance straight into a ******' Tackle and Guard.

McCord: "Man **** the play-call and **** rushing the edge. I'm gonna crash right into this 350lb O-lineman."

The fact of the matter is......you don't have a ******* clue what the "call" was or what the players responsibilities were, so quit acting like you do. I'll say it again, I would bet my left nut that we are "schematically" sound. Are the players blowing to many assignments....I'll sign on to that.

Golden was raised by some of the best defensive minds in the history of the game.......yeah, call me a homer if I trust his judgment over some slap **** ex-highschool D-line coach.

Then you'd be a one-nut wonder cause the fact that we even spot-drop tells me everything I need to know about how un-sound we are. There's nothing sound about spot-dropping. (like you ******' know what I'm talking about anyway)

Typical message board *****, resort to insults instead of substance. I could be ******' 10 years removed from coaching and I would still have more football knowledge than you, which is exactly why you're not even on my wave length right now and can't comprehend my concerns. "Ex-highschool D-line coach" cause I took one year off from coaching. SMH. That's an irrelevant point anyways cause it doesn't take away from the fact that I still know WTF I'm talking about.

Who said I didn't know what a spot drop is?

 

[Daperfectstorm]

I'm with Lu & Wildcat. Who else in college football plays with this schemes/philosophy & how good or bad are those teams? I cann't understand how Golden is a defensive minded coach but continues to put out these awful performances. Yes talent can be attributed to sum of the poor performances but imo we get out coached too many times. During the week Lu broke down how he would attack UM if he was FSU. As i'm watching the game it's like i'm reading the thread right in front of me lol. Listening to D. Starks on WQAM last night he said good coaches recoqnize tendencies of other teams and the exploits them. This is what I think everyone seen last night from FSU they dictated what we could do. The loss is very upsetting but the bend & break just isn't UM ball PERIOD. Finally, when blitzed & got burnt by the screen I wasn't upset at least it was an attempt of aggression I'd rather die on my feet than on my knees.

 

[supacane]

It's not about scheme. The philosophy right now seems to be "we'll make less mistakes and await mistakes from our opponents." FWIW, I think that's about the best approach for yesterday. My question is about this philosophy going forward and in future big games.

Once we reach our desired talent level:

1. Will the philosophy work?
2. Will the philosophy stay in place?


I think the answer to both is "yes". Golden has said multiple times that you win games by eliminating the things that cause you to lose. He wants a smart team that plays a "clean" game mentally. The thing is elite talent (with physical and mental maturity) makes any philosophy look great. It's a lot easier to sit back when a DT can break through the interior line and get a hurry, or a LB can break on a ball and take it to the house, or a Safety comes from the other side of the field and gets a deflection after the CB bit on something underneath.

I think elite players can make disruptive plays independent of scheme and philosophy.

Elite talent could be made to look better or worse depending on what they're asked to do. Basically, you're saying we have to wait to have disruptive DL, and a lot of them. I guess we'll wait and see.

I'm of the opinion that we're battling to the last couple series of yesterday's game if we have an "elite" decision maker (not necessarily prospect or athlete) playing QB. Game might have been 41-31 or the like.

Thats my point as well. What these people fail to point out, is how hard we have to fight to be the likes of WF.....who got shut out by Syracuse and UNC. Are they more talented than we are. Even with just Randy players you cant convince me of that. Doesn't it concern anyone that we went into the GT game and for a whole qtr, no one on defense knew what GT was doing? Didn't t concern anyone that we had no answer as how to pressure WF QB when they went to the wide splits. Is that talent?

 

[CanesAreAble]

It's not about scheme. The philosophy right now seems to be "we'll make less mistakes and await mistakes from our opponents." FWIW, I think that's about the best approach for yesterday. My question is about this philosophy going forward and in future big games.

Once we reach our desired talent level:

1. Will the philosophy work?
2. Will the philosophy stay in place?


I think the answer to both is "yes". Golden has said multiple times that you win games by eliminating the things that cause you to lose. He wants a smart team that plays a "clean" game mentally. The thing is elite talent (with physical and mental maturity) makes any philosophy look great. It's a lot easier to sit back when a DT can break through the interior line and get a hurry, or a LB can break on a ball and take it to the house, or a Safety comes from the other side of the field and gets a deflection after the CB bit on something underneath.

I think elite players can make disruptive plays independent of scheme and philosophy.

Elite talent could be made to look better or worse depending on what they're asked to do. Basically, you're saying we have to wait to have disruptive DL, and a lot of them. I guess we'll wait and see.

I'm of the opinion that we're battling to the last couple series of yesterday's game if we have an "elite" decision maker (not necessarily prospect or athlete) playing QB. Game might have been 41-31 or the like.

I agree 100% with that.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Thats my point as well. What these people fail to point out, is how hard we have to fight to be the likes of WF.....who got shut out by Syracuse and UNC. Are they more talented than we are. Even with just Randy players you cant convince me of that. Doesn't it concern anyone that we went into the GT game and for a whole qtr, no one on defense knew what GT was doing? Didn't t concern anyone that we had no answer as how to pressure WF QB when they went to the wide splits. Is that talent?

The transitive property has proven to be bunk many, many times.

We didn't have schematic issues against Wake. We didn't execute, and weren't "up" for that game, which isn't surprising.

As for the wide splits, everything has a counter. You don't think Jim Grobe knows that A-B blitzes up the middle or D-linemen crashing inside isn't a possibility? However you choose to attack something, you have to EXECUTE.

As for Georgia Tech, our coaches have seen the triple options several times (and have success against it). Paul Johnson came out in a formation they hadn't seen before, and had some problems stopping it. And we didn't get an opportunity to draw it up because we scored in 2 plays, then turned the ball over twice in the next 3 plays. The defense settled in after the first quarter.

 

[sabrose]

Maybe it's finally time people realized (Duke's) a very good back, but not nearly as good as people here think he is.

This.

I've been saying it for a while. I love Duke, but he isn't an elite college football RB. Very very good, but not elite.

The utter nonsense that comes out of people's mouths after a loss is stunning .What an utterly ignorant statement.

 

[252cane]

It's coaches fellas. We have more talent than gt,wake and unc and they piled up yards too. Jethro is not a good coach or recruiter the d-line has no moves at all and it was the same when he was at usc. All wake does is throw the ball to 1 person and the d still gave up 300 yards passing. Wake was held to 7 by clemson and didn't score vs syracuse yesterday. The top defenses in the country has great coaches. Top recruits want to play for uf,fsu,auburn,bama,lsu defenses because their scheme and coaches and they are not begging to be a part of d'onofrio defense. THIS D IS NOT GOOD 1700 YARDS THE LAST 4 GAMES. Stanford and Va.tech does not have a d full of 4 and 5 stars and 1st round picks but have GREAT COACHES AND SCHEMES.

 

[CANESX6*]

Coach D blows and i will go with answer 3

 

[CanesAreAble]

We're not getting picked apart intermediately because of talent!

That's what I keep saying that some of yall are not getting.

I get it.

I just don't completely agree.

 

[supacane]

Thats my point as well. What these people fail to point out, is how hard we have to fight to be the likes of WF.....who got shut out by Syracuse and UNC. Are they more talented than we are. Even with just Randy players you cant convince me of that. Doesn't it concern anyone that we went into the GT game and for a whole qtr, no one on defense knew what GT was doing? Didn't t concern anyone that we had no answer as how to pressure WF QB when they went to the wide splits. Is that talent?

The transitive property has proven to be bunk many, many times.

We didn't have schematic issues against Wake. We didn't execute, and weren't "up" for that game, which isn't surprising.

As for the wide splits, everything has a counter. You don't think Jim Grobe knows that A-B blitzes up the middle or D-linemen crashing inside isn't a possibility? However you choose to attack something, you have to EXECUTE.

As for Georgia Tech, our coaches have seen the triple options several times (and have success against it). Paul Johnson came out in a formation they hadn't seen before, and had some problems stopping it. And we didn't get an opportunity to draw it up because we scored in 2 plays, then turned the ball over twice in the next 3 plays. The defense settled in after the first quarter.

It does matter. The way we struggled with those scrub teams was the reason we went into the FSU 3 TDS underdog even tho we were undefeated. And the spread was right....actually worst. Yeah Grobe knew we could blitz the A and B gaps.....Did we? No we let them do what they wanted all game. The same team who got shut out a week later. It does matter, because if Syracuse can shut them out so can we. IF BC can run on FSU, so can we. Do you sdee how NFL teams work? They see a team doing something that works, they quickly copy it and do it. So of all the things that worked against FSU, Dropping 8 in coverage wasn't one of them, yet still we continued with it and everytime it equalled a first down. And not only didnt it work against FSU, it works against no one....at all! But we continue with it. Lets wait 5 years, 6 years maybe. Maybe then we can have a average defense, Cuz this one is terrible. It has always been. Occasional good games and regularly getting gashed.

 

[LuCane]

We're not getting picked apart intermediately because of talent!

That's what I keep saying that some of yall are not getting.

I get it.

I just don't completely agree.

Not difficult to see where you two have a disagreement:

WildCat believes there are inherent flaws in running zone schemes where the players don't matchup.
Able believes that disruptive DL will shorten the time necessary to keep those players covering grass as a cohesive unit. Able believes we'll get those disruptive DL.

 

[CanesAreAble]

We're not getting picked apart intermediately because of talent!

That's what I keep saying that some of yall are not getting.

I get it.

I just don't completely agree.

Not difficult to see where you two have a disagreement:

WildCat believes there are inherent flaws in running zone schemes where the players don't matchup.
Able believes that disruptive DL will shorten the time necessary to keep those players covering grass as a cohesive unit. Able believes we'll get those disruptive DL.

That's part of it.

Honestly, it's hard to discuss some of this stuff because I don't know the thought process of the coaches, the responsibilities on plays, the tendencies of other teams, who screwed up, etc...

I find it hard to believe Golden and D'Onofrio are unfamiliar with pattern recognition. I haven't scrutinized the defensive X's & O's that much, but I don't think we're exclusively spot-dropping. Maybe we only do it in certain coverages. Maybe we were pattern-reading, and the players couldn't handle it (i.e. abundant coverage busts). I don't know.

I'd be interested to hear Golden and D'Onofrio answer that question. Too bad SMD, Beast, or Manny will NEVER ask such a question. Maybe we can get Joe Rose to do it.

 

[RiDLer80]

We're not getting picked apart intermediately because of talent!

That's what I keep saying that some of yall are not getting.

I get it.

I just don't completely agree.

Not difficult to see where you two have a disagreement:

WildCat believes there are inherent flaws in running zone schemes where the players don't matchup.
Able believes that disruptive DL will shorten the time necessary to keep those players covering grass as a cohesive unit. Able believes we'll get those disruptive DL.

But what if we don't have that kind of DL for another two years? Are we gonna have to sit though players running free in the middle of our defense and the flats being completely ignored and uncovered?

So do you (Able) have faith in D'ohno to be more innovative in his philosophy to make up for deficiencies in talent or will he remain stubborn in his ways and we'll have to deal with this until we have the horses that everybody says we need?

 

[Mico Jones]

We're not getting picked apart intermediately because of talent!

That's what I keep saying that some of yall are not getting.

I get it.

I just don't completely agree.

Not difficult to see where you two have a disagreement:

WildCat believes there are inherent flaws in running zone schemes where the players don't matchup.
Able believes that disruptive DL will shorten the time necessary to keep those players covering grass as a cohesive unit. Able believes we'll get those disruptive DL.

But what if we don't have that kind of DL for another two years? Are we gonna have to sit though players running free in the middle of our defense and the flats being completely ignored and uncovered?

So do you (Able) have faith in D'ohno to be more innovative in his philosophy to make up for deficiencies in talent or will he remain stubborn in his ways and we'll have to deal with this until we have the horses that everybody says we need?

Do you remember former Dolphins D coordinator Tom Olivadotti???

 

[252cane]

We ain't gettin to much of **** with jethro and d'onofrio. We have 1 good dt prospect valentine and hurlie bust his *** to get him. Fsu brings in 3-4 4/5 star dt every year including 3 so far. Dt are lining up to play for uf,bama,lsu,auburn,fsu and AS BAD AS WEE NEED THEM WE STRUGGLE TO GET JUST 1. JETHRO COULDN'T COACH OR RECRUIT AT USC THAT'S WHY THEY FIRED HIM, AND D'ONOFRIO DOESN'T EVEN RECRUIT.