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mdpcane said:
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Great post and great video @Dwinstitles, thanks for taking the time to do it.

Alot of good nuggets in there for sure, and you hit it right on the head when you talk about stacking 5* recruits. That's what the big boys are doing.
Agree 100% with that. If we're going to ever be a playoff team, and stay there consistently, we need to add at least three or four legit 5* players each class.
 
this man is always on point!

On your point about Jobe and wishing him well.... I agree for most guys that go elsewhere, however this guy was all Cane until Saban offered hi him the $$$. How do you play against your boys and look at them with a straight face after selling them out and getting paid. Thats BS. Hope he sucks ***.... loser.
 
Rellyrell said:
@Dwinstitles

Agree w/ everything u said, except ur opening statement.

I don’t think anyone is giving enough credit to something that continued to be emphasized by the broadcasting crew for the game; Culture.

If you have Diaz as coach over the collection of talent Bama has w/ those guys coming from the culture that Saban built, absolutely he wins. But if U’re saying Diaz wins w/ Bama’s players w/ no culture established? Iunno, champ. Your example of Coker is half truth; Coker took over an already established culture w/ Butch’s players. If anything, as Coker continued, we started to recruit on an elite level.
Class of ‘02 - #5 in the nation
Class of ‘03 - #4 in the nation
Class of ‘04 - #3 in the nation

You know what those classes had to show under Coker? Nothing. Why? B/c the culture was completely broken. So once Butch players left, the erosion began, despite being a top 5 “talented” team in the nation, and eventually, our top 5 class ranking started to dip to the top 10, to out of the top 10 w/ regularity.

Like I’ve said many of times, u can have the finest ingredients at a chef’s disposal, but if that **** can’t cook or use those ingredients in harmony, the dish is going to be garbage.
We complain about Pope now, but had a hissy fit when he was rumored to go to Bama.
We complain about Scaife now, but were jumping for joy when the #5 rated OG in the nation signed here.

How often r we going to bash every single 4 & 5 star player that walk through those doors of The Hecht, before we realize the culture is the problem? From a 1st yr HC in Shannon given zero support, to a Wefense failed G5 coach, to a “secret playbook” that-a-boy semi retired HC, to a lisp & slide 1st yr HC. Come on D. Lol.

The WR Metchie, that was high stepping on us? Yeah, he was the #40 ranked WR in his class, bro. I mean, we’ve had a slew of top 10-15 WRs in their class not do what we saw Metchie do. How? It’s not just evaluations (although that’s been poor), it’s our culture Bro. I think I heard u say players were playing video games afterwards, or to that effect…bro, that’s what I mean. Participation trophies after a L, jumping up & down throwing water on each other after squeaking pass CMU, giving out the T.O chain when down by a Lord’s Prayer… bro, we could have every 5 star listed, and I promise u, we would still be an 8-9 win team. Coaching, culture, scheme…all suck ***.
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U forgot Manuel’s slip and slide after that pathetic W against Virginia!
 
klineski96 said:
Great post and great video @Dwinstitles, thanks for taking the time to do it.

Alot of good nuggets in there for sure, and you hit it right on the head when you talk about stacking 5* recruits. That's what the big boys are doing.
Agree 100% with that. If we're going to ever be a playoff team, and stay there consistently, we need to add at least three or four legit 5* players each class.
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Programs are built on coaches who bring in the best players. That's what all those elites have in common....then by year 3-4 the coaches are getting the credit for x and O's when the basis of the team was built on studs. Play calling I consider the roof of the house while the players are the clay the foundation. U take away the roof u will get wet but u can live there...u take away the clay u can't live there it falls apart. U have great x and O's (the roof) u still can't have a house cause there isn't any players to support the house.

I mean that's a quick bs example I came up with lol.
 
Rellyrell said:
@Dwinstitles

Agree w/ everything u said, except ur opening statement.

I don’t think anyone is giving enough credit to something that continued to be emphasized by the broadcasting crew for the game; Culture.

If you have Diaz as coach over the collection of talent Bama has w/ those guys coming from the culture that Saban built, absolutely he wins. But if U’re saying Diaz wins w/ Bama’s players w/ no culture established? Iunno, champ. Your example of Coker is half truth; Coker took over an already established culture w/ Butch’s players. If anything, as Coker continued, we started to recruit on an elite level.
Class of ‘02 - #5 in the nation
Class of ‘03 - #4 in the nation
Class of ‘04 - #3 in the nation

You know what those classes had to show under Coker? Nothing. Why? B/c the culture was completely broken. So once Butch players left, the erosion began, despite being a top 5 “talented” team in the nation, and eventually, our top 5 class ranking started to dip to the top 10, to out of the top 10 w/ regularity.

Like I’ve said many of times, u can have the finest ingredients at a chef’s disposal, but if that **** can’t cook or use those ingredients in harmony, the dish is going to be garbage.
We complain about Pope now, but had a hissy fit when he was rumored to go to Bama.
We complain about Scaife now, but were jumping for joy when the #5 rated OG in the nation signed here.

How often r we going to bash every single 4 & 5 star player that walk through those doors of The Hecht, before we realize the culture is the problem? From a 1st yr HC in Shannon given zero support, to a Wefense failed G5 coach, to a “secret playbook” that-a-boy semi retired HC, to a lisp & slide 1st yr HC. Come on D. Lol.

The WR Metchie, that was high stepping on us? Yeah, he was the #40 ranked WR in his class, bro. I mean, we’ve had a slew of top 10-15 WRs in their class not do what we saw Metchie do. How? It’s not just evaluations (although that’s been poor), it’s our culture Bro. I think I heard u say players were playing video games afterwards, or to that effect…bro, that’s what I mean. Participation trophies after a L, jumping up & down throwing water on each other after squeaking pass CMU, giving out the T.O chain when down by a Lord’s Prayer… bro, we could have every 5 star listed, and I promise u, we would still be an 8-9 win team. Coaching, culture, scheme…all suck ***.
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Bad evals, and its also clear that a bunch of the highly rated kids we do want end up coming here because they are soft. At this point when we hear about some highly rated kid coming here, there is a very good chance that they just dont care and love the party atmosphere and no accountability of what Miami has become. Im not saying that is every kid, but even back in 08, we saw a class that was mega talented give their all against an elite elite Gator team and after that they just all fell off, pretty much all of them. As kinda alluded, Pope has all the tools to be a very very good WR. His problem is that he is soft, and he fit in well here. He would have gotten eaten up at Bama. Bad evals, lacksadalsicle culture and poor development is our formula. I believe that kids like LT and James Williams are exceptions but lets see how they develop. The thing is that Manny is trying, you can tell he is trying. He is genuinely trying to fix all his mistakes, but it's so obvious he is in over his head. He doesnt have the DNA of HC, he is too nice, on top of not being some defensive savant.
 
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Dwinstitles said:
@Rellyrell either your right or I'm right but where we disagree is the rankings from that time. Either these services have learned better or they are just going off bama OSU and clemsons evals. What year did the services start hitting? Off the top of my head my guess would be 09-11ish?
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Honestly; I think the rankings were accurate then. It was just us, bro.

2003, USC had the #2 class w/ Bush, White, Khalil, Rucker, etc. Those guys won 2 Nat’l titles (Coach Carroll)

By contrast: UF had the #1 class that same yr & #5 class in 2004. The 1st two yrs those classes went 15-10 (Coach Ron Zook). Then what would U know? Immediately in 2005 when this same “bust of a class” became Jr’s & Sr’s under Urban Meyers, they went 22-4 becoming National Champions.

My point? Coaching matters more than anything in CFB. It doesn’t matter the talent, chief. If the coaching ain’t chit, if the program ain’t chit, if the culture ain’t chit, ur team & morale ain’t going to be chit, despite the talent. Hence it’s why we’re so caught up on “It’s the players, or we don’t have talent.”

I bet my bottom, bottom dollar that if Hugh Freeze was our HC, we motor boat through the ACC w/ this roster, giving Clemson all they could handle, even possibly “upsetting” them.
 
Rellyrell said:
Honestly; I think the rankings were accurate then. It was just us, bro.

2003, USC had the #2 class w/ Bush, White, Khalil, Rucker, etc. Those guys won 2 Nat’l titles (Coach Carroll)

By contrast: UF had the #1 class that same yr & #5 class in 2004. The 1st two yrs those classes went 15-10 (Coach Ron Zook). Then what would U know? Immediately in 2005 when this same “bust of a class” became Jr’s & Sr’s under Urban Meyers, they went 22-4 becoming National Champions.

My point? Coaching matters more than anything in CFB. It doesn’t matter the talent, chief. If the coaching ain’t chit, if the program ain’t chit, if the culture ain’t chit, ur team & morale ain’t going to be chit, despite the talent. Hence it’s why we’re so caught up on “It’s the players, or we don’t have talent.”

I bet my bottom, bottom dollar that if Hugh Freeze was our HC, we motor boat through the ACC w/ this roster, giving Clemson all they could handle, even possibly “upsetting” them.
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You could be right but who's holding the head coaches back? I mean I want to blame Manny but it smells like something is toxic with the program walls. Someone's holding this thing back man.

Also I was thinking if the rating are more correct now all the services have to do is give stars based on what schools are interested. Who the **** knows man it's a tough one to answer. I'm stuck with my view on it and it's coo to see another perspective and I'm not trying to change your mind u still my dude.
 
Dwinstitles said:
You could be right but who's holding the head coaches back? I mean I want to blame Manny but it smells like something is toxic with the program walls. Someone's holding this thing back man.

Also I was thinking if the rating are more correct now all the services have to do is give stars based on what schools are interested. Who the **** knows man it's a tough one to answer. I'm stuck with my view on it and it's coo to see another perspective and I'm not trying to change your mind u still my dude.
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The toxicity is hiring someone like Manny. Manny is just the symptom of the disease. I cant blame Manny for taking a job he was under qualified for...
 
Rellyrell said:
Honestly; I think the rankings were accurate then. It was just us, bro.

2003, USC had the #2 class w/ Bush, White, Khalil, Rucker, etc. Those guys won 2 Nat’l titles (Coach Carroll)

By contrast: UF had the #1 class that same yr & #5 class in 2004. The 1st two yrs those classes went 15-10 (Coach Ron Zook). Then what would U know? Immediately in 2005 when this same “bust of a class” became Jr’s & Sr’s under Urban Meyers, they went 22-4 becoming National Champions.

My point? Coaching matters more than anything in CFB. It doesn’t matter the talent, chief. If the coaching ain’t chit, if the program ain’t chit, if the culture ain’t chit, ur team & morale ain’t going to be chit, despite the talent. Hence it’s why we’re so caught up on “It’s the players, or we don’t have talent.”

I bet my bottom, bottom dollar that if Hugh Freeze was our HC, we motor boat through the ACC w/ this roster, giving Clemson all they could handle, even possibly “upsetting” them.
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I agree with this. If Saban comes over to Miami with this roster, he's likely building out a really good program by year 3. Saban doesn't let you get away with ****. Meanwhile, Manny has established a culture of complacency and entitlement as we've seen in his time at Miami (both as a HC and DC). I agree with D to an extent, yes, you need talent in CFB. Saban's not winning titles with a roster of 3 stars. Having said that, you could hand Manny Diaz Bama or Ohio State's roster, and I guarantee he finds a way to lose a game or two that you would have no business losing. I'd also see that Coker slide we saw in the early 2000's where we still get top 5 classes, then we see little-to-no development.
 
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orange&green84 said:
I agree with this. If Saban comes over to Miami with this roster, he's likely building out a really good program by year 3. Saban doesn't let you get away with ****. Meanwhile, Manny has established a culture of complacency and entitlement as we've seen in his time at Miami (both as a HC and DC). I agree with D to an extent, yes, you need talent in CFB. Saban's not winning titles with a roster of 3 stars. Having said that, you could hand Manny Diaz Bama or Ohio State's roster, and I guarantee he finds a way to lose a game or two that you would have no business losing. I'd also see that Coker slide we saw in the early 2000's where we still get top 5 classes, then we see little-to-no development.
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If Saban coached at UM we would 4 peat easily
 
Dwinstitles said:
You could be right but who's holding the head coaches back? I mean I want to blame Manny but it smells like something is toxic with the program walls. Someone's holding this thing back man.

Also I was thinking if the rating are more correct now all the services have to do is give stars based on what schools are interested. Who the **** knows man it's a tough one to answer. I'm stuck with my view on it and it's coo to see another perspective and I'm not trying to change your mind u still my dude.
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Like my guy @bobbydigius alias Bobby Digital replied, the toxicity is from the admin. It has chit to do w/ financial constraints, and everything to do w/ **** poor decisions, including hiring a glorified ticket collector w/ no previous AD experience (wait, I’m lying
; he was an AD over the University of Maine Black Bears, a chit show of a FCS program that had Zero success while Blake was there). Then appt a Deputy AD to serve underneath him w/ no experience.

So my ire is not w/ Manny; like many have said, Manny is a symptom. Miami have talent, been had talent, definitely enough to smoke The Coastal.

To put it like this my boy; if ur playing Madden and play against someone w/ the ‘07 Patriots & u have the ‘17 Browns, but they absolutely suck at playing Madden, U’re going to murder them. We’ve had a lot of sucky Madden players. Lol.
 
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