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Most of the hot takes about our offense are wrong

MiamiVice7 said:
Here’s what I don’t understand…

We (like many programs) apparently have a bunch of analysts and a coaching staff paid a bunch of money. They work day and night, chart everything, “self-scout.” Lots of jobs and money on the line. Not to mention ego, pride, competitiveness, all that. By all accounts, we have all that going on just like most programs of our stature.

Some of the criticism (not just from the us plebs on CIS, but also some ball knowers) is pretty straightforward stuff. Things that would seem obvious on a cursory review, let alone a deep dive of the type apparently conducted regularly within the program. We’re not talking about reinventing the wheel.

Instead it’s things like try not to be in the 100s in penalties every year. Throw in some tendency breakers. Use some variety (different run gaps, play action, **** even some wildcat if you want to get fancy). And hey, maybe implement these things as a matter of course and development. You know, before rather than after you lose because you failed to do it. Heck, maybe even take advantage of a bye week…or two. Let alone an offseason or spring.

In other words, be proactive. Anticipate. Play chess not checkers.

But it seems our answer is WORK HARDER and EXECUTE BETTER. That’s a pretty low-level analysis and strategy, no? We can do both of those things while also adapting and evolving. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

I get it if our HC is “built that way” or maybe his philosophy is meathead-ish. But there’s an entire program involved. And there’s historical data.

What’s the problem, really? It can’t be that everyone is dumb…can it? I just don’t get the same **** over and over.

Or maybe I’m a prisoner of the moment. Just overreacting.
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stubborn and meat head. dawsons been okay as an OC so far but he also is handcuffed in the run game. the run game is the same as ti was in oregon. hes given the scheme and he makes it work. when we had cam who would change the calls and the D couldnt bear down on the line bc of cam, it worked fine. when we have beck who teams are gonna want to see him beat them, its gonna look like FSU lville and sometimes it works (FSU) and sometimes it doesnt (Lville). reality is that beck isnt a good QB. he cant make the right reads and he doesnt have a big arm. the other thing is that beck cant read the RPO well. at this point, there is enough bad tape out there on beck to know he isnt getting drafted very high if at all. i expect somewhere in the 7th round like ewers. maybe that forces him to take the check downs more and force the D to cover underneath
 
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U_Canes said:
All the talk since our game has placed blame on Dawson and Mario and caveman football. Too predictable running every first down, conservative etc…


But let’s review the actual tape.

Drive 1: Drive started off passing. Play 2 was an unsportsmanlike penalty from Cici which killed the drive. Play 3 another pass and then punt

Drive 2: 1st down deep shot for 30 yards. Next 1st down, another deep shot for 39 and now we’re in a goal line situation where pound it in. But so far the only 1st down we’ve ran on was a 1st n goal.

Drive 3: Start backed inside our own 10. We run the ball for 6 on 1st down, but again another drive killed by an unsportsmanlike penalty. Try another run for minimal gain. Then on 2nd down Beck hits a pass for a 1st down at our 18. We pass again on 1st except this time Beck throws it to the Louisville. So this drive where we started inside our own 10 we did come out running, and would’ve been successful if it wasn’t for a dumb penalty. And then Beck giving it away.

Drive 4: Again starting inside our own 10. Again a drive where we started 1st down another penalty from Bell on a false start making it 1st n long. 1st down it’s a 14 yard pass from Beck followed by a 12 yard 2nd down run. We then run on first down for 0. Then again Beck threw the ball to the wrong team

Drive 5: Passed on 1st down. Then another penalty set us back. Passed again on 2nd for 61. Another first and goal. We run on 1st for nothing followed by 2 failed pass attempts.

But overall on our 10 first downs, we passed 60% of the time. And of the 4 times we ran it on 1st, 2 were first n goal inside their 10. And one was first down inside ours.

We only scored 10 points the 1st half. Because 2 of our 5 drives Beck made bad throws and because penalties kept killing our drives.

The 2nd half was even more lopsided in terms of throwing on 1st down.

Now I do have some questions about some our sets. Lville knew we wanted to throw screens out of those trip sets . And I do have some questions about what value our TEs are bringing. Lofton and Bauman play a lot of snaps, they had 2 catches for 18 yards. And unlike guys like Cam they don’t seem to particularly effective blockers.

Maybe time for more 4 man sets with Moore or Tony Johnson. But we’ve also seen multiple times Lofton or someone open on a check down and Beck not looking for it. Which is ultimately the issue. If we can’t stop the dumb penalties and Beck can’t make it through his progressions before forcing passes to CJ or Toney, we’re screwed.
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This is good. TY
 
Also the personnel used on run plays is a problem. Feel like it’s counterintuitive to use a back like Lyle constantly on dives.. if that’s what they mostly want to do in the running game, then they probably should be recruiting more players with CharMar brown’s skillset. Lyle would be better off in an offense where the run game is more open and allows him to utilize his skillset. The gameplan is making him look like trash, and he def isn’t.

I like the two back sets cause they disguise things a little, but then we run it into a scrum anyways haha…
 
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
1. Penalties. It's not the false starts, so much as the timing of them. eg. Samson. It's also the unsportsman calls....those are killers. I thought the one on Mali was beyond ridiculous. Players gotta know that we are The U and will always be put under a microscope with the refs.

2. Running game. Anyone on here old enough to remember the Joe Gibbs' Redskins teams of the 80's and 90's? They ran the counter trey over and over and over. As a former lineman, I thought it was glorious to see Joe Jacoby and Russ Grimm coming around the corner to pave the road for Riggins, George Rodgers, or Timmy stinkin Smith. I'm ok with some dives in the A gap, but why are we not mixing in plays like the counter trey? We ran ONE jet sweep and voila, TD. Then never ran it again. Don't want to pull the backsif G and T? Fine, how about a good old fashioned trap play into the B gap or C gap? Part of being a great team is adding wrinkles and new things to throw off the opponent's defense....you know, like Brohm did to us?
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I remember Csonka running right up the middle for over 200 yards over Butkis after Butkis ran his mouth all week
 
MiamiVice7 said:
Here’s what I don’t understand…

We (like many programs) apparently have a bunch of analysts and a coaching staff paid a bunch of money. They work day and night, chart everything, “self-scout.” Lots of jobs and money on the line. Not to mention ego, pride, competitiveness, all that. By all accounts, we have all that going on just like most programs of our stature.

Some of the criticism (not just from the us plebs on CIS, but also some ball knowers) is pretty straightforward stuff. Things that would seem obvious on a cursory review, let alone a deep dive of the type apparently conducted regularly within the program. We’re not talking about reinventing the wheel.

Instead it’s things like try not to be in the 100s in penalties every year. Throw in some tendency breakers. Use some variety (different run gaps, play action, **** even some wildcat if you want to get fancy). And hey, maybe implement these things as a matter of course and development. You know, before rather than after you lose because you failed to do it. Heck, maybe even take advantage of a bye week…or two. Let alone an offseason or spring.

In other words, be proactive. Anticipate. Play chess not checkers.

But it seems our answer is WORK HARDER and EXECUTE BETTER. That’s a pretty low-level analysis and strategy, no? We can do both of those things while also adapting and evolving. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

I get it if our HC is “built that way” or maybe his philosophy is meathead-ish. But there’s an entire program involved. And there’s historical data.

What’s the problem, really? It can’t be that everyone is dumb…can it? I just don’t get the same **** over and over.

Or maybe I’m a prisoner of the moment. Just overreacting.
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Little bit of both.

Remember, headed into last week, the narrative from EVERYONE...coaches, players, us, the national media, local media, is we pushed ND around on both lines. Then we pushed USF around, rudely. Then we pushed UiF around. Then, OK, we didn't run it great against FSU, but that's because they completely sold out to stop the run (which is true), and look what we did, Beck went nuts, threw 4 TDs in 3 quarters (should've been 5 if not for a really simple dumb penalty), our defense was great until the game was in hand, but we're 5-0 and have bullied everyone.

Then one game happens, and we've had 700 think-pieces all week about how clueless everyone is.

Just relax. Part of what you said is true, though. Just because we were winning doesn't mean it was being done in the most hyper-efficient way possible. The offense hasn't been great this year, overall. Again, even though we're 5-0, it was done mostly with defense and some spurts on offense, but nothing even close to what we saw last year.

It really is funny what simple winning and losing does to the macro and micro views of a team. And it should, at the end of the day, it's all that matters. But, we have the ball 1st and 10 on the Louisville 31. Let's just say the same play happens, but Beck and Lofton are on the same page, Lofton breaks the route off hot, makes a guy miss, and scores a TD, and we win 28-24. The mood here would be 99.8% different. Sure, some of us would be saying "****, we got lucky, the offense isn't great but maybe we try X, Y, Z, etc" And it'd be justified. But 31 **** yards, and it goes from that, to holy ******* christ this entire staff is clueless we'll never win **** what a bunch of pussies Mario can't coach for **** fire Dawson we just run the same play over and over etc etc.

The truth, as usual, lies in the middle. We need to be better, we should be doing some of what you're talking about (and I'd bet we are), but we also went from #1 on everyone's Top 25 list to losing a game by 3 points, to a 1-loss team, where we turned the ball over 4 times. Let's see if we can't execute going forward AND add a wrinkle or two.
 
The canesman said:
You can’t be throwing to Malachai whos 5 foot nothin when he’s in triple coverage. If Beck makes better decisions the O should be just fine.
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beck isnt known to make good decisions hence why he was forced out of UGA.

he did this last year. hes doing it again this year. some days **** look elite and other days **** be TVD.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Little bit of both.

Remember, headed into last week, the narrative from EVERYONE...coaches, players, us, the national media, local media, is we pushed ND around on both lines. Then we pushed USF around, rudely. Then we pushed UiF around. Then, OK, we didn't run it great against FSU, but that's because they completely sold out to stop the run (which is true), and look what we did, Beck went nuts, threw 4 TDs in 3 quarters (should've been 5 if not for a really simple dumb penalty), our defense was great until the game was in hand, but we're 5-0 and have bullied everyone.

Then one game happens, and we've had 700 think-pieces all week about how clueless everyone is.

Just relax. Part of what you said is true, though. Just because we were winning doesn't mean it was being done in the most hyper-efficient way possible. The offense hasn't been great this year, overall. Again, even though we're 5-0, it was done mostly with defense and some spurts on offense, but nothing even close to what we saw last year.

It really is funny what simple winning and losing does to the macro and micro views of a team. And it should, at the end of the day, it's all that matters. But, we have the ball 1st and 10 on the Louisville 31. Let's just say the same play happens, but Beck and Lofton are on the same page, Lofton breaks the route off hot, makes a guy miss, and scores a TD, and we win 28-24. The mood here would be 99.8% different. Sure, some of us would be saying "****, we got lucky, the offense isn't great but maybe we try X, Y, Z, etc" And it'd be justified. But 31 **** yards, and it goes from that, to holy ******* christ this entire staff is clueless we'll never win **** what a bunch of pussies Mario can't coach for **** fire Dawson we just run the same play over and over etc etc.

The truth, as usual, lies in the middle. We need to be better, we should be doing some of what you're talking about (and I'd bet we are), but we also went from #1 on everyone's Top 25 list to losing a game by 3 points, to a 1-loss team, where we turned the ball over 4 times. Let's see if we can't execute going forward AND add a wrinkle or two.
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we are below average in the run game. not even remotely close to below average in run effectiveness. its a trend since FSU and its out there. expect to see every team sell out to stop the run and force beck to beat them. sometimes **** be good and other times **** be 9 picks in 3 games beck. the season essentially hinges on him.
 
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hoops156 said:
we are below average in the run game. not even remotely close to below average in run effectiveness. its a trend since FSU and its out there. expect to see every team sell out to stop the run and force beck to beat them. sometimes **** be good and other times **** be 9 picks in 3 games beck. the season essentially hinges on him.
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It doesn’t have to completely. Take some pressure off the guy and *adjust*. What we’re doing isn’t working. The game was not a fluke, even FSU the mierda that they are were figuring it out.
 
hoops156 said:
we are below average in the run game. not even remotely close to below average in run effectiveness. its a trend since FSU and its out there. expect to see every team sell out to stop the run and force beck to beat them. sometimes **** be good and other times **** be 9 picks in 3 games beck. the season essentially hinges on him.
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I think it always did. Hard to win with ****** QB play. Did you see David Hale's tweets earlier this week with the correlation between QBR and win percentage? There's a lot of nuance in football, but sometimes, at the end of the day, it just comes down to how good your quarterback is.
 
Ryanmilli said:
Is this attempts or yards? “Choice %” suggests the former but your post says the latter.
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It is attempts. I have attached yards here.
 

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hoops156 said:
beck isnt known to make good decisions hence why he was forced out of UGA.

he did this last year. hes doing it again this year. some days **** look elite and other days **** be TVD.
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it's not that simple.

After listening to Lance on the podcast today, it seems that certain kinds of coverages are an issue for Beck. Now that there is film on a team who did it well against him, hopefully it will help him recognize where better decisions might be. Even with the confusion, there were check downs available. I'm sure he will take those next time...

No QB is perfect at everything.
 
caneworld said:
And you think all was hunky dory the past weeks?
This has been going on for weeks, a quarter per game , until last week it caught up to us enough to lose the game.
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Every week builds to something that can cause something that leads to something else.... Big freaking whoop... Football happens...
Get back on the horse and win the next game .. that how stuff gets fixed..
Or keep anticipating the wreckage of the future, your call..
 
305_separatist said:
It doesn’t have to completely. Take some pressure off the guy and *adjust*. What we’re doing isn’t working. The game was not a fluke, even FSU the mierda that they are were figuring it out.
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@DMoney says that Beck is best in the shorter, get the ball out, rhythm passing game. Feels to me like we’re not doing that. Lots of long routes, slow developing. Yes there may be an outlet he’s not taking but he’s locked in. Then lots of WR screens. Couple that with the dogmatic approach to pound the middle of the line and we’re not doing Beck/run game any favors.
 
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U_Canes said:
All the talk since our game has placed blame on Dawson and Mario and caveman football. Too predictable running every first down, conservative etc…


But let’s review the actual tape.

Drive 1: Drive started off passing. Play 2 was an unsportsmanlike penalty from Cici which killed the drive. Play 3 another pass and then punt

Drive 2: 1st down deep shot for 30 yards. Next 1st down, another deep shot for 39 and now we’re in a goal line situation where pound it in. But so far the only 1st down we’ve ran on was a 1st n goal.

Drive 3: Start backed inside our own 10. We run the ball for 6 on 1st down, but again another drive killed by an unsportsmanlike penalty. Try another run for minimal gain. Then on 2nd down Beck hits a pass for a 1st down at our 18. We pass again on 1st except this time Beck throws it to the Louisville. So this drive where we started inside our own 10 we did come out running, and would’ve been successful if it wasn’t for a dumb penalty. And then Beck giving it away.

Drive 4: Again starting inside our own 10. Again a drive where we started 1st down another penalty from Bell on a false start making it 1st n long. 1st down it’s a 14 yard pass from Beck followed by a 12 yard 2nd down run. We then run on first down for 0. Then again Beck threw the ball to the wrong team

Drive 5: Passed on 1st down. Then another penalty set us back. Passed again on 2nd for 61. Another first and goal. We run on 1st for nothing followed by 2 failed pass attempts.

But overall on our 10 first downs, we passed 60% of the time. And of the 4 times we ran it on 1st, 2 were first n goal inside their 10. And one was first down inside ours.

We only scored 10 points the 1st half. Because 2 of our 5 drives Beck made bad throws and because penalties kept killing our drives.

The 2nd half was even more lopsided in terms of throwing on 1st down.

Now I do have some questions about some our sets. Lville knew we wanted to throw screens out of those trip sets . And I do have some questions about what value our TEs are bringing. Lofton and Bauman play a lot of snaps, they had 2 catches for 18 yards. And unlike guys like Cam they don’t seem to particularly effective blockers.

Maybe time for more 4 man sets with Moore or Tony Johnson. But we’ve also seen multiple times Lofton or someone open on a check down and Beck not looking for it. Which is ultimately the issue. If we can’t stop the dumb penalties and Beck can’t make it through his progressions before forcing passes to CJ or Toney, we’re screwed.
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How are you accounting for RPO in this analysis?
 
TexasCane90 said:
Elite coaches scheme to playmakers in one on one positions to force that one defender to make the play or watch it blow up into a big one

I have zero clue why Dawson hold on to these plays for dear life… he’s shown he has some very creative wrinkles but he has been so bland
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The entire running scheme seems to be based on the idea that we’re going to maul them. The only time we really seemed to have success doing this was on a wet field. Man it would be great if you could just maul everyone all the time… but no one can and I have no idea why they think they can. No Miami team has ever done this. It’s not Miami football. It’s like the entire identity of the running game is driven by this mindset that our OL is unstoppable and it’s not. Having an OL head coach makes me think his ego cte and stubbornness are major flaws in the offense.
 
swampcougar1 said:
I remember Csonka running right up the middle for over 200 yards over Butkis after Butkis ran his mouth all week
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You sure you were there? I was knee high to a grasshopper back then and even I know it’s spelled Butkus.

Spelling jokes aside, those dolphin teams ran the ball about 75% of the time. I think it was Super Bowl 6 that Griese threw like 8 passes the whole game. Point being, totally different era. Also, I’d be willing to bet you’d see the OL running traps and pulling in addition to Csonka pounding it up the middle. Your point isn’t lost on me.
 
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